IN PROGRESS: Capitol Cove

[runawayjim]

No but are they currently homeless? Mike, Jerry's point is well taken. This area is already ripe with graffitti, and some vacant apartments won't help. These East side doctors are going to have to live in a lot of places, if no jobs come to Providence.

[pete11]

living in lower cost apartments next door to the train station wouldn't be a bad idea for someone who works in boston. it's an almost ideal car-free apartment complex (almost because there's currently no grocery stores or pharmacies within walking distance, but kennedy plaza is nearby).

[Cotuit]

All those reasons in parentheses I see as negative.

[runawayjim]

All those reasons in parentheses I see as negative.

[Jerry2]

My sentiments can be summarized in Ed Achorn's article in the Journal. The people that this complex would most likely support are leaving the state in droves. This is nothing new. It would have been more progressive to attract business to a city center in a state that continues to drive business, industrey, and middle-of-the-line taxpayers away.

[CtownMikey]

For those people that won't be moving here?

[Gusterfell]

Does anyone know the vacancy rate at the Avalon? Could be an indicator of how well Capitol Cove will do.

[Recchia]

Does anyone know the vacancy rate at the Avalon? Could be an indicator of how well Capitol Cove will do.

[Jenkins]

you could never prove that people wont move there..

I dont see Jerry's point at all. We have businesses interested in E&B and we have space at Gtech and soon the AMEX building will be free again.. tell me why capital cove is better off being a business that wont be allowed to exceed a certain height due to its location VS apartments that have no reason not to fill up. You dont have to work in the city, or even the state to live there. Its called a train, bus, or car. And sometimes people like to move within a city, for a fresh place to live. I think the opportunities are endless when it comes to who could live there and why, its just not that simple.

[Garris]

Does anyone know the vacancy rate at the Avalon?

[mental757]

a few points:

the renderings are too small to make a real solid judgement on (at least for me) but don't look all that bad to me.

this location is oddly shaped, height restricted, and next to the rail line which clearly limits what can (and what someone can get financing for/want to build there) be built there. It also abutts a river than has to be improved as part of the extended riverwalk and a multi-level parking garage and sloped city street. However, with the gold line, the train station, and other RIPTA bus routes (50, etc.) along with walking make this site almost perfect for residential use, not to mention this will become part of a new 'capitol region neighborhood' being created (waterplace, park row, etc.). Its close to the east side and it's amenities and attractiveness. Most Brown and RISD are walkable from here.

there is much more of a need for apartments than condos or another hotel.

I made the assumption that at least some of these (closest to the tracks??) will be moderately priced - not to be confused with "affordable."

As Mikey pointed out, there are plenty of other opportunites in better places (the parking lot district, parcel 12, citizens lots, new land after 195 is moved, E@B, top 2 floors of Gtech, etc.) for commercial uses.

Its across from and will have access to the park (I forgot the name - cross from Canal), the riverwalk, waterplace, and burnside via the ped tunnel - all great for residential.

just my 2 cents (well, more like a dollar in this case)...

[pete11]

Don't mean to offend anyone hear, but I wonder if possibly those with the least optimistic views of Providence future are the older people here on the board. Ya, I mean you Jerry2 and of course Pete11. Sometimes older and wiser is a good thing. Maybe sometimes memories of the dark old days of Providence are just too hard to shake.

Not that you each don't have valid points and such, but for real change to occur you often need a bit of almost blind optimism. Just a little while ago most Londoners would have laughed you out of the pub if you said in the not so distant future their city would be one of the hippest most desirable cities in the EU. But now it is true. Same can be said of Dublin.

Believe me, the sad state of affairs vis a vis infrastructure, taxes, schooling, corruption darkens my soul some days. But honestly, as cliche as it is, you have to keep the faith on some level .

[Mij]

A friend of mine who used to live there said it was full when she and her husband were there (I think they were even briefly on a waiting list before getting in).

- Garris

[Cotuit]

So should the city just tell the developer they can't build anything on this parcel until and unless the business climate in Rhode Island turns around? Just leave the parcel vacant? No construction jobs? Should all development in the city stop until we can get some office towers built?

[gregw]

It's not like there is no office bldg development going on. The following are all partly or entirely office according to info on UP:

GTech

E@B

ALCO

Dynamo House

Foundry/Sharpe Bldg

There is also still plenty of space for future growth (195 land for example) so it's really far fetched to assume that the residential/hotel stuff is going to lead to a lack of space for office projects down the road.

[Jenkins]

Jenkins, I'm with you. I am normally a very optimistic person. I have many young people working for me (early 20's) and I try to suck in as much of their enthusiasm as possible. For that very same reason http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070110/ts_nm/...ordability_dc_1 this makes me angry.

I know most people on this board have visions of everything being full and vibrant once completed. In my minds eye I already see these apartments as run down. This project really gets to me, because I always thought that something special could go in this area, and this ain't that.

[pete11]

Interesting that you see them that way, run down. Hopefully it all works out. I would rather have this project built than not, though.

[runawayjim]

I really do hope it all works out, but I have a sinking feeling that all the projects together won't attract as many high incomed people as initialy projected, and this is what we'll have around the State house. I get that there is nothing there now, but I would have liked some commercial with green space in that area, but no one's building that.

[mental757]

exaclyt the type of mentality that is being described. If you admittedly see something as run-down and graffiti covered BEFORE IT'S EVEN BUILT, then yes, you are a pessimist, sorry.

while certain things are evident in both the national and local economies, that should not be reason to not build something (the lenders will ultimately decide if it should be built really). This also isn't an area that will attract tons of taggers, especially once built (and lighted).

I would be much more worried if this was going to be yet another set of mid to upper priced condos, another hotel, or even a spec commercial building versus it being apartments. Having said that, I agree that I would love to see a low/mid rise corporate HQ relocation from Boston, but thats not happening right now, and a dirt lot that sits empty for 10 years in this location when there is plenty of buildable commercial lots for the future is a much worse alternative than this IMO.

[CtownMikey]

I really do hope it all works out, but I have a sinking feeling that all the projects together won't attract as many high incomed people as initialy projected, and this is what we'll have around the State house. I get that there is nothing there now, but I would have liked some commercial with green space in that area, but no one's building that.

[inProv]

exaclyt the type of mentality that is being described. If you admittedly see something as run-down and graffiti covered BEFORE IT'S EVEN BUILT, then yes, you are a pessimist, sorry.

while certain things are evident in both the national and local economies, that should not be reason to not build something (the lenders will ultimately decide if it should be built really). This also isn't an area that will attract tons of taggers, especially once built (and lighted).

I would be much more worried if this was going to be yet another set of mid to upper priced condos, another hotel, or even a spec commercial building versus it being apartments. Having said that, I agree that I would love to see a low/mid rise corporate HQ relocation from Boston, but thats not happening right now, and a dirt lot that sits empty for 10 years in this location when there is plenty of buildable commercial lots for the future is a much worse alternative than this IMO.

[mental757]

in Sim City, the buildings turn grey and get all crumbly looking in the blink of an eye...

[Recchia]

I can't believe we're even questioning this. Apartments directly adjacent to commuter rail and within walking distance of everything downtown, the mall, tons of jobs, Thayer Street, Waterplace Park. If they can mitigate the dreaded train noise (oh no!!!) then this is an absolute no-brainer and a really nice development if you ask me.

[dgreco]

I can't believe we're even questioning this. Apartments directly adjacent to commuter rail and within walking distance of everything downtown, the mall, tons of jobs, Thayer Street, Waterplace Park. If they can mitigate the dreaded train noise (oh no!!!) then this is an absolute no-brainer and a really nice development if you ask me.

[runawayjim]

How loud are the actual trains, when I am downtown I don't remember them being loud, Also they are usually stoppnig or taking off, so they are never at full speed.