Metro Orlando Headlines

[spenser1058]

Anonymous $1 million gift will jump-start Plaza Live renovations

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-plaza-theater-orlando-donation-20140102,0,7523845.story

 

I recently read an interesting article about the declining fortunes of regional orchestras around the country in The New Republic:

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114221/orchestras-crisis-outreach-ruining-them

 

As a result, this makes the continuing saga of the Orlando Phil all the more interesting. While heaven knows we have had our challenges during the last few years with ballet and opera, the Phil seems to keep chugging along. It's all the more interesting given those who are always saying Orlando is the "Sahara of the Bozarts" when it comes to the arts (almost invariably it seems from former New Yorkers - quick test: just ask them which of Orlando's arts venues they recently visited that served to give them this opinion; they start stuttering they can't be bothered, so just how would they know?).

 

Certainly, the decades-old debate about whether DPAC is resulting in Ross Perot's "giant sucking sound" (leaving many of our local organizations running on fumes), continues. Further, I'll leave it to smileguy and other professionals for their take. I can't help, however, but view this as one more sign that perhaps we've turned yet another corner. The Bach Festival, Morse Gallery, The Polasek Museum and others continue to do us proud.

Edited January 3, 2014 by spenser1058

[FLClarkKent]

Great news about the Phil and the Plaza. Excited to see what they do with the place. It would be great if the city began to direct some attention to this part of downtown (I know, it's not downtown proper, but it's still a downtown neighborhood). Improved lighting, landscaping, signage, etc.

 

As for those who say Orlando has no culture, there's a word for people like that - snobs. Culture abounds in any city or town so long as you are open to experiencing it.

 

 

Anonymous $1 million gift will jump-start Plaza Live renovations

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-plaza-theater-orlando-donation-20140102,0,7523845.story

 

I recently read an interesting article about the declining fortunes of regional orchestras around the country in The New Republic:

 

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114221/orchestras-crisis-outreach-ruining-them

 

As a result, this makes the continuing saga of the Orlando Phil all the more interesting. While heaven knows we have had our challenges during the last few years with ballet and opera, the Phil seems to keep chugging along. It's all the more interesting given those who are always saying Orlando is the "Sahara of the Bozarts" when it comes to the arts (almost invariably it seems from former New Yorkers - quick test: just ask them which of Orlando's arts venues they recently visited that served to give them this opinion; invariably, they start stuttering they can't be bothered, so just how would they know?).

 

Certainly, the decades-old debate about whether DPAC is resulting in Ross Perot's "giant shrinking sound" (leaving many of our local organizations running on fumes), continues. Further, I'll leave it to smileguy and other professionals for their take. I can't help, however, but view this as one more sign that perhaps we've turned yet another corner. The Bach Festival, Morse Gallery, The Polasek Museum and others continue to do us proud.

[spenser1058]

FLClarkKent makes a valuable point about upgrading the Milk District (and I'm sorry, but the ersatz upgrade at the Bumby/Colonial intersection only demonstrated how difficult it is to put lipstick on a pig). When you think about it, there are an amazing number of things along that stretch which are, if not exactly landmarks yet, much beloved by the natives. Not only the Plaza and its sign, but even the TG Lee Dairy (I want the cow back!), Beefy King and the Chase branch, as well as the relatively new but totally retro McD's around the corner. Of course, the mom and pop shops and bars are all making their own little bits of history as well. 

 

Given the success of our Main Street districts thus far, I also wonder if the relative lack of success downtown confirms something also: is the cost of rent so high in most of downtown that there is very little way for independents to thrive anymore? If so, we may need to acknowledge downtown is going to have to gravitate toward chains by default, and that may change the calculus of how it moves forward. I know Craig Ustler avoided chains when leasing Thornton Park Central, and by and large it didn't work. It may be that downtown, which in the initial redevelopment was supposed to be all about "funky" when the costs were so much lower, may need to take a different approach from the other great neighborhoods surrounding it.

Edited January 3, 2014 by spenser1058

[FLClarkKent]

The "rent's too damn high," so to speak. That's what I hear, at least.

 

Also, I think that vibrancy of the surrounding neighborhoods is a hindrance to retail in the downtown core. Sounds weird, I know. But places like College Park, Colonialtown/Mills 50, Lake Ivanhoe, SoDo, the Milk District, and Audobon Park are all doing gangbusters these days. They're a long walk, a short bus trip or car ride away from the downtown core. Why would a retailer want to set up shop in a more expensive location when they can find a place in a vibrant downtown 'hood -- one that draws from essentially the same customer base  -- for far less expense?

 

 

FLClarkKent makes a valuable point about upgrading the Milk District (and I'm sorry, but the ersatz upgrade at the Bumby/Colonial intersection only demonstrated how difficult it is to put lipstick on a pig). When you think about it, there are an amazing number of things along that stretch which are, if not exactly landmarks yet, much beloved by the natives. Not only the Plaza and its sign, but even the TG Lee Dairy (I want the cow back!), Beefy King and the Chase branch, as well as the relatively new but totally retro McD's around the corner. Of course, the mom and pop shops and bars are all making their own little bits of history as well. 

 

Given the success of our Main Street districts thus far, I also wonder if the relative lack of success downtown confirms something also: is the cost of rent so high in most of downtown that there is very little way for independents to thrive anymore? If so, we may need to acknowledge downtown is going to have to gravitate toward chains by default, and that may change the calculus of how it moves forward. I know Craig Ustler avoided chains when leasing Thornton Park Central, and by it large it didn't work. It may be that downtown, which in the initial redevelopment was supposed to be all about "funky" when the costs were so much lower, may need to take a different approach from the other great neighborhoods surrounding it.

[Bungalower-MattBroffman]

Thornton park has very few spaces available...so not sure that the rent is too high. There aren't any current commercial listings that I am aware of for Thornton Park Central. Hue is a change in concept and ULM will do something else (no word what) with the ReThink space. The rents in places like Ivanhoe and College Park can get pretty high too. Milk District has potential but the businesses there just haven't been able to get together for form a non-profit to apply to be a Main Street. I think they are getting close but it just hasn't happened yet.

[spenser1058]

Thornton park has very few spaces available...so not sure that the rent is too high. There aren't any current commercial listings that I am aware of for Thornton Park Central. Hue is a change in concept and ULM will do something else (no word what) with the ReThink space. The rents in places like Ivanhoe and College Park can get pretty high too. Milk District has potential but the businesses there just haven't been able to get together for form a non-profit to apply to be a Main Street. I think they are getting close but it just hasn't happened yet.

Retail in Thornton Park Central has been pretty much a continuous bust since it opened: the Urban Think bookstore, the men's clothing shop I've forgotten the name of, Central City Market. Zou Zou for women has hung on as the exception so far; I've never seen many folks in there, but I don't pretend to understand the profit margins required for women's clothing. Other than that, there have been a parade of retailers at Parkside and in Thornton Park proper (including Dexter's attempt at a grocery when it opened) that never last, and when they do close they're usually replaced by restaurants, bars or salons, all of which have also turned over quite regularly (not to mention Pure at Paramount, which has been taking up space for how long now with its lovely brown paper window coverings?). And of course, in South Eola, no one has really attempted retail other than Mucho's attached liquor store (kudos for that, btw.) Until you can buy the necessities of life here, it's not a downtown, it's an urban theme park. As of today, if you need a pair of underwear or a hammer, you're out of luck unless you leave the neighborhood.

[popsiclebrandon]

Retail in Thornton Park Central has been pretty much a continuous bust since it opened: the Urban Think bookstore, the men's clothing shop I've forgotten the name of, Central City Market. Zou Zou for women has hung on as the exception so far; I've never seen many folks in there, but I don't pretend to understand the profit margins required for women's clothing. Other than that, there have been a parade of retailers at Parkside and in Thornton Park proper (including Dexter's attempt at a grocery when it opened) that never last, and when they do close they're usually replaced by restaurants, bars or salons, all of which have also turned over quite regularly (not to mention Pure at Paramount, which has been taking up space for how long now with its lovely brown paper window coverings?). And of course, in South Eola, no one has really attempted retail other than Mucho's attached liquor store (kudos for that, btw.) Until you can buy the necessities of life here, it's not a downtown, it's an urban theme park. As of today, if you need a pair of underwear or a hammer, you're out of luck unless you leave the neighborhood.

Matt and I actually talked about downtown retail and looked around loopnet. There is virtually nothing available downtown outside Church St Station. I think 4-5 listings pop up for downtown/Thornton. As such the asking rents are not exactly affordable. I think parking is really the achilles heel to most businesses. We have free parking in the garage across the street but still makes it hard for us to bring people outside of downtown in. Thornton Park Central has a real parking issue despite the garage because no one knows about it. No idea what the solution is but if downtown had nice open lots for people I bet you'd see a lot more places last longer. Lower rents wouldn't hurt either.

[spenser1058]

A couple of things come to mind: first, it makes it all the more ironic that the biggest spaces in Thornton Park (Hue, Urban ReThink, Pure, the AltaModa space, World of Beer) all sit empty for months on end while we are in Waiting for Godot mode to have more of the same bars and high-end restaurants that are likely to go under based on their predecessors (World of Beer excepted - I think it might be a keeper). 

 

But let's assume for a moment that all of them succeed when they open at long last. That brings us to Problem 2: if there's a lack of space, could it be we're overrun with too many bars and high-end restaurants that aren't fulfilling the needs of the thousands of people who now live downtown and don't need a parking space?

 

Of course, one might suspect a downtown planning agency might have analyzed such a market failure and proposed a solution of some sort. Have you seen one? I certainly haven't and I've asked. Instead we get the same tired platitudes - the last person at the City who tried to dig around for some answers that I'm aware of was the late Chase Smith when he was still Patty Sheehan's aide and even he didn't get far (unusual because Chase was a whiz at getting answers from the City Hall crowd). Nevertheless, thank you for taking a look - we now are entering our 6th year since Publix opened and all further interest in downtown shopping came to a standstill, even as the Publix gets busier each day.

[AndyPok1]

No idea what the solution is but if downtown had nice open lots for people I bet you'd see a lot more places last longer.

 

I have a HUGE problem with this statement.  Yes, would parking lots help businesses thrive by better accommodating people that want to drive in from the sprawl?  Sure, and as a business owner (and a great one from what I've seen of your shop) you should desire that.  However, parking lots have NO place in a downtown.  Downtown is vertical.  If you want to park, you do it at a meter or in a garage.  

 

Cleveland had/has a big problem with way too many surface lots.  Just now, almost 20 years after they started revitalizing their downtown are they finally getting rid of them with vertical buildout.  Parking lots are a very slippery slope.  Leave them to under I-4 (or in urban settings by including alley ways and including parking behind buildings, a la the Pizza Hut plaza across from SoDo).  

 

Basically, walking around, I should never see your car unless you are driving it or its parked on the street.

[SKK]

I have a HUGE problem with this statement.  Yes, would parking lots help businesses thrive by better accommodating people that want to drive in from the sprawl?  Sure, and as a business owner (and a great one from what I've seen of your shop) you should desire that.  However, parking lots have NO place in a downtown.  Downtown is vertical.  If you want to park, you do it at a meter or in a garage.  

 

Cleveland had/has a big problem with way too many surface lots.  Just now, almost 20 years after they started revitalizing their downtown are they finally getting rid of them with vertical buildout.  Parking lots are a very slippery slope.  Leave them to under I-4 (or in urban settings by including alley ways and including parking behind buildings, a la the Pizza Hut plaza across from SoDo).  

 

Basically, walking around, I should never see your car unless you are driving it or its parked on the street.

I competely agree with this. More parking lots is the last thing I want to see downtown.

[smileguy]

Thornton Park Central has a real parking issue despite the garage because no one knows about it. No idea what the solution is but if downtown had nice open lots for people I bet you'd see a lot more places last longer.

 

You hit it on the head - it's a perception problem, not an actual shortage of parking. I can always find a space to park my scooter downtown (and always  free. I suggest one for people in close-in neighborhoods!)  It is rare that car parking isn't available in Thornton Park or CBD. Eola South can get a little tricky if you don't want to valet, but it only means you have to walk from one of the garages in Thornton Park or street parking in the neighborhood -- the point being there is plenty of parking and it's the perception that needs to be broken.  

 

Urban ReThink had a great piece that outlined parking - maybe the Main Street districts or other groups of business members could come together to distribute a similar piece, include in ads, across websites and social media.

 

Here's the map part of the postcard.  The opposite side had some great narrative about how much parking there is, how far away the farthest point was on the map and what an enjoyable walk it was.  I will see if I can find the rest.

 

[popsiclebrandon]

In theory I hate everything about parking lots downtown too. But unfortunately I've found unless people can visually see an easy parking spot they seem scared. I get calls to the store all the time from people who say they tried to park out front but no spots so they went home. We have a free parking garage 30 seconds away and people don't know or care.

 

I think putting big signs on some of the corners that say where garages are might push people to find and use them. I would love to see Orlando/Post allow putting some signs on the corners outside the dry cleaner and Eden's that says free 20 minute parking in the garage to see how much that may help.

[Bungalower-MattBroffman]

Matt and I actually talked about downtown retail and looked around loopnet. There is virtually nothing available downtown outside Church St Station. I think 4-5 listings pop up for downtown/Thornton. As such the asking rents are not exactly affordable. I think parking is really the achilles heel to most businesses. We have free parking in the garage across the street but still makes it hard for us to bring people outside of downtown in. Thornton Park Central has a real parking issue despite the garage because no one knows about it. No idea what the solution is but if downtown had nice open lots for people I bet you'd see a lot more places last longer. Lower rents wouldn't hurt either.

 

Yes...I think there are def property owners who try to get higher than what they should and therefore it sits empty. But that happens in all of the commercial areas. 

[gibby]

I believe that the on street parking along Church Street will be gone soon, once the Lymmo expansion gets rolling.

[Bungalower-MattBroffman]

I believe that the on street parking along Church Street will be gone soon, once the Lymmo expansion gets rolling.

 

May still be there in the evening...It def looks odd to have a middle stripe and parking in one of the lanes....double checking

[sunshine]

Exclusive: Tupperware seeks Osceola OK for new 100-acre mixed-use project

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/01/exclusive-tupperware-seeks-osceola-ok.html

 

[jack]

FLClarkKent makes a valuable point about upgrading the Milk District (and I'm sorry, but the ersatz upgrade at the Bumby/Colonial intersection only demonstrated how difficult it is to put lipstick on a pig). When you think about it, there are an amazing number of things along that stretch which are, if not exactly landmarks yet, much beloved by the natives. Not only the Plaza and its sign, but even the TG Lee Dairy (I want the cow back!), Beefy King and the Chase branch, as well as the relatively new but totally retro McD's around the corner. Of course, the mom and pop shops and bars are all making their own little bits of history as well. 

 

Given the success of our Main Street districts thus far, I also wonder if the relative lack of success downtown confirms something also: is the cost of rent so high in most of downtown that there is very little way for independents to thrive anymore? If so, we may need to acknowledge downtown is going to have to gravitate toward chains by default, and that may change the calculus of how it moves forward. I know Craig Ustler avoided chains when leasing Thornton Park Central, and by and large it didn't work. It may be that downtown, which in the initial redevelopment was supposed to be all about "funky" when the costs were so much lower, may need to take a different approach from the other great neighborhoods surrounding it.

I think you are absolutely right. High rents and a perceived lack of parking block the average entrepreneur from opening up shop. And we do have vibrant surrounding communities that are competition to downtown. 

[sunshine]

Cant be that high if bars after bars keep opening up....I am asssuming Winter Park rents are higher but

[spenser1058]

There seem to be remarkably low barriers to entry for bars - for whatever reason, I've seen really young guys able to spend enormous amounts of money opening bars that are gone within a few months - I've never quite understood the dynamic of that.

 

What's really interesting to me, though, is that there seem to be a lot of very entrepreneurial young folks opening up resturants and other foodie type establishments, but it's much more unusual to see them opening retail shops. If you think of all the independent clothing stores, drug stores, dime stores, etc., that once existed both downtown and in Main Street-type neighborhoods like College Park, they've mostly all been replaced by bars, restaurants and salons. One wonders if a generation that has never bought hard goods anywhere but a big box even considers it a possibility anymore.

 

I also am in awe of continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. As I walked past the former Altamoda salon today, I watched as, despite its lack of success, the replacement is - yet another salon! We of course have seen that numerous times in South Eola with the parade of overpriced high-concept eateries. One wonders just how many tens of thousands of dollars continue to be spent on the same tired concepts, while those of us who would love to spend money locally for items we need everyday, instead are just sent back to amazon for lack of an alternative. Obviously the folks who keep doing such things know something I don't.

Edited January 7, 2014 by spenser1058

[sunshine]

Downtown Orlando needs some nationwide chain stores. If Ustler is really honest about a chain store trying to go into Hue space, he should let them have it. Everything that are opening in downtown has something to do with beers one way or another...

[popsiclebrandon]

There seem to be remarkably low barriers to entry for bars - for whatever reason, I've seen really young guys able to spend enormous amounts of money opening bars that are gone within a few months - I've never quite understood the dynamic of that.

 

What's really interesting to me, though, is that there seem to be a lot of very entrepreneurial young folks opening up resturants and other foodie type establishments, but it's much more unusual to see them opening retail shops. If you think of all the independent clothing stores, drug stores, dime stores, etc., that once existed both downtown and in Main Street-type neighborhoods like College Park, they've mostly all been replaced by bars, restaurants and salons. One wonders if a generation that has never bought hard goods anywhere but a big box even considers it a possibility anymore.

 

I also am in awe of continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results. As I walked past the former Altamoda salon today, I watched as, despite its lack of success, the replacement is - yet another salon! We of course have seen that numerous times in South Eola with the parade of overpriced high-concept eateries. One wonders just how many tens of thousands of dollars continue to be spent on the same tired concepts, while those of us who would love to spend money locally for items we need everyday, instead are just sent back to amazon for lack of an alternative. Obviously the folks who keep doing such things know something I don't.

UCF has definitely been leading the nation in the bar owner degree program they must have. Pretty much every guy from south Florida came to UCF then decided to open/work at a bar after graduating. The nice thing is a liquor license, once you have one, is always worth a ton of money so if you fail you sell the license and then work on a new bar. Where the initial money comes from who knows?

 

Talked to a friend who owns a boutique and she talked about opening a men's store in Thornton but after no one else had ever made that work she decided the market wasn't there. I really don't see a dedicated men's store working downtown but something like j.crew or something would probably do very well. As much as I like the idea of only locally owned shops and stuff I am beginning to see the benefits of chains. A large chunk of my sales occur between 7-10 when people who eat at local restaurants come in for dessert. If a big chain or two want to come into downtown and start to bring more folks downtown who then in turn discover some of the small local shops we have here then I think everyone wins in that.

 

Specifically on Altamoda space I know Post wants to keep the mix of retail the exact same if they can. They view the retail as an extension of the residential and want to say they have these services located in building to potential residents. Its a smart strategy and one reason they have such high occupancy. So if this salon fails, another will likely take its place. If we fail then wouldn't be surprised if some sort of dessert/bakery type thing come in here next.

[smileguy]

I really don't see a dedicated men's store working downtown but something like j.crew or something would probably do very well. 

 

Don't forget about Siegels! They've been there on Orange Ave for years.

[spenser1058]

Don't forget about Siegels! They've been there on Orange Ave for years.

 

They have indeed, and if I were the DDB I'd be convening a meeting of folks like that, as well as the owners of the local ACE franchise and others to recommend ways to bring more retail downtown. But, then, frankly, the DDB is more content not doing much of anything other than being the "Amen chorus" whenever Buddy trots them out.

[popsiclebrandon]

They have indeed, and if I were the DDB I'd be convening a meeting of folks like that, as well as the owners of the local ACE franchise and others to recommend ways to bring more retail downtown. But, then, frankly, the DDB is more content not doing much of anything other than being the "Amen chorus" whenever Buddy trots them out.

Only issue is some of them may not want more retail coming in and possibly taking business from them.

[spenser1058]

Nice drop: Busch Gardens videos simulate new ride as if you were in Orlando, Miami

 

Great video of downtown O-town in addition to being an d for Falcon's Fury

 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/travel/blogs/theme-park-rangers/os-busch-gardens-falcons-fury-update-010913,0,5583929.post