Soccer Stadium

[gvsusean]

How they havent partnered with GVSU to make a D1 football /real pro soccer stadium is beyond me. This is the perfect opportunity to do so and to share those costs…

[joeDowntown]

1 hour ago, gvsusean said:

How they havent partnered with GVSU to make a D1 football /real pro soccer stadium is beyond me. This is the perfect opportunity to do so and to share those costs…

My thought is that GVSU is dragging their feet on moving to D1 (plus, college Football seems to be in a bit of turmoil as far as conferences, who's in/who's out. Definitely a power grab going on). Also, Unless we got an MLS team, I don't the stadium would be profitable (size needed for D1 football, vs USL soccer). MLS is extremely expensive, and I see MLS getting MORE expensive with the David Beckham's and Tom Brady's of the world getting involved. Add what Messi has done for Inter Miami, and I think we're going to see a major shift upward in MLS in the next few years, and I think Grand Rapids is too small for what MLS is trying to achieve. 

Joe

[GRLaker]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

My thought is that GVSU is dragging their feet on moving to D1 (plus, college Football seems to be in a bit of turmoil as far as conferences, who's in/who's out. Definitely a power grab going on). Also, Unless we got an MLS team, I don't the stadium would be profitable (size needed for D1 football, vs USL soccer). MLS is extremely expensive, and I see MLS getting MORE expensive with the David Beckham's and Tom Brady's of the world getting involved. Add what Messi has done for Inter Miami, and I think we're going to see a major shift upward in MLS in the next few years, and I think Grand Rapids is too small for what MLS is trying to achieve. 

Joe

As much as I’d love to see one in GR, I highly doubt we’d get one before Detroit. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

The soccer stadium project is not dead. It's very much alive.

 

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2023/10/new-agreement-guides-planning-for-proposed-grand-rapids-soccer-stadium.html

[joeDowntown]

Heard from a reliable source that team ownership is already in place for USL Championship league and they are just waiting on the stadium.

[joeDowntown]

There’s an article in Crain’s that has most of the same information as the Mlive article. Interestingly, they added a rendering that said it was released last year. Somone had posted some plans (and then asked us to take them down because they released it too soon). I don’t remember this being on of them:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/economic-development/grand-rapids-soccer-stadium-plan-advances-under-new-agreement/

[gvsusean]

On 10/6/2023 at 10:03 PM, joeDowntown said:

There’s an article in Crain’s that has most of the same information as the Mlive article. Interestingly, they added a rendering that said it was released last year. Somone had posted some plans (and then asked us to take them down because they released it too soon). I don’t remember this being on of them:

https://www.crainsgrandrapids.com/news/economic-development/grand-rapids-soccer-stadium-plan-advances-under-new-agreement/

How this goes forward without a true dome and a partnership with GVSU to make a D1 football capable stadium (when there is chatter that its about to happen) blows my mind…. What a horrible lost opportunity. 

[joeDowntown]

20 minutes ago, gvsusean said:

How this goes forward without a true dome and a partnership with GVSU to make a D1 football capable stadium (when there is chatter that its about to happen) blows my mind…. What a horrible lost opportunity. 

I have to imagine there have been talks and GVSU is not headed in that direction. If GVSU does go D1, maybe they've decided a stadium in Allendale is a better fit. I'm not a college sports expert, but I've also heard D1 and D2 programs are having serious issues as the bigger conference absorb more teams (Big Ten with USC, UCLA, Oregron) devastating other conferences. So maybe it's not a great time to move to D1 and build a big stadium without any semblance of local/historic rivalries. Maybe someone has a more educated point of view on this.

Joe

[Cookin_peacocks]

On 10/8/2023 at 12:42 PM, joeDowntown said:

I have to imagine there have been talks and GVSU is not headed in that direction. If GVSU does go D1, maybe they've decided a stadium in Allendale is a better fit. I'm not a college sports expert, but I've also heard D1 and D2 programs are having serious issues as the bigger conference absorb more teams (Big Ten with USC, UCLA, Oregron) devastating other conferences. So maybe it's not a great time to move to D1 and build a big stadium without any semblance of local/historic rivalries. Maybe someone has a more educated point of view on this.

Joe

Right, but this could be the perfect chance to make the jump and maybe get in a traditional powerhouse or mid tier conference. I think GVSU in the MAC would be a great fit. Natural rivalry with Western and Central. 

 

I know I'm dreaming big here.... but why not?

[GR8scott]

GVSU's existing stadium is more than enough to move to FCS and probably even FBS which is far less likely. However I would hope there is the foresight to convert to football for hosting a big game or perhaps even a WMU game or some other reason future football. If GVSU ever did move to FCS, the most likely options would be Pioneer leauge or Missouri Valley conference of which it would be much larger than just about every school in either of those conferences with arguably better existing facilities. Its also relatively easy and inexpensive to expand Lubbers Stadium more 

1 hour ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

Right, but this could be the perfect chance to make the jump and maybe get in a traditional powerhouse or mid tier conference. I think GVSU in the MAC would be a great fit. Natural rivalry with Western and Central. 

 

I know I'm dreaming big here.... but why not?

Seems like it could work but given GVSU's previous reasons for not moving up such as costs and too much competition and mostly would rather dominate much smaller schools, FCS would be more likely so geographically best fits would be Pioneer (mostly smaller private schools), Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley or even United 

 

[gvsusean]

2 hours ago, GR8scott said:

GVSU's existing stadium is more than enough to move to FCS and probably even FBS which is far less likely. However I would hope there is the foresight to convert to football for hosting a big game or perhaps even a WMU game or some other reason future football. If GVSU ever did move to FCS, the most likely options would be Pioneer leauge or Missouri Valley conference of which it would be much larger than just about every school in either of those conferences with arguably better existing facilities. Its also relatively easy and inexpensive to expand Lubbers Stadium more 

Seems like it could work but given GVSU's previous reasons for not moving up such as costs and too much competition and mostly would rather dominate much smaller schools, FCS would be more likely so geographically best fits would be Pioneer (mostly smaller private schools), Missouri Valley, Ohio Valley or even United 

 

I may be mistaken, but Lubbers is not large enough to move up. Nor can it be expanded enough without significant engineering challenges to do so. 
Also, once you start getting to a certain size, the team becomes a different kind of draw. It would be a nightmare to move 30,000+ on Lake michigan Dr…

[joeDowntown]

My thought on this is that if GVSU hasn’t seized the opportunity to partner on a dual soccer/football stadium right across the street from their downtown campus, they aren’t seriously considering moving to D1 in the near/mid future. 

I’d have to assume that they can convert the soccer field to football every so often, but from the designs I’ve seen, it’s definitely a stadium modeled after other soccer stadiums (and maybe not a perfect fit for football). 

Would love to be wrong, and two big tenants would be better than one. Also seems like they could team up with the city on some parking and housing project’s.

Joe

 

[GR8scott]

1 hour ago, gvsusean said:

I may be mistaken, but Lubbers is not large enough to move up. Nor can it be expanded enough without significant engineering challenges to do so. 
Also, once you start getting to a certain size, the team becomes a different kind of draw. It would be a nightmare to move 30,000+ on Lake michigan Dr…

Lubbers stadium official capacity is over 10k, that would put it 3rd largest in the pioneer league without any expansion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Football_League  Valpo the closest one is 5000 and there are dozens of smaller ones all the way down to 2000 seat capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Division_I_FCS_football_stadiums

and theres plenty of room to replace the east side bleachers that are smaller than many local high schools with a grand stand 

[Pattmost20]

11 hours ago, gvsusean said:

I may be mistaken, but Lubbers is not large enough to move up. Nor can it be expanded enough without significant engineering challenges to do so. 
Also, once you start getting to a certain size, the team becomes a different kind of draw. It would be a nightmare to move 30,000+ on Lake michigan Dr…

Plenty large for FCS. It would need to be at least 15k for FBS, but according to GVSU athletics website:

"Designed with the future in mind, the stadium can have permanent seating added when needed, with ultimate expansion to 20,000 seats. "

The numbers I've seen thrown around for the soccer stadium are 7k to 12k, so that would either be smaller than the current football stadium, or just barely bigger, and not big enough to accommodate FBS.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Pattmost20

[Khorasaurus1]

GVSU may be under some political pressure to not move up, at least not as far as FBS/MAC. The MAC schools are dealing with declining enrollment (especially Central), and having "top level" football is one of the key selling points. GVSU has other things to "sell" to prospective students (GR, relationships with employers, etc). 

I could see GVSU moving up to FCS, though. That would allow them to play top tier basketball, which means potentially participating in March Madness, and hosting real regular season games against Michigan and Michigan State . They could split their basketball home games between the Fieldhouse in Allendale and Van Andel, which is a model used by national powers like Villanova and UConn,  so it's not weird. Meanwhile, their football team could play a (road) game each year against an FBS team, which will increase their brand without actually having to commit to FBS full time. 

[Cookin_peacocks]

12 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

My thought on this is that if GVSU hasn’t seized the opportunity to partner on a dual soccer/football stadium right across the street from their downtown campus, they aren’t seriously considering moving to D1 in the near/mid future. 

I’d have to assume that they can convert the soccer field to football every so often, but from the designs I’ve seen, it’s definitely a stadium modeled after other soccer stadiums (and maybe not a perfect fit for football). 

Would love to be wrong, and two big tenants would be better than one. Also seems like they could team up with the city on some parking and housing project’s.

Joe

 

If they are building a soccer stadium, the playing field will easily support American football. A soccer pitch is larger than a football field.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Cookin_peacocks

[joeDowntown]

6 hours ago, Cookin_peacocks said:

If they are building a soccer stadium, the playing field will easily support American football. A soccer pitch is larger than a football field.

Yep. Just wondering if they build multi-purpose stadiums a bit different as their is more space width-wise (maybe it gets eaten up by sidelines, etc.). I've always felt like fans are close to the field in soccer, as opposed to Lambeau leaping up to the fans in Football. But maybe they end up being similar in configuration?

Joe

[cstonesparty]

On 10/10/2023 at 9:24 AM, Khorasaurus1 said:

GVSU may be under some political pressure to not move up, at least not as far as FBS/MAC. The MAC schools are dealing with declining enrollment (especially Central), and having "top level" football is one of the key selling points. GVSU has other things to "sell" to prospective students (GR, relationships with employers, etc). 

I could see GVSU moving up to FCS, though. That would allow them to play top tier basketball, which means potentially participating in March Madness, and hosting real regular season games against Michigan and Michigan State . They could split their basketball home games between the Fieldhouse in Allendale and Van Andel, which is a model used by national powers like Villanova and UConn,  so it's not weird. Meanwhile, their football team could play a (road) game each year against an FBS team, which will increase their brand without actually having to commit to FBS full time. 

Been thinking about this.  I think the benefits of dominating DII and traveling within region/state for sports are significant vs. moving up and losing more frequently at higher level while accruing significant expense increases across every budget line and losing fan travel opportunities due to distance/cost.  I think the benefits of moving up to FCS are overblown...

[wingbert]

19 hours ago, cstonesparty said:

Been thinking about this.  I think the benefits of dominating DII and traveling within region/state for sports are significant vs. moving up and losing more frequently at higher level while accruing significant expense increases across every budget line and losing fan travel opportunities due to distance/cost.  I think the benefits of moving up to FCS are overblown...

However, schools like Grand Valley can make some nice coin by going up against top tier marquee programs in early season play.  This in turn helps fund efforts to build their programs and helps recruiting because they can offer greater exposure to athletes.  Plus, every so often, the sacrificial lamb rises up and grabs a win, which is fun.

[GRLaker]

GVSU going to D1 is still up in the air. It’s a natural move considering the GLIAC is falling apart at the seams, but I have heard that they may be getting resistance from Oakland and Detroit Mercy to join the Horizon League, which would be the logical conference for all non-football sports. 
 

As for the stadium…They’ll never move it downtown. They want the stadium to remain on campus. They also have plans for another expansion in the near future per their master plan. This addition is much needed since that side of the stadium is dinky. New additions in the picture are in blue.  

Edited October 26, 2023 by GRLaker

[gvsusean]

Such a wasted opportunity..

[jonrapley]

I must admit as a soccer fan i am happy to not have to share a potential stadium with an American football team. If Grand Rapids wants to be serious about bringing USL championship to the city then a soccer specific stadium is a must. The city should look at stadiums like Lynn Family stadium in Louisville or Weidner Field in Colorado Springs as a great examples of urban stadiums to replicate.  

[Pattmost20]

10 minutes ago, jonrapley said:

I must admit as a soccer fan i am happy to not have to share a potential stadium with an American football team. If Grand Rapids wants to be serious about bringing USL championship to the city then a soccer specific stadium is a must. The city should look at stadiums like Lynn Family stadium in Louisville or Weidner Field in Colorado Springs as a great examples of urban stadiums to replicate.  

Agreed, I think stadiums that split between American football and soccer always ends up compromising. I also think it takes away from the college sports experience to have home games at a stadium or arena that either the school doesn't own, or shares with a pro team. I've been to college football and basketball games at pro stadiums, and the atmosphere just doesn't compare to on campus facilities. 

[gvsusean]

11 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

Agreed, I think stadiums that split between American football and soccer always ends up compromising. I also think it takes away from the college sports experience to have home games at a stadium or arena that either the school doesn't own, or shares with a pro team. I've been to college football and basketball games at pro stadiums, and the atmosphere just doesn't compare to on campus facilities. 

Normally I would agree, but this isnt really pro sports. To be honest, if it was a D1 football stadium and a Tier 2-5 whatever soccer stadium , its main draw would probably be a football stadium. As a low level soccer team, i really dont imagine this being a wise investment for the city. Just use Houseman field or some other local high school field. 
i say all of this from someone that like soccer and would LOVE to have a MLS team, just being realistic about taking up a huge chunk of prime land downtown for a single use, small draw venue.

[StreetcarGR]

53 minutes ago, gvsusean said:

As a low level soccer team, i really dont imagine this being a wise investment for the city. Just use Houseman field or some other local high school field. 

I've heard USL Championship League which definitely doesn't fall into the low level category although it is one division under MLS. Definitely rates a kickass downtown stadium!