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Icon on Bond

torgo

By torgo
in Grand Rapids

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Prankster Burg

Prankster

Posted
Posted

I am sure that they are not the fault of the Unions and their rape of big business here... Funny, the same companies that are failing here are doing just fine down South.

The difference, right to work states and the removal of Unions from the workforce.

When will people learn that Unions have effectively priced themselves and their workers out of the market...

Give me a break! Unions are what percentage of the total working population? 20%? 30%? What is it going to take before your Rush Limbaugh dittoheads stop blaming unions for everything? Unions had nothing to do with what happened to Enron, Tyco, HealthSouth, Worldcom, etc. Need I go on? It is a two way street here, and there are crooks on both sides of the fence. Grow up, and realize that your point of view is not always infallable.

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superNOVA Whistle-Stop

superNOVA

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Well, lets see. National average wages are about $13.00/hr.

Union wages at a GM plant in MI average $40.00/hr or more - those are old numbers.

Now, consider this, a company that supports a pension and health care must pay out almost $110.00/hr to support that $40.00/hr worker. See how it adds up now. Yes, Unions increased wages and improved working conditions - but they also created a localized inflation that we are now feeling. Blue Collar workers in MI are used to making almost 4x the national average.

Do they deserve 4x the pay - well considering that they have driven their companies into the ground - NO.

And people wonder why GM and Ford are having problems compete. Delphi summed it up - they haven't made a penny in American plants since 1995. Pretty much have been employing people they could not afford because there is no way the Union would allow cuts. The end result - well - big surprise, bankruptcy.

Funny thin is, the UAW is threatening now to STRIKE. What the hell good is that going to do. Will they ever learn that they are the very root cause of their own demise. I am sure that Delphi will restructure, but it will not be in America. Furthermore, I am sick of Democrats blaming the GOP for sending jobs overseas when it is clearly the fault of Unions and insane wage levels for what amounts to be 'button pushing'.

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MJLO City

MJLO

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I rather resent it being said, that this is "west michigan" therefore you're going to lose an arguement about unions. I daresay the people in this Grand Rapids forum are quite left of center. With that being said it's a question of economics. You learn it, if you take a basic economics class in college. First off let me say, Michigan is the center and brain child for the entire planets Automotive megastructure. More than twenty percent of the entire developed worlds economy is somehow tied into Automotive manufacturing, engineering, research/ developement, or some other support service. Tell me why the cities of Detroit, and Flint, and even to a much smaller degree, Lansing have fallen on such hard times? When they are supercenters to such a vital industry! When unions were first formed, factory laborers, worked 14hr days seven days a week for almost nothing. Corporations broke the backs of common men to amass disgusting fortunes, that was 70 years ago! Times have drastically changed today auto workers make an upper middle class wage, to do a job that realistically should be worth about half as much. The American Auto industry, is imploding on itself because it literally can longer afford to pay it's workers and it's legacy costs.

Let me pause for a moment to clarify something. The Auto industry has brought this upon itself. It agreed to the terms of the union contracts, it was not made to do so. It has also for the better part of 50 years produced unimaginative, unreliable boring fleet vehicles, that are nowhere near as refined as it's foreign counterparts. They simply do not build a better product, and no matter how one falls politically on the scale, one thing remains true, if there is a better product at a cheaper price, it will sell out.

As for Michigan's current economic woes, I find it very naive that anyone would blame Jennifer Granholm or John Engler for them! This state has been on a colision course for disaster since the fifties. For one the complete lack of diversification in the states industries, the uber-over reliance on manufacturing, coupled with the dying iconic entities that once made this state great, now sink it like a two-ton anvil tied to a rowboat. With that said, our situation is not that dire. Unemployment is one of the highest in the nation, but still less than what it was in the early eighties/ late seventies. The states economy is a bit more diviersified than it was. These problems should have been addressed decades ago! Long before anyone in the recent past has governed this state.

Also answer me this question, what good will a labor union do anyone, if there is no longer a "big evil corporation" to provide jobs for it?

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RustTown City

RustTown

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The yin and yang will always be needed. They balance each other out. The balance has to be found, though, because it's currently missing. On one hand, you have corporations like Enron and Worldcom who simply raped and exploited its workers. And then you have the UAW asking for too much. IMO, it is really contingent on what industry we are talking about. Still, I see more corporate abuse (still, in 2005) than I see union abuse.

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Prankster Burg

Prankster

Posted
Posted

Well, lets see. National average wages are about $13.00/hr.

Union wages at a GM plant in MI average $40.00/hr or more - those are old numbers.

Now, consider this, a company that supports a pension and health care must pay out almost $110.00/hr to support that $40.00/hr worker. See how it adds up now. Yes, Unions increased wages and improved working conditions - but they also created a localized inflation that we are now feeling. Blue Collar workers in MI are used to making almost 4x the national average.

Do they deserve 4x the pay - well considering that they have driven their companies into the ground - NO.

And people wonder why GM and Ford are having problems compete. Delphi summed it up - they haven't made a penny in American plants since 1995. Pretty much have been employing people they could not afford because there is no way the Union would allow cuts. The end result - well - big surprise, bankruptcy.

Funny thin is, the UAW is threatening now to STRIKE. What the hell good is that going to do. Will they ever learn that they are the very root cause of their own demise. I am sure that Delphi will restructure, but it will not be in America. Furthermore, I am sick of Democrats blaming the GOP for sending jobs overseas when it is clearly the fault of Unions and insane wage levels for what amounts to be 'button pushing'.

Now these facts are a lot easier to take than just throwing out the "Granholm and unions are the root of all evil" statements in previous posts.

I do not agree with the $40.00/hr statement, because of all the people that I know in the automotive industry, the only ones making that kind of money are the salaried or skilled labor employees (ie - Tool & Die Makers, Millwrights). But in their defense, they have taken a fair amount of schooling and apprenticeship training at a much lower wage to get their Journeymans card.

Again, how is it that higher wages for executives can be justified, but not the employees? Does the common worker have any less at stake if the company tanks than the executive? Unions definately need to be more flexible to their employers needs than they have in the past, but that is already happening. The level of cooperation at most union plants is between hourly and salary is at an all time high, but these are not the things that get reported in the news. It is just the sensational headlines of labor strife and overpayed individuals that get printed.

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jspruit Crossroads

jspruit

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What is the proposed timeline for this project? It seemed like more than a year ago when the previous foundry was demolished and the site still seems to have very little construction activity. I wonder what is more of a visual blight, the old foundry or the blank construciton sites?

grand_rapids_foundry.jpg

IMG_2545.jpg

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fishboy Unincorporated Area

fishboy

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Posted

What is the proposed timeline for this project? It seemed like more than a year ago when the previous foundry was demolished and the site still seems to have very little construction activity. I wonder what is more of a visual blight, the old foundry or the blank construciton sites?

grand_rapids_foundry.jpg

IMG_2545.jpg

The salesperson says 12 to 14 months. They failed to add what day they would begin counting. Who knows the ground breaking is next week.

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jspruit Crossroads

jspruit

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12-14 months-I wonder if this is a date for owner/tenant move-in?, I would assume that is from the beginning of some sort of construction date that they have chosen. I would be surprised if they could finish in that time beginning from today.

Groundbreaking is next week?

Good to see that the community is involved and behind this project:

IMG_2547.jpg

IMG_2548.jpg

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torgo Town

torgo

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IMG_2547.jpg

Sorry to post the image again, but what do those names even mean? The National Automatic Sprinkler Industry Pension Fund? Is this project is being financed by retirement and pension funds? :huh: Or is that just funding for the union laborers? Are there any finance people who could explain how this works (in english, preferably? :D ) Thx in advance ;)

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GaryP Burg

GaryP

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Street talk from the GRBJ was talking about Icon again today. They issue an appology for doubting the Mochs and call Jenny out for playing politics by finally showing up to her first GR groundbreaking ever because she's running against Devos next year. Then they play off our ribbing and sugjest Dome World(which is going out of business) be moved to North Monroe and be renamed Eyesore on Bond...lol!

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torgo Town

torgo

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Street talk from the GRBJ was talking about Icon again today. They issue an appology for doubting the Mochs and call Jenny out for playing politics by finally showing up to her first GR groundbreaking ever because she's running against Devos next year. Then they play off our ribbing and sugjest Dome World(which is going out of business) be moved to North Monroe and be renamed Eyesore on Bond...lol!

If I were the GRBJ I wouldn't apologize for doubting Moch until the project is 100% completed and full of happy tenants...

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GRDadof3 Ecumenopolis

GRDadof3

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This morning the intersection of Bond and Trowbridge Streets is completely blocked -- for the duration I guess. They've also delivered more concrete storm water "vaults" to the site. It's looking like a real project now.

Thanks for the play-by-play allbusiness. That way I don't have to go over there on my morning "project update" rounds. ;)

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torgo Town

torgo

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Thanks for the play-by-play allbusiness. That way I don't have to go over there on my morning "project update" rounds. ;)

Ya, no kidding. I don't even have to walk across the office any more! :D My chair is getting a nice groove now. :P

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torgo Town

torgo

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Oooohh....and the circus has come to town! (Big tent on the site now)

But wait, the circus is tomorrow at 3PM....

I hope Moch hired guys with shovels to clean up all the bulls*** that will be going on there tomorrow! I'll hafta peek outside at 3 and see what's going on...I gotta remember to bring the camera

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