Lake Ave. & Pine St. | 33-Story Mixed-Use [Proposed]

[JFW657]

34 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I also have to marvel at the lengths OMA will go to in order to move past its reputation as the perpetual poor stepchild of Orlando’s arts organizations.

This is the second downtown developer it has jumped in bed with plus the Lake Nona debacle (will Ms. Ponte be next?) I’m willing to speculate most of its patrons prefer Loch Haven anyway and its location in an arts park that is a unique gem for Orlando. The verdant setting is also more convenient to all the many arts facilities in nearby Winter Park.

I’ll also take a moment to correct a couple of misstatements noted previously. Loch Haven is by no means inconvenient to reach. Of course, there’s SunRail and there are frequent Lynx routes which pass by OMA on 17-92 and head into Loch Haven via Orange Ave. en route to AdventHealth. By car, it’s all of a couple of exits from downtown on I4. Heck, it’s even close to OUT! Best of all, Loch Haven is keeping its TREES!

As to art museums having to be downtown, Atlanta’s High Museum and Sarasota’s Ringling seem to be doing just fine away from their cores, to name but two. 

Meanwhile, right here at home, Orlando’s Fringe Festival, arguably the most accessible arts event in the area, has absolutely thrived since leaving downtown for Loch Haven.

We might also note that Loch Haven is the traditional home for the arts locally. Bob Carr was long the outlier and DPCPA’s location was a close race between downtown and Loch Haven.
 

Agreed.

DTO is a PITA to get to, to drive in and to park in. 

The word haven isn't in Loch Haven fer nothin, dang it. 

[jliv]

Loch Haven is an underutilized and under appreciated asset in Orlando. 
Why not build out the museum there?
As for the “real” city comment: LA forces you to endure interstate hell through the 405 to a parking lot. Then you walk a bit to a gondola.
Then you are at the Getty. 
Im not saying that I agree to it but I think most agree that LA is a “real” city. 
The Getty isn’t downtown.
LACMA isn’t either. It’s in the Miracle Mile. Although they will be getting that purple line extension soon.
Point being: what’s a real city?
 

For that matter, in London, the V&A is in Kensington, the Tate Modern is in Southwark, and the National Gallery is at Trafalgar Square. Don't even get me started on how the Musee d'Orsay is nowhere near the Louvre in Paris. Funny how some Americans equate a "big city" with a "downtown", when great world cities very often have nebulous centers. I like the location, scale, and the design of this. Orlando is unfortunately locked into early-20th century planning decisions for a small agricultural town which favored single-family homes, but I like what South Eola has evolved into from its shady 80's self.

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[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, jliv said:

For that matter, in London, the V&A is in Kensington, the Tate Modern is in Southwark, and the National Gallery is at Trafalgar Square. Don't even get me started on how the Musee d'Orsay is nowhere near the Louvre in Paris. Funny how some Americans equate a "big city" with a "downtown", when great world cities very often have nebulous centers. I like the location, scale, and the design of this. Orlando is unfortunately locked into early-20th century planning decisions for a small agricultural town which favored single-family homes, but I like what South Eola has evolved into from its shady 80's self.

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There is at least a nonsequitur, though. One of the aspects of a city’s urbanity is often its rowdier districts.

To wit, there were more than a few people who bemoaned the loss of the old Times Square which gave way to today’s Disney version.

Many of my friends from the deep ‘burbs were amazed when I showed them South Eola’s cruising district in the ‘80’s that a place like Orlando could have something so scruffy.

[jliv]

On 9/16/2021 at 7:56 PM, ChiDev said:

My god a support column in the middle of a pool.  That is going to be a nightmare.

 

*Structural Engineering Cringe*

And, of course, it has to be Chihuly in the garden, because there's nothing more basic and uncontroversial than a bunch of whimsical, content-free glass sculptures which are also on permanent display in a St. Petersburg museum.  Talk about "Orlando-ing" a good idea!  I'm also looking forward to the Thomas Kinkade paintings in the gallery.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by jliv

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, jliv said:

And, of course, it has to be Chihuly in the garden, because there's nothing more basic and uncontroversial than a bunch of whimsical, content-free glass sculptures.  I'm also looking forward to the Thomas Kinkade paintings in the gallery.

 

 

That’s somewhat appropriate working with OMA. Of our visual arts organizations, it’s the one that has most often struggled with a vision and focus that tends to make it seem generic.

[jliv]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s somewhat appropriate working with OMA. Of our visual arts organizations, it’s the one that has most often struggled with a vision and focus that tends to make it seem generic.

Which is a shame, because a half-day spent wandering through the collections of a museum should invoke a range of emotions beyond, "Oh, that's pretty"....Call me pretentious....

[smileguy]

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s somewhat appropriate working with OMA. Of our visual arts organizations, it’s the one that has most often struggled with a vision and focus that tends to make it seem generic.

I think in the post-Marina age, OMA has come a long way, and has for a long time had one of the top 3-4 budgets for arts organizations locally (DPAC and OSC being the others.)  And although there was arguably vision under Frank at the Mennello, its grown leaps and bounds with current leadership, with Shannon coming in after changes started to happen at OMA.  I think all of our visual arts intuitions have really changed substantially in the past five years or so, beginning to embrace more diverse and challenging work. 

20 hours ago, jliv said:

And, of course, it has to be Chihuly in the garden, because there's nothing more basic and uncontroversial than a bunch of whimsical, content-free glass sculptures which are also on permanent display in a St. Petersburg museum.  Talk about "Orlando-ing" a good idea!  I'm also looking forward to the Thomas Kinkade paintings in the gallery.

Ginsburg has a personal relationship with Chihuly as a personal collector and through sales at his gallery here and Time Warner Center.  Have you been to a Florida Prize exhibit at OMA?  That program in particular is teeming with work that addresses thing like the African Diaspora,  opioid crisis, climate change, police brutality, the HIV pandemic, etc.  The museum's upcoming season includes a Basquiat exhibition of 26 works that have never been on public view; two old masters exhibitions; and photography from Clyde Butcher and from 20- and 21st-Century Mexican photographers.  It's exciting stuff, and the museum is pulling above its weight for size and budget.  

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, smileguy said:

I think in the post-Marina age, OMA has come a long way, and has for a long time had one of the top 3-4 budgets for arts organizations locally (DPAC and OSC being the others.)  And although there was arguably vision under Frank at the Mennello, its grown leaps and bounds with current leadership, with Shannon coming in after changes started to happen at OMA.  I think all of our visual arts intuitions have really changed substantially in the past five years or so, beginning to embrace more diverse and challenging work. 

Ginsburg has a personal relationship with Chihuly as a personal collector and through sales at his gallery here and Time Warner Center.  Have you been to a Florida Prize exhibit at OMA?  That program in particular is teeming with work that addresses thing like the African Diaspora,  opioid crisis, climate change, police brutality, the HIV pandemic, etc.  The museum's upcoming season includes a Basquiat exhibition of 26 works that have never been on public view; two old masters exhibitions; and photography from Clyde Butcher and from 20- and 21st-Century Mexican photographers.  It's exciting stuff, and the museum is pulling above its weight for size and budget.  

Is it getting better? Yes. Have they reached the point where it supersedes the mediocrity of several decades? Nope and throwing themselves at every developer that comes along isn’t helping. 

[jack]

On 9/16/2021 at 3:41 PM, orange87 said:

Seems unsafe. Especially in light of what pool water did to that condo that collapsed in South Florida a little while ago.

This pool will be stainless steel. No (hopefully) leaks. Functionality is my beef. A column in the middle of the pool. I guess they could dress it up and add seating around it and include a table attached to it. 

[JFW657]

13 hours ago, jack said:

This pool will be stainless steel. No (hopefully) leaks. Functionality is my beef. A column in the middle of the pool. I guess they could dress it up and add seating around it and include a table attached to it. 

Seems like they would just build two separate pools, one on either side of the column. The plumbing could all be connected to one filtration system and they could be different depths, with the smaller one being all shallow, say three feet, for children and older people who arent comfortable in deeper water. 

A column in the middle of the water just seems odd. 

[nite owℓ]

4 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Seems like they would just build two separate pools, one on either side of the column. The plumbing could all be connected to one filtration system and they could be different depths, with the smaller one being all shallow, say three feet, for children and older people who arent comfortable in deeper water. 

A column in the middle of the water just seems odd. 

I'm pretty sure I've seen a column in a pool before... indoor pool of a condo in Canada. Structural logistics aside, it's probably not ideal unless they dress it up like jack said (circular table around the column with seating for bar in the pool).

The overhang might also provide a little shade when needed, but I wonder if the design will get nixed due to safety precautions/liability. It's only a matter of time before someone either throws something off the balcony or dives off of a balcony into the pool lol. This is downtown, regardless of the rental price point - people will still act like entitled, drunken brats. When you live here long enough, you hear the stories: people throwing eggs/fruit off balconies at people below, suicide jump off a balcony, scaling balconies and last but not least... one guy [successfully] base jumped off a high rise balcony with a parachute onto the street below.

Edited September 21, 2021 by nite owℓ

[spenser1058]

28 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a column in a pool before... indoor pool of a condo in Canada. Structural logistics aside, it's probably not ideal unless they dress it up like jack said (circular table around the column with seating for bar in the pool).

The overhang might also provide a little shade when needed, but I wonder if the design will get nixed due to safety precautions/liability. It's only a matter of time before someone either throws something off the balcony or dives off of a balcony into the pool lol. This is downtown, regardless of the rental price point - people will still act like entitled, drunken brats. When you live here long enough, you hear the stories: people throwing eggs/fruit off balconies at people below, suicide jump off a balcony, scaling balconies and last but not least... one guy [successfully] base jumped off a high rise balcony with a parachute onto the street below.

And this is where they want a museum? Interesting concept.

[ajc]

35 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a column in a pool before... indoor pool of a condo in Canada. Structural logistics aside, it's probably not ideal unless they dress it up like jack said (circular table around the column with seating for bar in the pool).

The overhang might also provide a little shade when needed, but I wonder if the design will get nixed due to safety precautions/liability. It's only a matter of time before someone either throws something off the balcony or dives off of a balcony into the pool lol. This is downtown, regardless of the rental price point - people will still act like entitled, drunken brats. When you live here long enough, you hear the stories: people throwing eggs/fruit off balconies at people below, suicide jump off a balcony, scaling balconies and last but not least... one guy [successfully] base jumped off a high rise balcony with a parachute onto the street below.

Ah, yes. I remember when the urban parachuter made his news rounds. 

Still in awe someone really thought this was a good idea: 

 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

And this is where they want a museum? Interesting concept.

Maybe a beer museum?   

[codypet]

That's a good shot of the trees and shade in the plaza we were talking about in the Radius thread.

[jrs2]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:46 PM, ajc said:

Ah, yes. I remember when the urban parachuter made his news rounds. 

Still in awe someone really thought this was a good idea: 

 

Wow.  I guess 55W is tall enough to get a parachute to open before you become a stain on Church Street...

[nite owℓ]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:08 PM, nite owℓ said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a column in a pool before... indoor pool of a condo in Canada. Structural logistics aside, it's probably not ideal unless they dress it up like jack said (circular table around the column with seating for bar in the pool).

The overhang might also provide a little shade when needed, but I wonder if the design will get nixed due to safety precautions/liability. It's only a matter of time before someone either throws something off the balcony or dives off of a balcony into the pool lol. This is downtown, regardless of the rental price point - people will still act like entitled, drunken brats. When you live here long enough, you hear the stories: people throwing eggs/fruit off balconies at people below, suicide jump off a balcony, scaling balconies and last but not least... one guy [successfully] base jumped off a high rise balcony with a parachute onto the street below.

Unfortunately, someone jumped from a balcony at Citi Tower today: https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2021/10/19/man-commits-suicide-by-jumping-from-cititower-balcony

This is the 2nd suicide off of a balcony in downtown that I'm aware of.

[jrs2]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:57 PM, prahaboheme said:

Loch Haven is an underutilized and under appreciated asset in Orlando. 

Why not build out the museum there?

As for the “real” city comment: LA forces you to endure interstate hell through the 405 to a parking lot. Then you walk a bit to a gondola.

Then you are at the Getty. 
Im not saying that I agree to it but I think most agree that LA is a “real” city. 
The Getty isn’t downtown.

LACMA isn’t either. It’s in the Miracle Mile. Although they will be getting that purple line extension soon.

Point being: what’s a real city?

yep.  heading SB on The 405, I mean, standing still on The 405, I would gaze up those hills wishing I was in the sky on that gondola as opposed to sitting still with fingers crossed whilst speeding motorcyclists tight-roped the dashed lines between cars.

BTW, at that point on The 405, if you look to the left, there is a building almost identical to that Sheraton circular hotel on I-Drive with the metal globe on top.

But I agree with you.  Case in point, I don't like using the acronym MOSI, because to me there's only one, in Chicago, and the rest are posers.  But, MOSI is many miles south of downtown Chicago (but the rest are in downtown). 

And, in C-Town (Cleveland for non-Jim Rome listeners), their museums are a few miles to the east near Case I believe at the southern point of that parkway celebrating immigrants ala monuments lining it for each group.  And there's a hospital system there too.  Interesting similarity to Loch Haven.  But the difference is that they have a Red Line station there- no, wait, we have a Sunrail station at FH South. 

[Uncommon]

Any updates?

[Jernigan]

They havent been able to get their FAA approvals and Bungalower is reporting that OMA is looking at other downtown options due to timing.

[orange87]

12 hours ago, Jernigan said:

They havent been able to get their FAA approvals and Bungalower is reporting that OMA is looking at other downtown options due to timing.

Orlando just loves being small-time.

[jliv]

They havent been able to get their FAA approvals and Bungalower is reporting that OMA is looking at other downtown options due to timing.

FAA approvals…ahem…funding partners.


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[IAmFloridaBorn]

18 hours ago, Jernigan said:

They havent been able to get their FAA approvals and Bungalower is reporting that OMA is looking at other downtown options due to timing.

Hate this city sometimes lol Gonna be a small city forever

[JFW657]

I am going to once again be the forum heretic here and say (once again) that I hope this project never happens.

I'd like to see something about 20 - 25 stories go up there, but I don't want the St. Regis to get demo'd.

That thing as designed, is way too massive at the base IMO. 

[orange87]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

I am going to once again be the forum heretic here and say (once again) that I hope this project never happens.

I'd like to see something about 20 - 25 stories go up there, but I don't want the St. Regis to get demo'd.

That thing as designed, is way too massive at the base IMO.