MAGIC RANT THREAD

[orange87]

YOU'RE WELCOME!

[HankStrong]

I HATE THE MAGIC!

I HATE THEM!

I HATE ALL THE ORLANDO MAGIC IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

[angela1117]

I have happy memories of taking our kids to games during the Shaq, Penny/dad's company has season tickets that they shared with the employees years.

The Horace Grant goggles on a building downtown (city hall? gosh, I miss @spenser1058, he would've remembered all that) were fun.

Geez, I feel old!

[jrs2]

Kudos.  @JFW657because I agree with most of what you posted about the Magic and sports in general.

Spenser knows this more than anyone ala the Gators versus stuff; And Spenser disliked the Magic for more reasons that I think had to do with politics and Amway etc, @Uncommon, and @dcluley98, and @shardoon, and @AndyPok1, and @jgardnerucfand whomever else I forgot to ping.

Yeah, I might be wrong a bout one or two things I wrote about, but with regards to the cake and circus, you are correct, JFW, and a buddy of mine (a democrat) threw that concept out at me back when I was in college and I was like...wtf is your problem?... But as the years passed, I started to realize the truth in that.

So you try to strike a balance...you're a fan, but realize deep down what it's really about at the same time...

But, JFW, I've applied that concept to politics regardless of what you read in my posts; red versus blue is no different; it's sports-i-fied politics.

peace...

And I shouldn't have written an essay in the CSP thread about The Magic...

[Uncommon]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Kudos.  @JFW657because I agree with most of what you posted about the Magic and sports in general.

Spenser knows this more than anyone ala the Gators versus stuff; And Spenser disliked the Magic for more reasons that I think had to do with politics and Amway etc, @Uncommon, and @dcluley98, and @shardoon, and @AndyPok1, and @jgardnerucfand whomever else I forgot to ping.

Yeah, I might be wrong a bout one or two things I wrote about, but with regards to the cake and circus, you are correct, JFW, and a buddy of mine (a democrat) threw that concept out at me back when I was in college and I was like...wtf is your problem?... But as the years passed, I started to realize the truth in that.

So you try to strike a balance...you're a fan, but realize deep down what it's really about at the same time...

But, JFW, I've applied that concept to politics regardless of what you read in my posts; red versus blue is no different; it's sports-i-fied politics.

peace...

And I shouldn't have written an essay in the CSP thread about The Magic...

I was getting ready to reply to @JFW657 also saying I agree 100% with his last comment about how people tend to validate their own lives through their sports teams but I decided to let it go and not continue to detail that thread. For me, I think it has more to do with validating and bringing awareness to the city of Orlando more than validating my and success. Just look what winning and Tom Brady did for Tampa. In part due to Vinik, Tampa has been legitimized and is now squarely on the map and now generally thought of as a top place to live. Sure, it's not all because of sports, but it bought a lot of positive exposure to the area. The Magic can do more of the same, I feel. And I honestly believe they are on the path to bringing some legitimacy to Orlando as a sports city and region independent of Mickey Mouse.

[HankStrong]

16 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I HATE THE MAGIC!

I HATE THEM!

I HATE ALL THE ORLANDO MAGIC IN THE WHOLE WORLD!

Just in case someone didn't get the reference.

[JFW657]

13 hours ago, Uncommon said:

I was getting ready to reply to @JFW657 also saying I agree 100% with his last comment about how people tend to validate their own lives through their sports teams but I decided to let it go and not continue to detail that thread. For me, I think it has more to do with validating and bringing awareness to the city of Orlando more than validating my and success. Just look what winning and Tom Brady did for Tampa. In part due to Vinik, Tampa has been legitimized and is now squarely on the map and now generally thought of as a top place to live. Sure, it's not all because of sports, but it bought a lot of positive exposure to the area. The Magic can do more of the same, I feel. And I honestly believe they are on the path to bringing some legitimacy to Orlando as a sports city and region independent of Mickey Mouse.

Agreed. And that's why I'm glad they're here, even if they aren't perennial champions.

Just having a pro sports team validates a city in terms of perception. There are bigger and/or more urban cities than Orlando, but because they don't have professional sports teams, people kind of regard them as minor league cities.

Columbus, Ohio is a good example.

But I was referencing those people who seem to take it personally and get angry at the front office personnel for "not delivering" or for making what turned out in the end, to have been bad decisions. I'm sure these folks feel like they're basing their umbrage on solid "inside baseball" reporting that they've followed and read in various publications or discussion groups, but in all honesty, unless one was right there in the front office working side by side with these team officials, knowing them personally and developing an intimate understanding of which factors affected their reasoning, it's pretty meaningless for casual, outside observers and fans to lay blame and hold them in contempt over the performance of the team or individual players or coaches. 

As someone said, it's all basically a crap shoot. 

JMHO.  

[JFW657]

16 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Kudos.  @JFW657because I agree with most of what you posted about the Magic and sports in general.

Spenser knows this more than anyone ala the Gators versus stuff; And Spenser disliked the Magic for more reasons that I think had to do with politics and Amway etc, @Uncommon, and @dcluley98, and @shardoon, and @AndyPok1, and @jgardnerucfand whomever else I forgot to ping.

Yeah, I might be wrong a bout one or two things I wrote about, but with regards to the cake and circus, you are correct, JFW, and a buddy of mine (a democrat) threw that concept out at me back when I was in college and I was like...wtf is your problem?... But as the years passed, I started to realize the truth in that.

So you try to strike a balance...you're a fan, but realize deep down what it's really about at the same time...

But, JFW, I've applied that concept to politics regardless of what you read in my posts; red versus blue is no different; it's sports-i-fied politics.

peace...

And I shouldn't have written an essay in the CSP thread about The Magic...

Absolutely.

The more extreme one is in their ideology and beliefs, the more one puts on the team uniform and wears the team colors.... 

 

....and the more they are convinced of the infallibility of their side's reasoning.

 

 

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Agreed. And that's why I'm glad they're here, even if they aren't perennial champions.

Just having a pro sports team validates a city in terms of perception. There are bigger and/or more urban cities than Orlando, but because they don't have professional sports teams, people kind of regard them as minor league cities.

Columbus, Ohio is a good example.

But I was referencing those people who seem to take it personally and get angry at the front office personnel for "not delivering" or for making what turned out in the end, to have been bad decisions. I'm sure these folks feel like they're basing their umbrage on solid "inside baseball" reporting that they've followed and read in various publications or discussion groups, but in all honesty, unless one was right there in the front office working side by side with these team officials, knowing them personally and developing an intimate understanding of which factors affected their reasoning, it's pretty meaningless for casual, outside observers and fans to lay blame and hold them in contempt over the performance of the team or individual players or coaches. 

As someone said, it's all basically a crap shoot. 

JMHO.  

you're right about conjecture versus being there during the decision-making...crap shoot- what, the ten worst teams do a lottery to get the No.1 draft pick?

having them here is good for the perception factor.  My gripe is the marketing they do (regarding the team getting better), which is hype marketing, which is what they have to do as a team.  They sell hope.  I guess a lot of entities do.  But hope without results eventually draws criticism.  couple that with their real estate venture (or current mis-ad-venture) and you see a pattern.  Kind of like that whole rhetoric about the attention seekers placing articles in the OBJ at strategic times...the Magic being one of them of course.

[F-L-A]

On 4/2/2023 at 8:22 PM, Uncommon said:

If this is because people hate the DeVos family due to Amway or politics, then I have nothing to say about that. Hate away as long as you recognize the hate is for off-the-court reasons.

But if you or anyone else thinks these men have a significant say in the moves the Magic make day-to-day, like free agent signings, draft picks, roster construction, starters vs bench players, coaching, and more on-the-court products, then I'll say I HIGHLY disagree, but I'll play ball anyway: Alex Martins was hired as CEO in 2006. Before he was hired, the Magic averaged a mediocre 38 wins the previous 8 seasons. Immediately upon his hiring, they reeled off 52 wins, 59 wins, 59 wins again, and then 52 wins, including 1 Finals berth. If he gets the blame for the Magic failures, does he also get the credit for their immediate success?

So does Martins also get a pass for that big, empty lot sitting adjacent to the Amway Center? Because I'll give you one guess whose responsibility that was. He isn't just a failure on the court. Speaking of which, the Magic drafted Dwight Howard in 2004 and were well on their way before he ever became CEO. He was dropped into a lucky situation he had no  sway over and has been an abject failure ever since. 

As for DeVos, the entire clan needs to just go away. I'll be ecstatic the day the team is sold. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by F-L-A

[Uncommon]

7 hours ago, F-L-A said:

So does Martins also get a pass for that big, empty lot sitting adjacent to the Amway Center? Because I'll give you one guess whose responsibility that was. He isn't just a failure on the court. Speaking of which, the Magic drafted Dwight Howard in 2004 and were well on their way before he ever became CEO. He was dropped into a lucky situation he had no  sway over and has been an abject failure ever since. 

As for DeVos, the entire clan needs to just go away. I'll be ecstatic the day the team is sold. 

Once again, I don't judge him for off-the-court stuff. I couldn't care less about the DeVos family, what they do or did or whatever else you may hate them for. I care about about the product on the floor. So yes, I despise that the lot has been empty for a decade and he probably gets the blame for it but that has absolutely no bearing on what I think of him as a Magic employee whose goal it is to create a championship team. I love the direction the team is going and I do believe they're in prime position to seriously compete moving ahead.

As far as the Magic being well on their way, that's a joke. They averaged 32 wins the 3 seasons from 2004-2006. He was hired, he cleaned shop and jettisoned dead weight players like Steve Francis and Grant Hill, cleared lots of cap space to sign Rashard Lewis, and boom, they finally have a true breakout and get to 50 wins. That's not a coincidence no matter how you try to dice it. I understand off-the-court stuff makes you loath the man and his entire "clan," but at least be able to have a teeny bit of objectivity to assign him credit for team success if you're going to levy blame on him for team failures. 

[shardoon]

43 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Once again, I don't judge him for off-the-court stuff. I couldn't care less about the DeVos family, what they do or did or whatever else you may hate them for. I care about about the product on the floor. So yes, I despise that the lot has been empty for a decade and he probably gets the blame for it but that has absolutely no bearing on what I think of him as a Magic employee whose goal it is to create a championship team. I love the direction the team is going and I do believe they're in prime position to seriously compete moving ahead.

As far as the Magic being well on their way, that's a joke. They averaged 32 wins the 3 seasons from 2004-2006. He was hired, he cleaned shop and jettisoned dead weight players like Steve Francis and Grant Hill, cleared lots of cap space to sign Rashard Lewis, and boom, they finally have a true breakout and get to 50 wins. That's not a coincidence no matter how you try to dice it. I understand off-the-court stuff makes you loath the man and his entire "clan," but at least be able to have a teeny bit of objectivity to assign him credit for team success if you're going to levy blame on him for team failures. 

So after last night, they formally missed the playoffs. The only thing I will give credit to the executives are that they never whiff on a #1 pick. Outside of that, their track record isn't that good via the draft. If they don't attract a great free agent over the next 3 years, I'm afraid our current teams ceiling is 40 to 45 wins and a 8 to 6 seed playoff team bounced in the first round. You will then start seeing the locker room crack and then one of our main pieces, either Banchero or Wagner traded for "assets." You can mix in a coaching change along the way.  This promise of the future looking bright had been watched before. I'll have no problem coming back to this thread in a few years to eat crow only if you agree to as well. 

[Uncommon]

4 hours ago, shardoon said:

So after last night, they formally missed the playoffs. The only thing I will give credit to the executives are that they never whiff on a #1 pick. Outside of that, their track record isn't that good via the draft. If they don't attract a great free agent over the next 3 years, I'm afraid our current teams ceiling is 40 to 45 wins and a 8 to 6 seed playoff team bounced in the first round. You will then start seeing the locker room crack and then one of our main pieces, either Banchero or Wagner traded for "assets." You can mix in a coaching change along the way.  This promise of the future looking bright had been watched before. I'll have no problem coming back to this thread in a few years to eat crow only if you agree to as well. 

I am happy to come back to this thread. This doom-and-gloom outlook is so tired but a part of me gets it when the team has been bad to mediocre for so long.

To have lasted until the very end of the season to be eliminated from playoff contention is a net positive from one of the youngest teams in the league. It's baffling that you're able to make all these complaints but not even be willing to give credit where it's due, considering a 29-27 record since January from a team full of sub-25 year olds.

And then to literally dogmatically predict a ceiling in year 2 of the rebuild in addition to locker room dissension and our top pieces being traded during their ROOKIE contracts when they're at their cheapest is pretty sad. Forget eating crow; you may need to renounce your fandom lol otherwise you run the risk of being fairweather and bandwagon hopping.

[shardoon]

6 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

I am happy to come back to this thread. This doom-and-gloom outlook is so tired but a part of me gets it when the team has been bad to mediocre for so long.

To have lasted until the very end of the season to be eliminated from playoff contention is a net positive from one of the youngest teams in the league. It's baffling that you're able to make all these complaints but not even be willing to give credit where it's due, considering a 29-27 record since January from a team full of sub-25 year olds.

And then to literally dogmatically predict a ceiling in year 2 of the rebuild in addition to locker room dissension and our top pieces being traded during their ROOKIE contracts when they're at their cheapest is pretty sad. Forget eating crow; you may need to renounce your fandom lol otherwise you run the risk of being fairweather and bandwagon hopping.

Not renouncing anything. I have been a magic fan since moving to Orlando as a middle schooler in 1994. I have had lower bowl Mercedes lounge access season tickets from the opening of Amway to 2015. We gave it up after all they seemed to do was cutback on benefits and raise their prices while the product was promise, rebuild, promise, blow it up and start another rebuild. Call me jaded. I have been through the jungle with this team, and everyone has their limit of staying positive.  I have reached mine a few years ago. 

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, F-L-A said:

So does Martins also get a pass for that big, empty lot sitting adjacent to the Amway Center? Because I'll give you one guess whose responsibility that was. He isn't just a failure on the court. Speaking of which, the Magic drafted Dwight Howard in 2004 and were well on their way before he ever became CEO. He was dropped into a lucky situation he had no  sway over and has been an abject failure ever since. 

As for DeVos, the entire clan needs to just go away. I'll be ecstatic the day the team is sold. 

Hey, this deranged poster agrees with you!

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

I am happy to come back to this thread. This doom-and-gloom outlook is so tired but a part of me gets it when the team has been bad to mediocre for so long.

To have lasted until the very end of the season to be eliminated from playoff contention is a net positive from one of the youngest teams in the league. It's baffling that you're able to make all these complaints but not even be willing to give credit where it's due, considering a 29-27 record since January from a team full of sub-25 year olds.

And then to literally dogmatically predict a ceiling in year 2 of the rebuild in addition to locker room dissension and our top pieces being traded during their ROOKIE contracts when they're at their cheapest is pretty sad. Forget eating crow; you may need to renounce your fandom lol otherwise you run the risk of being fairweather and bandwagon hopping.

The Gators had a net positive too...becoming bowl elligible just to get their a55e5 handed to them in a Nothing Bowl.  Their "bog potential" QB sat out of that game.

But it has to do with the product on the field.  Listen, people criticize the Miami Hurricane fans all the time for being fair weather fans.  What people don't see, is that there's a point where fans see how the management isn't doing the right things to field a winner, but still expects support from the fans.  That's when the fans start to check out.  And that's what forces management to make bold moves to field a winner.

If The Magic were doing the right things, then why all the hype talk last year of Shaq considering becoming their new owner?  It was put out there b/c The Magic suck.  They're lucky I don't refer to them as The Tragic like a lot of people do.  Actually, do you know when the first time was when I heard that (The Tragic)?  It was around 2002.  Yeah.  They had that moniker back then.  And that was before the McGrady and Howard crashes and burns.

[jrs2]

I can't rant right now because The Magic are an NBA Playoff team right now.