Fayetteville, Arkansas

[cocothief]

Yeah even though I've been big on having affordable housing in Fayetteville. I guess I've been thinking of it on those lines and just thinking that realistically people will probably have to look elsewhere like Springdale if they want cheaper housing. But I still hope to avoid becoming more like Santa Fe. Where it's very expensive to live and it's now mainly just rich people from both coasts who own most of the homes there now.

See I think Fayetteville is a LONG way from anything like that ever happening here.

We have TONS of cheap apartments. For those who want to own homes, I was driving around south Fayetteville today and saw a lot of cheap older housing. Not ideal for some, but IN Fayetteville, close to parks and convenient to downtown and anywhere one might work in Fayetteville.

Now everybody can't afford to live in Goshen, or in Washington Willow, but I really don't see this "lack of attainable housing" as some kind of emergency situation for Fayetteville, especially not to the point that it needs to be enforced by some more cumbersome planning requirements.

Again, I see this as a city council full of sheltered, unrealistic idealists. Heck, find a decent NEW home in Springdale for 90k. Even that is a stretch these days.

If the home attainability measure is tied to median household income, it will inevitably be very skewed due to the fact that a sizeable percentage of Fayetteville residents are non or part-time employed college students. Or does the City Council think part-time working 20-something college students need to be able to buy a home here too? I wouldn't be surprised....

[mzweig]

Yeah I wonder how they'll handle all of that. If they make something cheap enough for others to buy what's to keep someone else from buying it then selling it at a higher price to make a profit on it?

They do a lot of this in the northeast where I have seen "starter homes" advertised for $800K. Here's how it works there. The developer wants to build a subdivision or condo complex. They want to do higher density than zoning allows because that will make them more money. In order to make this happen, the developer agrees to build so many units that are "affordable." This generally meant between $100-120K. These are sold to people who enter a lottery put on by the community. There are income restrictions and single parents are given first preference as well as people who grew up in that city or town and who want to come back there. These units then have a deed restriction which prohibits them from being sold at a profit. They have to be sold back through the town to the next person on the list at cost. No profit-taking is allowed. I have a friend--a woman who was in her 30s with two kids--who got a house in the town she grew up in--a new 2000 square foot colonial--for $102K--when the rest of the houses in the subdivision were $600K+. She was one of four people out of hundreds in the lottery for that particular development. She got to pick out everything and today, the house should be worth $800K but if she were to sell it she could only get $102K for it because that's the deed restriction. So she will likely never sell it. She was divorced at the time with two kids and has since remarried. She and her husband now make $80-$100K per year but will always live cheap in this house. It gave her and her girls a second chance to live a good life. The developer got what they wanted and so did the town (affordable housing). So that's how it is done.....

[mzweig]

One thing I thought I would mention to y'all--this Saturday is the Washington Elementary "Tour of Homes" here in Fayetteville. Runs from noon to 5 pm. There will be a lot of cool houses that you can walk through. My house, art studio, and guest house at 59 E. Prospect--our kitchen was just photographed all day yesterday for a new book coming out from Better Homes and Gardens-- will be on the tour. Going on this tour has become a tradition for the families of new graduates from the U of A.

[cocothief]

They do a lot of this in the northeast where I have seen "starter homes" advertised for $800K. Here's how it works there. The developer wants to build a subdivision or condo complex. They want to do higher density than zoning allows because that will make them more money. In order to make this happen, the developer agrees to build so many units that are "affordable." This generally meant between $100-120K. These are sold to people who enter a lottery put on by the community. There are income restrictions and single parents are given first preference as well as people who grew up in that city or town and who want to come back there. These units then have a deed restriction which prohibits them from being sold at a profit. They have to be sold back through the town to the next person on the list at cost. No profit-taking is allowed. I have a friend--a woman who was in her 30s with two kids--who got a house in the town she grew up in--a new 2000 square foot colonial--for $102K--when the rest of the houses in the subdivision were $600K+. She was one of four people out of hundreds in the lottery for that particular development. She got to pick out everything and today, the house should be worth $800K but if she were to sell it she could only get $102K for it because that's the deed restriction. So she will likely never sell it. She was divorced at the time with two kids and has since remarried. She and her husband now make $80-$100K per year but will always live cheap in this house. It gave her and her girls a second chance to live a good life. The developer got what they wanted and so did the town (affordable housing). So that's how it is done.....

That's interesting. Thanks for the explanation on how it all works.

Your example reinforces to me, though, that this is being prematurely brought up in Fayetteville.

We aren't anywhere near to being as un-affordable as most places that install these measures.

But, I suppose its more of a longer term planning thing than anything else.

Too bad you can't go to the city council and explain to them how it works in plain English.

No, instead we'll be treated to a couple of hours of circuitous stubborn interrogration and slack-jawed mock-surprise and sarcasm by half of the alderPERSONS.

I swear, Jeremy Pate deserves a steak dinner and a round of beer after every meeting he goes through with these folks.

[Mith242]

They do a lot of this in the northeast where I have seen "starter homes" advertised for $800K. Here's how it works there. The developer wants to build a subdivision or condo complex. They want to do higher density than zoning allows because that will make them more money. In order to make this happen, the developer agrees to build so many units that are "affordable." This generally meant between $100-120K. These are sold to people who enter a lottery put on by the community. There are income restrictions and single parents are given first preference as well as people who grew up in that city or town and who want to come back there. These units then have a deed restriction which prohibits them from being sold at a profit. They have to be sold back through the town to the next person on the list at cost. No profit-taking is allowed. I have a friend--a woman who was in her 30s with two kids--who got a house in the town she grew up in--a new 2000 square foot colonial--for $102K--when the rest of the houses in the subdivision were $600K+. She was one of four people out of hundreds in the lottery for that particular development. She got to pick out everything and today, the house should be worth $800K but if she were to sell it she could only get $102K for it because that's the deed restriction. So she will likely never sell it. She was divorced at the time with two kids and has since remarried. She and her husband now make $80-$100K per year but will always live cheap in this house. It gave her and her girls a second chance to live a good life. The developer got what they wanted and so did the town (affordable housing). So that's how it is done.....

Thanks for that info Mark. I didn't know things worked out that way.

One thing I thought I would mention to y'all--this Saturday is the Washington Elementary "Tour of Homes" here in Fayetteville. Runs from noon to 5 pm. There will be a lot of cool houses that you can walk through. My house, art studio, and guest house at 59 E. Prospect--our kitchen was just photographed all day yesterday for a new book coming out from Better Homes and Gardens-- will be on the tour. Going on this tour has become a tradition for the families of new graduates from the U of A.

Unfortunately I'm going to be out of town this weekend. Thanks for the info anyway though. I hadn't heard about it.

[bagelw]

One thing I thought I would mention to y'all--this Saturday is the Washington Elementary "Tour of Homes" here in Fayetteville. Runs from noon to 5 pm. There will be a lot of cool houses that you can walk through. My house, art studio, and guest house at 59 E. Prospect--our kitchen was just photographed all day yesterday for a new book coming out from Better Homes and Gardens-- will be on the tour. Going on this tour has become a tradition for the families of new graduates from the U of A.

You have any more info on this? Do you just show up at Washington Elementary at a certain time or do you need to sign up?

[astrife]

I know that "affordable housing" is an ideal that many towns and cities across the nation have policies to aid, but to me that seems to be flirting a little too much with socialism. I don't think that the government (ie. the fayetteville city council) has the responsibility or the authority to tell a developer that the house they build on a piece of land they own can only be worth so much.

[Mith242]

In other Fayetteville news, the AHTD wants comments on the future widening of Hwy 265. Mainly they want comments on whether to have a center median making it more of a boulevard or to allow a turn lane from Crossover northward to the city border with Springdale. Not surprisingly many residents who live in that area don't like the idea of a median which would make them have to go farther.

[itk]

In other Fayetteville news, the AHTD wants comments on the future widening of Hwy 265. Mainly they want comments on whether to have a center median making it more of a boulevard or to allow a turn lane from Crossover northward to the city border with Springdale. Not surprisingly many residents who live in that area don't like the idea of a median which would make them have to go farther.

That's not what I heard. The article I read quotes one or two people. That hardly constitutes as "many". (Not to sound like I'm picking on you )

[Mith242]

That's not what I heard. The article I read quotes one or two people. That hardly constitutes as "many". (Not to sound like I'm picking on you )

Sorry, I wasn't referring to just the article. I know some people (friends and coworkers) who live over there that aren't for the median as well. Personally I like the idea, but I admit I don't live over there and could see a median being an inconvenience. Although I'd probably still be for it if I felt it was an 'improvement' to the area. But I could see people not being happy with it.

[mzweig]

You have any more info on this? Do you just show up at Washington Elementary at a certain time or do you need to sign up?

Tickets are sold at any of the houses on the tour (they all have signs in front of them) or at French Metro antiques on Dickson. They generally have about 400-450 people buy tickets.

You have any more info on this? Do you just show up at Washington Elementary at a certain time or do you need to sign up?

Tickets are sold at any of the houses on the tour (they all have signs in front of them) or at French Metro antiques on Dickson. They generally have about 400-450 people buy tickets.

I know that "affordable housing" is an ideal that many towns and cities across the nation have policies to aid, but to me that seems to be flirting a little too much with socialism. I don't think that the government (ie. the fayetteville city council) has the responsibility or the authority to tell a developer that the house they build on a piece of land they own can only be worth so much.

You have to remember that this is only in situations where they are allowing the developer to do something that would not normally be allowed on that land. For example, let's say they let the developer put 14 condos on two single-family lots. Having a few of those designated as "affordable" units is how the city/town lets them do the project.

[strmchsr77]

Sorry, I wasn't referring to just the article. I know some people (friends and coworkers) who live over there that aren't for the median as well. Personally I like the idea, but I admit I don't live over there and could see a median being an inconvenience. Although I'd probably still be for it if I felt it was an 'improvement' to the area. But I could see people not being happy with it.

I read the article too, and I can see the side of the people that live on the Cul du sacs off of Crossover. It would really make it a pain to have to always turn right to be able to go north. Or go farther north to come back south to get to their street. I also don't understand why the city has allowed this type of development along the Hwy. There are 2 new ones going in, one across from Candlewood and one just north of it. I always thought that the city wanted more access points and connectivity.

[cowbreath]

I read the article too, and I can see the side of the people that live on the Cul du sacs off of Crossover. It would really make it a pain to have to always turn right to be able to go north. Or go farther north to come back south to get to their street. I also don't understand why the city has allowed this type of development along the Hwy. There are 2 new ones going in, one across from Candlewood and one just north of it. I always thought that the city wanted more access points and connectivity.

I think it's sad that our best connectivity and platting came probably when our town was founded.

[Mith242]

I forgot to mention this yesterday but Airfest has been cancelled. With fuel costs going up so much, especially the type used by aircraft it's just not feasible to do it anymore.

[strmchsr77]

I forgot to mention this yesterday but Airfest has been cancelled. With fuel costs going up so much, especially the type used by aircraft it's just not feasible to do it anymore.

It is going to be replaced by something called "Plains, Trains, and Automobiles." I am not too sure how this new show will run or what it consists of exactly...besides plains, trains, and autos.

[masons_dad1]

I forgot to mention this yesterday but Airfest has been cancelled. With fuel costs going up so much, especially the type used by aircraft it's just not feasible to do it anymore.

That sucks! It's only my favorite annual event in NWA. But, at least we still have the Turpentine Creek Native American Powwow in June.

It is going to be replaced by something called "Plains, Trains, and Automobiles." I am not too sure how this new show will run or what it consists of exactly...besides plains, trains, and autos.

That could be interesting, but without flying planes it may not be worthwhile. Not when you can already see grounded planes and military vehicles at the Arkansas Air Museum and Ozark Military Museum at Drake Field.

[Mith242]

I forgot to mention this before, but there still could be a future science museum. But it sounds like a possible location is rather open. They said they would be looking to be where people most wanted it. While I'm sure many of us would hope that would be Fayetteville it's hard to rule out areas of Benton County. I'd really like to see it somewhere in the downtown/Dickson area. But I don't think anyone should count out Benton County. Fayetteville might need to get it's act together to make it the most attractive location.

[bobhazor]

At this point, wouldn't it make more sense to put it in Bentonville. With Crystal bridges coming online in 2009, it would be nice to have a few other attractions clustered together. Come to Bentonville for the museums and come to Fayetteville for the entertainment.

[strmchsr77]

I still think that the Dickson street area would be the best place for the museum. With the university students nearby and the entertainment aspect. This would help bring even more people to that area and help all of the restaurants and bars. I don't know if it would have as much of an impact that the WAC had on Dickson but it couldn't hurt.

[Mith242]

Yeah of course I'm biased on this because I live in Fayetteville but I also prefer the museum to be in Fayetteville. I think it could better team up with the university. Especially if it's built in the general vicinity of the WAC. It would make it a short trip over to the museum from the university. I hate to think about it but what if the museum goes to Benton County and if the WAC ultimately decides to move to a larger location and also ends up in Benton County as well? Then you would be setting things up like Bob mentioned. I hope it doesn't end up that way but I can see it happening. As I mentioned in Renaissance topic. I like the idea of the museum being around the area of the Walton Arts Center and Fayetteville Public Library. Try to set up an arts district around that area.

[cocothief]

Yeah of course I'm biased on this because I live in Fayetteville but I also prefer the museum to be in Fayetteville. I think it could better team up with the university. Especially if it's built in the general vicinity of the WAC. It would make it a short trip over to the museum from the university. I hate to think about it but what if the museum goes to Benton County and if the WAC ultimately decides to move to a larger location and also ends up in Benton County as well? Then you would be setting things up like Bob mentioned. I hope it doesn't end up that way but I can see it happening. As I mentioned in Renaissance topic. I like the idea of the museum being around the area of the Walton Arts Center and Fayetteville Public Library. Try to set up an arts district around that area.

WAC down west street to the Mill District has the potential to be a real cultural district.

Putting it on part of the current public parking area would make sense.

Perhaps the city of Fayetteville could get involved and incorporate the new parking structure into this.

Imagine being able to walk, or bike down the trails or sidewalks from Dickson and the University to the Mill District with the library, WAC, and a museum or two all within reach.

As well as the dining and entertainment options already available. This location would be improved by a museum, but the museum itself would generate a lot more visitors by pulling in people who are in the area to do other things already. A night at the WAC preceded by dinner on Dickson and a stroll through the museum. A Saturday afternoon downtown with the kids to check out library books, and a swing by the museum...

If Bentonville had more of a cultural area, I'd be for it. But Fayetteville has the infrastructure to create a real cultural district for NWA currently.

[strmchsr77]

WAC down west street to the Mill District has the potential to be a real cultural district.

Putting it on part of the current public parking area would make sense.

Perhaps the city of Fayetteville could get involved and incorporate the new parking structure into this.

Imagine being able to walk, or bike down the trails or sidewalks from Dickson and the University to the Mill District with the library, WAC, and a museum or two all within reach.

As well as the dining and entertainment options already available. This location would be improved by a museum, but the museum itself would generate a lot more visitors by pulling in people who are in the area to do other things already. A night at the WAC preceded by dinner on Dickson and a stroll through the museum. A Saturday afternoon downtown with the kids to check out library books, and a swing by the museum...

If Bentonville had more of a cultural area, I'd be for it. But Fayetteville has the infrastructure to create a real cultural district for NWA currently.

It would be very nice to have to mill district, Dickson, and the square tied together. They keep mentioning having the square tied to Dickson and the Divinity would have really helped that. Another row of restaurants and bars running up Block along with some lighting and ped friendly areas would work well.

[Mith242]

I like these ideas, but I keep hearing more about the possibility of the museum going to Bentonville. Of course nothing will be decided anytime soon. But the little article I read almost made Fayetteville and Dickson St sound like an afterthought to visitors in our metro. This worries me.

[masons_dad1]

I like these ideas, but I keep hearing more about the possibility of the museum going to Bentonville. Of course nothing will be decided anytime soon. But the little article I read almost made Fayetteville and Dickson St sound like an afterthought to visitors in our metro. This worries me.

Even if Fayetteville doesn't get the museums there's still the attraction of Dickson Street and the Fayetteville Square. Fayetteville Tourism could just set up tour buses to Bentonville for people wanting to visit the museums. People staying in Fayetteville wouldn't need a rental car at all, whereas they would if they stay in Bentonville or Rogers. The main problem would be getting visitors to stay in Fayetteville when visitors will be flying into Bentonville. Most likely setting up airport shuttles for Fayetteville hotels would be a good option. It might also be an attractive option if some of the condos in Fayettevile, especially on Dickson St would be used as timeshares.

[Mith242]

Yeah, I guess it's just hard for some of us Fayetteville residents to get used to not being the center of attention anymore in NWA. On your other note, I wonder how long before someone does seriously think about trying to do some timeshares here in NWA.