Charlotte/Raleigh Highrise Building Booms

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, Phillydog said:

Let's not forget booming Durham...5 tower cranes up with more to come.

take some photos and yes downtown Durham is en fuego! 

[Mid South NC]

On 5/19/2022 at 1:02 PM, Phillydog said:

Let's not forget booming Durham...5 tower cranes up with more to come.

Absolutely, Durham is booming as well! Incredible how far downtown has come already, not to mention all that's under construction, and in the pre - construction phase. The Google ect. affect on downtown Durham, much like the Apple ect affect on the city of Raleigh, and the greater RTP metro. 

I mean, think about it! The sheer number of jobs coming to RDU is unfathomable.  I saw on the news there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 open job opportunities currently in the Triangle. 
 

https://wraltechwire.com/2022/04/18/triangle-employers-looking-to-fill-as-many-as-50000-jobs-data-show/?amp=1

[Richhamleigh, DC]

11 minutes ago, Mid South NC said:

Absolutely, Durham is booming as well! Incredible how far downtown has come already, not to mention all that's under construction, and in the pre - construction phase. The Google ect. affect on downtown Durham, much like the Apple ect affect on the city of Raleigh, and the greater RTP metro. 

I mean, think about it! The sheer number of jobs coming to RDU is unfathomable.  I saw on the news there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 open job opportunities currently in the Triangle. 
 

https://wraltechwire.com/2022/04/18/triangle-employers-looking-to-fill-as-many-as-50000-jobs-data-show/?amp=1

It's pretty amazing!  Given the current economic situation, I'm concerned about all these projects and ED projects panning out.  BTW, the Apple campus will be closer to Durham than Raleigh...in fact all of RTP is closer to downtown Durham than downtown Raleigh.   Eventually though the distinction may be irrelevant.

On 5/19/2022 at 3:08 PM, KJHburg said:

take some photos and yes downtown Durham is en fuego! 

Will do!

[Mid South NC]

6 hours ago, Phillydog said:

It's pretty amazing!  Given the current economic situation, I'm concerned about all these projects and ED projects panning out.  BTW, the Apple campus will be closer to Durham than Raleigh...in fact all of RTP is closer to downtown Durham than downtown Raleigh.   Eventually though the distinction may be irrelevant.

Will do!

Of course, but technically the East Coast Apple HQ will be located in the approximately 1/4 of the park located in Wake County which gives this particular distinction to Raleigh instead of Durham, though that distinction is already for the most part irrelevant because to the majority who reside outside of the S.E. (And aside from of a small local group of mostly  ego driven Durham or Raleigh boosters) Raleigh - Durham = one city, and it actually synergic-ally benefits both to be connected. My family in the N.E. didn't know they were different until we pointed this out to them, as they recognized RDU and assumed Raleigh and Durham were like Winston - Salem, either two parts of the same city or two older, once divided cities that ultimately merged for the betterment of both. 
 

We do agree that the distinction is actually irrelevant (we could discuss the actuality of when this took place) and other than the recognition for individual federal funds it's will always be mutually beneficial on a national and international  level to continue to be known as the Raleigh - Durham, Research Triangle metro area. 
 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/business/2021/04/26/apple-plans-new-campus-in-wake-county--north-carolina--with-3-000-jobs

 

https://www.enr.com/articles/51661-apple-to-build-1-billion-east-coast-campus-in-north-carolina

Edited May 21, 2022 by Mid South NC

[CLT Development]

15 hours ago, Mid South NC said:

Of course, but technically the East Coast Apple HQ will be located in the approximately 1/4 of the park located in Wake County which gives this particular distinction to Raleigh instead of Durham, though that distinction is already for the most part irrelevant because to the majority who reside outside of the S.E. (And aside from of a small local group of mostly  ego driven Durham or Raleigh boosters) Raleigh - Durham = one city, and it actually synergic-ally benefits both to be connected. My family in the N.E. didn't know they were different until we pointed this out to them, as they recognized RDU and assumed Raleigh and Durham were like Winston - Salem, either two parts of the same city or two older, once divided cities that ultimately merged for the betterment of both. 
 

We do agree that the distinction is actually irrelevant (we could discuss the actuality of when this took place) and other than the recognition for individual federal funds it's will always be mutually beneficial on a national and international  level to continue to be known as the Raleigh - Durham, Research Triangle metro area. 
 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nc/charlotte/business/2021/04/26/apple-plans-new-campus-in-wake-county--north-carolina--with-3-000-jobs

 

https://www.enr.com/articles/51661-apple-to-build-1-billion-east-coast-campus-in-north-carolina

Can't say I've ever once, having lived in the North East for 12 years, and spent lots of summers living in the Midwest, heard someone that thought that Raleigh-Durham was a singular city. 

[DMann]

perhaps they equate it with Minneapolis-St Paul?????

[KJHburg]

Raleigh Durham is a single media market, single metro area like a Dallas FORT WORTH  or the twin cities.  Yes the cities are different but they shared the RTP the largest job center in the area and the airport.    This is a classic 1+1 equals 3 they are bigger and stronger together.  I know the Feds currently  consider it 2 metro areas which I find ridiculous after having it as one metro area up until then.   Raleigh Durham metro together is bigger than Nashville.  Think of that.  More people live in the combined Raleigh Cary  Durham Chapel Hill metro areas than in Nashville.   Every corporation or retail outlet considers it one market with various locations.    Now I will say I never knew met anyone who thought they were one city but just 2 cities nearby like the examples I gave. 

[tozmervo]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:41 AM, DMann said:

perhaps they equate it with Minneapolis-St Paul?????

Aren't they also two very distinct cities though? Doesn't St Paul have it's own skyline several miles from Minneapolis? 

[kayman]

On 5/23/2022 at 8:58 PM, KJHburg said:

Raleigh Durham is a single media market, single metro area like a Dallas FORT WORTH  or the twin cities.  Yes the cities are different but they shared the RTP the largest job center in the area and the airport.    This is a classic 1+1 equals 3 they are bigger and stronger together.  I know the Feds currently  consider it 2 metro areas which I find ridiculous after having it as one metro area up until then.   Raleigh Durham metro together is bigger than Nashville.  Think of that.  More people live in the combined Raleigh Cary  Durham Chapel Hill metro areas than in Nashville.   Every corporation or retail outlet considers it one market with various locations.    Now I will say I never knew met anyone who thought they were one city but just 2 cities nearby like the examples I gave. 

Correction the media market is Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville (b/c of WUVC & WFPX-TV) along with Goldsboro (b/c of WNCN-TV), Wilson (b/c of WRAY-TV), and Rocky Mount (b/c of WRPX-TV) which includes 22 counties in NC and 1 county in VA

https://www.mediamarketmap.com/raleigh-durham-fayetteville-designated-market-media-map/

Edited May 25, 2022 by kayman

[carolina1792]

Woah speaking of Kane's son, his (SLI Capital) dual 20-story project recently  submitted for permitting. 

670 residential units!

Images below are two different towers that will make up the project. 

If you consider south Raleigh anything below South Street it's wild what is about to happen to south Raleigh:

0) Park City South, Phase 1 (7 story apartment tower complex/parking for the entire PCS project)

1) Salisbury Square, tower 1 (20 stories)

2) Salisbury Square, tower 2 (20 stories)

3) SLI Capital, tower 1 (20 stories)

4) SLI Capital, tower 2 (20 stories)

5) Park City South Phase 2A (20 stories)

6) Park City South Phase 2B (20 stories)

7) Park City South Phase 3 (zoned for 20 stories, no announcement yet but already revealed to be a 20 story tower from a presentation)

8) Downtown South Phase 0 (6 story mass timber office and residential building)

9) Downtown South Residential (21 stories)

10) Downtown South Office (27  stories) 

Those are the projects that have passed the proposal phase and are being development. Probably missing a few projects. 

 

 

It's being report by DTRaleigh that a group is seeking to rezone 30 acres of south Raleigh to 20 stories. Bounded by Maywood Ave, Mercury Street, Lake Wheeler, and Saunders St. It's basically a mini-Downtown South in terms of scale. 

[Bolt]

Raleigh high rise residential construction is off the charts.  That city is adding 1000’s of residential units in a small area.  They may have lucked out by not adding much high rise office the past decade.   Any office construction going on downtown is mixed use.   Not mention the second downtown of North Hills and Mid town Exchange .  Forgot about the Iron District  also.  Triangle definitely on fire currently. 

[JacksonH]

On 5/21/2022 at 9:19 AM, Mid South NC said:

Absolutely, Durham is booming as well! Incredible how far downtown has come already, not to mention all that's under construction, and in the pre - construction phase. The Google ect. affect on downtown Durham, much like the Apple ect affect on the city of Raleigh, and the greater RTP metro. 

I mean, think about it! The sheer number of jobs coming to RDU is unfathomable.  I saw on the news there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 50,000 open job opportunities currently in the Triangle. 
 

https://wraltechwire.com/2022/04/18/triangle-employers-looking-to-fill-as-many-as-50000-jobs-data-show/?amp=1

I just learned about this VinFast plant today.  My gosh, 10,000 to 13,000 jobs coming to this one plant?!  And while that's certainly exciting news (and Charlotte clearly has a fierce rival in RDU, which may one day in the not-too-distant future assume the title of biggest metro of the Carolinas) I'm not so sure it's exciting that it's happening way out in Chatham County.  Obviously a plant like that can't go in downtown Raleigh, but this location is sooo far out.  How are they going to prevent this region from sprawling out of control and turning into another Atlanta or DFW?

https://chapelboro.com/town-square/vietnamese-manufacturer-may-be-picking-chatham-county-for-multi-billion-dollar-electric-vehicle-plant

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, JacksonH said:

I just learned about this VinFast plant today.  My gosh, 10,000 to 13,000 jobs coming to this one plant?!  And while that's certainly exciting news (and Charlotte clearly has a fierce rival in RDU, which may one day in the not-too-distant future assume the title of biggest metro of the Carolinas) I'm not so sure it's exciting that it's happening way out in Chatham County.  Obviously a plant like that can't go in downtown Raleigh, but this location is sooo far out.  How are they going to prevent this region from sprawling out of control and turning into another Atlanta or DFW?

https://chapelboro.com/town-square/vietnamese-manufacturer-may-be-picking-chatham-county-for-multi-billion-dollar-electric-vehicle-plant

Not too far out.  It is in a corner of Chatham County that is immediately SW of Apex and Cary and those are big suburbs of Raleigh not to mention Holly Springs.  This was a megasite

https://www.triangleinnovationpoint.com/

 

[JacksonH]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Not too far out.  It is in a corner of Chatham County that is immediately SW of Apex and Cary and those are big suburbs of Raleigh not to mention Holly Springs.  This was a megasite

https://www.triangleinnovationpoint.com/

 

That's good to know.  But it just seems the Charlotte area is more consolidated with the major employers mainly in Mecklenburg County.  I wish the RDU area could  be more like that.

[kayman]

17 hours ago, JacksonH said:

I just learned about this VinFast plant today.  My gosh, 10,000 to 13,000 jobs coming to this one plant?!  And while that's certainly exciting news (and Charlotte clearly has a fierce rival in RDU, which may one day in the not-too-distant future assume the title of biggest metro of the Carolinas) I'm not so sure it's exciting that it's happening way out in Chatham County.  Obviously a plant like that can't go in downtown Raleigh, but this location is sooo far out.  How are they going to prevent this region from sprawling out of control and turning into another Atlanta or DFW?

https://chapelboro.com/town-square/vietnamese-manufacturer-may-be-picking-chatham-county-for-multi-billion-dollar-electric-vehicle-plant

I have a hard time believing the Triangle  surpassing Charlotte in population ever. 

The CLT Airport is a major logistics, distribution, and travel hub and that's something in economic and population growth that goes much further than most realize. 

The reason why Atlanta achieved its status goal is the major airport, state capitol, major corporations presence, pro sports facilities, R1 research schools, logistics, mass transit, and distribution.  Those components are divided btwn two NC regions here, but Charlotte has the majority of those.

There are other intangibles and cultural markers that I won't list here nor derail the topic that are here in Charlotte that aren't in the Triangle at all. 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by kayman

[Norm2]

2 hours ago, kayman said:

I have a hard time believing the Triangle  surpassing Charlotte in population ever. 

The CLT Airport is a major logistics, distribution, and travel hub and that's something in economic and population growth that goes much further than most realize. 

The reason why Atlanta achieved its status goal is the major airport, state capitol, major corporations presence, pro sports facilities, R1 research schools, logistics, mass transit, and distribution.  Those components are divided btwn two NC regions here, but Charlotte has the majority of those.

There are other intangibles and cultural markers that I won't list here not derail the topic that are here in Charlotte that aren't in the Triangle at all. 

 

 

Maybe one day the Triangle will surpass Charlotte, but it probably wouldn't be in my lifetime.

[kayman]

1 hour ago, norm21499 said:

Maybe one day the Triangle will surpass Charlotte, but it probably wouldn't be in my lifetime.

Highly doubtful

[JacksonH]

4 hours ago, kayman said:

I have a hard time believing the Triangle  surpassing Charlotte in population ever. 

The CLT Airport is a major logistics, distribution, and travel hub and that's something in economic and population growth that goes much further than most realize. 

The reason why Atlanta achieved its status goal is the major airport, state capitol, major corporations presence, pro sports facilities, R1 research schools, logistics, mass transit, and distribution.  Those components are divided btwn two NC regions here, but Charlotte has the majority of those.

There are other intangibles and cultural markers that I won't list here nor derail the topic that are here in Charlotte that aren't in the Triangle at all. 

Point taken, and at the rate both cities are growning it probably won't happen, if ever.  BUT things can change, especially after something as seismic as this VinFast battery plant, coming on the heels of the announcement of the huge Toyota battery plant not too far away, just outside of Greensboro (yeah, know Greensboro is a different metro, but two big car battery facilities in the same general region).  And you can't underestimate the power of three major, nationally-acclaimed universities in the RDU area.  

Momentum shifts sometimes do happen.  It was just a few decades ago that Greensboro was the #2 city, Raleigh was #3,  and Winston-Salem was #4.  Now Raleigh has moved past Greensboro, taking the #2 spot, and Durham has moved past Winston-Salem to #4, and Durham is now on the verge of also passing Greensboro's to assume #3.  A little over a century ago, Wilmington was the biggest city in the state, now it's #8.  Nothing stays the same.

Some interesting data.

3 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by JacksonH

[kayman]

14 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

Point taken, and at the rate both cities are growning it probably won't happen, if ever.  BUT things can change, especially after something as seismic as this VinFast battery plant, coming on the heels of the announcement of the huge Toyota battery plant not too far away, just outside of Greensboro (yeah, know Greensboro is a different metro, but two big car battery facilities in the same general region).  And you can't underestimate the power of three major, nationally-acclaimed universities in the RDU area.  

Momentum shifts sometimes do happen.  It was just a few decades ago that Greensboro was the #2 city, Raleigh was #3,  and Winston-Salem was #4.  Now Raleigh has moved past Greensboro, taking the #2 spot, and Durham has moved past Winston-Salem to #4, and Durham is now on the verge of also passing Greensboro's to assume #3.  A little over a century ago, Wilmington was the biggest city in the state, now it's #8.  Nothing stays the same.

Some interesting data.

Understood and received.

However,  why do you think TPTB in Charlotte pushing for UNCC to becoming a Carnegie R1 research institution, Wake Forest to open a full fledged 4-year medical school along with a research campus (The Pearl), the merger of Atrium Health with Wake Forest Baptist Health and now Advocacy Health to become the  US's 5th largest healthcare system to fund and provide resources for that said Wake Forest medical school, ongoing talks of bringing back another 4-year law school probably with Wake Forest again,  Queens University to become a D1 athletic program, CLT Mayor initiative for strategic corporate partnerships with JCSU and possibly expanding to other metro HBCUs, and the partnership with the UNC School of Medicine & Novant Presbyterian for a 2-year medical school? These back-to-back movements are all to grow the existing higher ed institutions influence and major prominence in Greater Charlotte as well.  Foundational higher ed initiatives like these look innocuous but are huge to all occur within one region in the past 24 months alone.  That 0.2% growth rate will likely close or reverse places in the coming years because of this in the coming years. 

This is why is I said, highly doubtful. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by kayman

[JacksonH]

42 minutes ago, kayman said:

Understood and received.

However,  why do you think TPTB in Charlotte pushing for UNCC to becoming a Carnegie R1 research institution, Wake Forest to open a full fledged 4-year medical school along with a research campus (The Pearl), the merger of Atrium Health with Wake Forest Baptist Health and now Advocacy Health to become the  US's 5th largest healthcare system to fund and provide resources for that said Wake Forest medical school, ongoing talks of bringing back another 4-year law school probably with Wake Forest again,  Queens University to become a D1 athletic program, CLT Mayor initiative for strategic corporate partnerships with JCSU and possibly expanding to other metro HBCUs, and the partnership with the UNC School of Medicine & Novant Presbyterian for a 2-year medical school? These back-to-back movements are all to grow the existing higher ed institutions influence and major prominence in Greater Charlotte as well.  Foundational higher ed initiatives like these look innocuous but are huge to all occur within one region in the past 24 months alone.  That 0.2% growth rate will likely close or reverse places in the coming years because of this in the coming years. 

This is why is I said, highly doubtful. 

Okay, ya got me.  I've got no dog in this fight so I'll let an RDU fanatic challenge your points if they want to.

[Bolt]

Job growth is the deciding factor .  The triangle  adds high paying jobs which in turn creates more service jobs.  Start drawing a circle around Raleigh using the  same circumference as Charlotte’s CSA and that population number may be similar.   Just not recognized by the census weird commuting pattern  criteria.  Triangle still has room , and that tech, bio, eds, growth engine to pack them in.  Start adding counties to the Triangle official CSA and it will officially surpass sooner than you think. 

[kayman]

15 minutes ago, Bolt said:

Job growth is the deciding factor .  The triangle  adds high paying jobs which in turn creates more service jobs.  Start drawing a circle around Raleigh using the  same circumference as Charlotte’s CSA and that population number may be similar.   Just not recognized by the census weird commuting pattern  criteria.  Triangle still has room , and that tech, bio, eds, growth engine to pack them in.  Start adding counties to the Triangle official CSA and it will officially surpass sooner than you think. 

Jobs play a role but both are doing that at nearly the same rate.  There are other things that are intangible that affect growth like culture, political, socioeconomics, and demographics trends. 

This is pointless with longitudinal comparisons of things. 

[CLT Development]

On 5/25/2022 at 6:31 PM, Bolt said:

Raleigh high rise residential construction is off the charts.  That city is adding 1000’s of residential units in a small area.  They may have lucked out by not adding much high rise office the past decade.   Any office construction going on downtown is mixed use.   Not mention the second downtown of North Hills and Mid town Exchange .  Forgot about the Iron District  also.  Triangle definitely on fire currently. 

I know of 26 high rises in South End, Gold District and Dilworth alone, and none are arbitrary zonings *up to a certain height.* This does not include Uptown, Midtown, South Park, and Ballantyne. I will say though, we should all be wary we have surpassed 2008-2010 proposals, and its a big red flag.

Edited May 31, 2022 by CLT Development

[Richhamleigh, DC]

On 5/26/2022 at 2:49 PM, JacksonH said:

Point taken, and at the rate both cities are growning it probably won't happen, if ever.  BUT things can change, especially after something as seismic as this VinFast battery plant, coming on the heels of the announcement of the huge Toyota battery plant not too far away, just outside of Greensboro (yeah, know Greensboro is a different metro, but two big car battery facilities in the same general region).  And you can't underestimate the power of three major, nationally-acclaimed universities in the RDU area.  

Momentum shifts sometimes do happen.  It was just a few decades ago that Greensboro was the #2 city, Raleigh was #3,  and Winston-Salem was #4.  Now Raleigh has moved past Greensboro, taking the #2 spot, and Durham has moved past Winston-Salem to #4, and Durham is now on the verge of also passing Greensboro's to assume #3.  A little over a century ago, Wilmington was the biggest city in the state, now it's #8.  Nothing stays the same.

Some interesting data.

 

These are great graphics Jackson, where did you get them??

[JacksonH]

9 hours ago, Phillydog said:

These are great graphics Jackson, where did you get them??

https://www.citypopulation.de/en/usa/combmetro/