Spartanburg Journal Discussion

[hub-city]

This week's journal has an article about downtown's mixed comeback. While some restaurants/bars and retail are thriving, others are still wanting/needing more foot traffic. The biggest concern is up toward Denny's bcause most people are parking and moving about the Morgan Square area. Hopefully when the Johnson building is complete and the apartments in Liberty Square are ready, more people will be walking.

Also an article about St. John street. Nothing really new here...just that the city is looking at how to best develop that area.

TBA:

look to hear about a deal for Upstate technical colleges to share some programs with the Upstate Alliance in order to help lure more jobs...

Union Street is ripe for development... with all the focus on Pine Street expect to see some movement toward there....

The cigar store now has a name. C. Edwards Cigar has put a sign in the window along Church street facing Morgan Square. it says coming soon...

We are all still wondering what happened to the Bijou market?

[Spartan]

I read that the City wants St John St to be the office corridor... I think that the NW corner of the St John and Church would be a great place for a large office tower, but only if there is retail space on the street level.

I wonder what developments are going to Union St? and more importantly, which part? I still think that Union St is a great place for a "Vista" like entertainment district in Spartanburg.

Any updates from this week?

[hub-city]

some TBA's from this past week: (I love the first one)

look for a new "high-end" restaurant coming to downtown.... The location, though, may be a little surprising

the second round of offers for the Beaumont Mill site is due in February... The owners are open to anything

Spartanburg County is developing a conprhensive planning guide

meridian bank is looking to expand it's presence in Spartanburg

[Spartan]

I like that first one. Wny speculation as to where it may go? My guess is somewhere... lofty.

I hope that Beaumont becomes that mixed use/new urbanist type of development. Thats an ideal spot for it. We have a great opportunity to do something right.... now it just needs to happen.

[krazeeboi]

look for a new "high-end" restaurant coming to downtown.... The location, though, may be a little surprising.

[Spartan]

Yeah its probably on Howard Street or something. I want to remain optimistic though.

[hub-city]

There is an article this week about the tax increase on Abby's, Carolina Gallery and Z Place. Ten years ago the building was about to fall down, so the owner got a tax break for the past ten years. now it's time to pay. Abby's tax bill went from $4233 in 2005 to $19682 for 2006. Caroliana Gallery and Z place also saw huge increases causing Z place to close. The bigest thing is they say they didn't see it coming.

Another article talks about how Spartanburg leaders want to create a better economic forcast model for the county. It will be similar to the one the Federal Reserve uses.

Couple of TBA's:

Still talk of a 50 unit condo project coming to downtown....

One issue facing Spartanburg is the need for affordable office space. Groups want to locate, but are having trouble with prices...

[Spartan]

Wow thats a heck of a tax jump. We'll probably see some of those places close up because of that.

The "50 unit" part of that project is new to me.

What are the prices for downtown office space? Anyone know?

[hub-city]

From what I can tell, office space in the downtown CBD is leasing anywhere from $15-20 per sq.ft. How does that compare around the Upstate?

[Spartan]

Thats average. If we were just a bit larger we could get an individual market report like Gville, Cola, and Chas.

• $PSF Rent for downtown class A office space (4Q '06)

• Greenville - 16.48

• Columbia - 19.66

• Charlotte - 22.76

• Charleston - 27.22

Ok, after comparing that list to your numbers, I think we're going to need a more specific number. But if its closer to the $15 PSF range, we should be gold. I don't see why people are saying it costs too much.

Commercial Office Market info on UrbanPlanet

[Spartan]

TBAs this week:

• The City is discussing the idea of redoing the urban code, which would replace zoning downtown. Work continues on the master plan... expect brochures to come out soon that highlight the plan. City Council is expected to consider the plan in May...

• The City will be issueing a tourism map of downtown in the coming weeks. The map will highlight stores and attractions downtown. The goal is to have the maps ready by springtime when a series of conventions come to town...

• City Council is expected to review a development agreement with Carolina Alliance bank on Monday that would add more landscaping to Kennedy Street...

• The city is getting a lot of inquiries about residential downtown...

• Rennovations have started on the former Ann's Wigs store... no word on what may go in there...

There is also an aritlce about the Upstate real estate market... but it focuses on the Upstate as a whole, and not individual cities. My problem with that, for example, where the article talks about Class A office space. Apparantly there is a shortage. But how can that be? Spartanburg has several Class A spaces available, and supposedly they are too pricey (see previous two posts)? Something isn't right here. Thoughts?

[krazeeboi]

All of that sounds really good. I knew it would only be a matter of time until interest was expressed concerning downtown living. I'd like to see something like a mini-CanalSide in Columbia come to DT Spartanburg.

Discussing implementation of an urban code sounds very promising. It really does appear as though the city is taking the recommendations from the charette seriously.

[Spartan]

Developers have been interested in more urban residential units in Spartanburg for a while now. The problem is that they are making these things luxury beyond the level of Spartanburg, and they are choosing very poor sites for their proposed projects. I maintain that if you want urban residents downtown, you need to price it at a level that regular people can afford. Spartanburg is not at the level of Columbia, and people just aren't going to pay that much to live downtown- yet. Start in the middle and move from there. For proof you need only look at the succesful apartments downtown (occupancy percentages in the 90s). These are reasonably plrices units, and people are eating them up....

[roads-scholar]

Developers have been interested in more urban residential units in Spartanburg for a while now. The problem is that they are making these things luxury beyond the level of Spartanburg, and they are choosing very poor sites for their proposed projects. I maintain that if you want urban residents downtown, you need to price it at a level that regular people can afford. Spartanburg is not at the level of Columbia, and people just aren't going to pay that much to live downtown- yet. Start in the middle and move from there. For proof you need only look at the succesful apartments downtown (occupancy percentages in the 90s). These are reasonably plrices units, and people are eating them up....

[krazeeboi]

I think at this point, Spartanburg would do well to have downtown condos/townhomes going for no more than $250K. I think that's very doable for DT Spartanburg.

[roads-scholar]

I think at this point, Spartanburg would do well to have downtown condos/townhomes going for no more than $250K. I think that's very doable for DT Spartanburg.

[Spartan]

The condos a Liberty & Broad are being done by Johnson Development if I'm not mistaken. He knows the Spartanburg market well, so I expect he will do just that. The $250k figure is exactly what I was thinking too. My only problem is that Johnson doesn't build mixed use at all, so this will be a rather useless building. Until the City starts making it mandatory I will be suprised if they change their ways.

[krazeeboi]

^I can't understand how a developer would opt NOT to do mixed-use these days, particularly downtown. Perhaps this may become mandatory or highly encouraged with the possible implementation of the urban code? Someone may need to email the mayor or a city councilperson about this.

[goodbye]

If tourism is ever to become a viable commodity in downtown Spartanburg, mixed-use buildings will be a necessity. I really hope the Chapman Cultural Center turns out to be a tourist draw. As of now, there just aren't enough options to bring people like me into the city very often. You can't rely entirely on restaurants as an attraction, although it is a great place to start.

[goodbye]

TBAs this week:

...

There is also an aritlce about the Upstate real estate market... but it focuses on the Upstate as a whole, and not individual cities. My problem with that, for example, where the article talks about Class A office space. Apparantly there is a shortage. But how can that be? Spartanburg has several Class A spaces available, and supposedly they are too pricey (see previous two posts)? Something isn't right here. Thoughts?

[g-man430]

^^^Does this mean Greenville and/or Spartanburg could get a new office tower finally?

[Spartan]

could be...

[Spartan]

The Spartanburg Journal was dead this week (at least regarding community developments). May as well have been called the "Greenville" Journal.

[emo]

the condos at the liberty/broad site were originally planned to be around $180K, they may have changed the plans since then, but that's what it was about 6 months ago. So, I think they're right on target with that price-point but there were no plans to make it mixed use. hopefully that part will change.

[Spartan]

Thats good to know. Thats a much more reasonable price. They should definitely fill it up. I hope the City is working with Johnson to make it mixes use.