Pedestrian Shaming in Charlotte

[kermit]

Wrong thread but…

this list is from Condé Nast. Lots happening here but it is 100% bullcrap to say Charlotte is more walkable than Baltimore (among other things — Pittsburgh ain’t a great place to walk, no New Orleans?)

it is interesting that one of the biggest travel publishers in the world is suggesting that Charlotte is walkable however.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/most-walkable-cities-in-the-us

Edited January 23 by kermit

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Wrong thread but…

this list is from Condé Nast. Lots happening here but it is 100% bullcrap to say Charlotte is more walkable than Baltimore (among other things — Pittsburgh ain’t a great place to walk, no New Orleans?)

it is interesting that one of the biggest travel publishers in the world is suggesting that Charlotte is walkable however.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/most-walkable-cities-in-the-us

I find Denver to be very walkable too.

[KJHburg]

how can pedestrians be safe in Charlotte when people do this?  Southend on Hawkins and Worthington

 

[kermit]

^ I'll repeat my call for an app that will allow for normal folks to become a Citizens Brigade of parking enforcers. They would  issue parking tickets by documenting violations w photos which would be sent to some poor guy in an office to verify the infraction. The people who send in the violation via the app would then get a bounty from each paid ticket. Would work sorta like a combo of red light cameras and our bail system. 

Lets put the selfie-generation to productive work!

Alternatively we, as a society, could just ask civil servants enforce traffic and parking laws again.

 

Edited January 25 by kermit

[davidclt]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

^ I'll repeat my call for an app that will allow for normal folks to issue parking tickets (take a photo in the app and then and someone at an office somewhere verifies that it is a violation). Would work sorta like a combo of red light cameras and our bail system.  The people who send in the violation via the app would then get a bounty from each paid ticket.

Lets put the selfie-generation to productive work!

I could make a full-time job of just reporting parking violations. So many sh*t parkers in and around South End. I do wish the enforcement regime would broaden their efforts into Dilworth and around the churches on Sunday - and I wish Charlotte didn't outsource it to a private vendor. So many parking violations (I guess it's okay because "CHURCH!") including parking in No Parking zones, parking the wrong way on the street, parking with enough space in front and behind combined to accommodate another car, parking further out than 12" from the curb . . . just bad parking

[kermit]

^ The good folks who attend Galilee Baptist clearly feel that it is their god given right to park in the bike lane on Mint.

I can't recall where parking was mentioned in the bible.

Edited January 27 by kermit

[go_vertical]

I've witnessed the little parking enforcement vehicle that drives around South End go right past illegally parked cars many, many times.

[Guest]

If we’re venting I agree that street parking is either a lost cause or poorly implemented. In the new development with the Harris Teeter at South Blvd and Poindexter it is almost impossible to pass the parked cars without entering the other lane, and I find people wait their turn to take up the middle rather than risk sliding by eachother. Absolutely horrendous and that’s just one example  

Edited January 24 by MothBeast

[davidclt]

Madrid taking action in their streets

[CarolinaCrown]

RANT incoming Apologies in Advance:

 

Would it be possible to sync some of these pedestrian crosswalks going in on S. Tryon &  S. Boulevard to the nearby traffic lights?  I'm finding that they really screw up traffic flow based on usually just one person crossing the daggum street. Is it petty, for sure, but it sure is frustrating and they keep adding more.  And to add to this, even after the walk is cleared alot of knucklehead drivers wait until the lights stop flashing to start moving again + last rant is the on-street parking in front of Amos southend.  These spots need to go, Amos shouldn't be allowed to just put cones out and impede traffic (usually 30ish mins prior to the spots opening up for parking)

[CLT2014]

16 minutes ago, CarolinaCrown said:

RANT incoming Apologies in Advance:

 

Would it be possible to sync some of these pedestrian crosswalks going in on S. Tryon &  S. Boulevard to the nearby traffic lights?  I'm finding that they really screw up traffic flow based on usually just one person crossing the daggum street. Is it petty, for sure, but it sure is frustrating and they keep adding more.  And to add to this, even after the walk is cleared alot of knucklehead drivers wait until the lights stop flashing to start moving again + last rant is the on-street parking in front of Amos southend.  These spots need to go, Amos shouldn't be allowed to just put cones out and impede traffic (usually 30ish mins prior to the spots opening up for parking)

No, pedestrians have priority in that area and the pedestrian crossing lights break up the high speeding that occurs through South End, which is trying to become a more walkable neighborhood that reduces auto dependence. We need more and more of these crossings to keep pedestrians safe and create more of a grid in South End and honestly all of Charlotte where the distance between intersections with cross walks can be half a mile or more.

Edited March 13 by CLT2014

[kermit]

7 hours ago, CarolinaCrown said:

RANT incoming Apologies in Advance:

 

Would it be possible to sync some of these pedestrian crosswalks going in on S. Tryon &  S. Boulevard to the nearby traffic lights?  I'm finding that they really screw up traffic flow based on usually just one person crossing the daggum street. Is it petty, for sure, but it sure is frustrating and they keep adding more.  And to add to this, even after the walk is cleared alot of knucklehead drivers wait until the lights stop flashing to start moving again + last rant is the on-street parking in front of Amos southend.  These spots need to go, Amos shouldn't be allowed to just put cones out and impede traffic (usually 30ish mins prior to the spots opening up for parking)

Would neighborhood residents and visitors somehow benefit from cars moving faster on Tryon?

Edited March 13 by kermit

[Professor]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:44 PM, kermit said:

Wrong thread but…

this list is from Condé Nast. Lots happening here but it is 100% bullcrap to say Charlotte is more walkable than Baltimore (among other things — Pittsburgh ain’t a great place to walk, no New Orleans?)

it is interesting that one of the biggest travel publishers in the world is suggesting that Charlotte is walkable however.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/most-walkable-cities-in-the-us

There are lots of variables, but I am happy with the ratings and don't disagree. Lots of people are unhappy about not being able to criticize Charlotte for a lack of sidewalks compared to the streets where they come from.  etc. Charlotte is becoming more pedestrial friendly every month. We are growing and getting better. Many places are older and getting worse. Overally, it seems to be relative to where in the city one lives as far as one's perception. I live in a walkable place and hardly use my car. 

[CarolinaCrown]

8 hours ago, kermit said:

Would neighborhood residents and visitors somehow benefit from cars moving faster on Tryon?

I knew it would be a touchy subject, but love the discussion points!

 

I'm not advocating for faster/higher speed limits, just better efficiency/timing of signals.  It doesn't make sense to me to have the crossings completely independent of the intersection signaling, considering how much research is tied to corridor signal plans, it completely throws a wrench in it.  From  my experience it seems to create gridlock in the mornings/evenings which tends to make drivers more aggressive (possibly leading to more fender bender type accidents vs pedestrian deaths/injuries), but maybe pedestrians have reaped the benefits here and incidents involving cars/pedestrians are wayyyy down since these have been installed.   I'm curious what the stats show for car wrecks/pedestrian safety prior to and post pedestrian crossing signals.  

I just don't see the harm in making 1 person wait 30-90 seconds longer at a pedestrian crossing if it better syncs with traffic signaling up and downstream from their location. 

[kermit]

4 hours ago, CarolinaCrown said:

I just don't see the harm in making 1 person wait 30-90 seconds longer at a pedestrian crossing if it better syncs with traffic signaling up and downstream from their location. 

I generally agree with the earlier portions of your post (particularly the driver aggressiveness part) but this part reminds me of the old urbanest saw: "you can't estimate demand for a new bridge by counting the number of people who swim across the river." It might just be one person waiting to cross now, but extending the wait time is going to make the neighborhood even less pedestrian friendly (and even more autocentric). This is where the harm comes from, and I wonder what the gain would be.  Is there any net benefit to the neighborhood to saving drivers 30-90 seconds?

Edited March 14 by kermit

[nicholas]

7 hours ago, CarolinaCrown said:

I'm not advocating for faster/higher speed limits, just better efficiency/timing of signals.  It doesn't make sense to me to have the crossings completely independent of the intersection signaling, considering how much research is tied to corridor signal plans, it completely throws a wrench in it.  From  my experience it seems to create gridlock in the mornings/evenings which tends to make drivers more aggressive (possibly leading to more fender bender type accidents vs pedestrian deaths/injuries), but maybe pedestrians have reaped the benefits here and incidents involving cars/pedestrians are wayyyy down since these have been installed.   I'm curious what the stats show for car wrecks/pedestrian safety prior to and post pedestrian crossing signals.  

I just don't see the harm in making 1 person wait 30-90 seconds longer at a pedestrian crossing if it better syncs with traffic signaling up and downstream from their location. 

Charlotte has the worst traffic signal coordination I have ever witnessed. I also think it plays into the dangerous driving habits we all see regularly because people get annoyed at catching a red light at every intersection.

[CarolinaCrown]

12 hours ago, kermit said:

I generally agree with the earlier portions of your post (particularly the driver aggressiveness part) but this part reminds me of the old urbanest saw: "you can't estimate demand for a new bridge by counting the number of people who swim across the river." It might just be one person waiting to cross now, but extending the wait time is going to make the neighborhood even less pedestrian friendly (and even more autocentric). This is where the harm comes from, and I wonder what the gain would be.  Is there any net benefit to the neighborhood to saving drivers 30-90 seconds?

Totally agree on the "estimate" aspect and the nuances of economic cost of ppl sitting in traffic vs net benefit gains to the neighborhood are difficult to pin down, as someone who has to traverse this district and not live there I tend to lean towards the economic cost side of the being a higher priority. haha

I think where the costs associated with each option could be best compared is in places where the roads have a "suicide lane" and pedestrian refuges in the street. To me this seems like the spot for a study to take place where the costs/benefits could be more directly compared.  Pedestrian refuges is the option I would prefer along south blvd, if it were a consistent 5 lanes.

Long story short I don't know what, if any, improvements can be made.  I just get to the office super early now to avoid it all 

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, CarolinaCrown said:

Totally agree on the "estimate" aspect and the nuances of economic cost of ppl sitting in traffic vs net benefit gains to the neighborhood are difficult to pin down, as someone who has to traverse this district and not live there I tend to lean towards the economic cost side of the being a higher priority. haha

I think where the costs associated with each option could be best compared is in places where the roads have a "suicide lane" and pedestrian refuges in the street. To me this seems like the spot for a study to take place where the costs/benefits could be more directly compared.  Pedestrian refuges is the option I would prefer along south blvd, if it were a consistent 5 lanes.

Long story short I don't know what, if any, improvements can be made.  I just get to the office super early now to avoid it all 

Given the interest in light rail on this board, is there a big reason you don't commute via light rail if you have to traverse South End which has a light rail line (assuming you are heading Uptown)? I think it is interesting just for understanding why people commute via car along the same route as the train so we can plan a more effective system. 

Edited March 14 by CLT2014

[CarolinaCrown]

7 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Given the interest in light rail on this board, is there a big reason you don't commute via light rail if you have to traverse South End which has a light rail line (assuming you are heading Uptown)? I think it is interesting just for understanding why people commute via car along the same route as the train so we can plan a more effective system. 

I live in Plaza over by Veterans park, so I'd have to have some pit stops/checkpoints to make that work.  If the gold line wasn't abysmal I could think about biking to it transferring uptown to the light rail and riding that down to Scaleybark, but typing that up sounds like it be quite the increase in travel time compared to what's normally about 15/20mins drive.  
I'll put it to the test at some point here in the next few "spring months"

[kermit]

1 hour ago, CarolinaCrown said:

I live in Plaza over by Veterans park, so I'd have to have some pit stops/checkpoints to make that work.  If the gold line wasn't abysmal I could think about biking to it transferring uptown to the light rail and riding that down to Scaleybark, but typing that up sounds like it be quite the increase in travel time compared to what's normally about 15/20mins drive.  
I'll put it to the test at some point here in the next few "spring months"

I am not trying to change your commute, I am just asking a question why you don’t choose to drive from Plaza to 277 to 77 to Clanton road? Seems like it would be the fastest route and it would solve the ped crossing problem?

[back when I drove to UNCC I nearly always avoided taking 85 despite it being much faster just because I hated it]
 

 

Edited March 15 by kermit

[CLT2014]

1 hour ago, CarolinaCrown said:

I live in Plaza over by Veterans park, so I'd have to have some pit stops/checkpoints to make that work.  If the gold line wasn't abysmal I could think about biking to it transferring uptown to the light rail and riding that down to Scaleybark, but typing that up sounds like it be quite the increase in travel time compared to what's normally about 15/20mins drive.  
I'll put it to the test at some point here in the next few "spring months"

Makes sense. I don't blame you for driving. Our system is still too hub and spoke based through Uptown which results in public transit commutes that can be 2x driving your own car if you need to connect. While Charlotte has "bad" traffic, it still hasn't reached a critical disaster point for many commuters. Case in point being able to drive from Plaza to Scaleybark in ~20 minutes, but it would take 35 minutes via a combo of Bus 9 and the light rail. 

One of the biggest areas we haven't addressed in the transit plan is the "non-Uptown" commuter. Many traffic patterns are an arch commute for example. East Charlotte -> South Park. Plaza -> South End. Steele Creek -> Ballantyne, et... These types of commutes will still need to be via car even after the transit plan (which probably won't happen in its current form anyhow). 

Edited March 15 by CLT2014

[CarolinaCrown]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

I am not trying to change your commute, I am just asking a question why you don’t choose to drive from Plaza to 277 to 77 to Clanton road? Seems like it would be the fastest route and it would solve the ped crossing problem?

[back when I drove to UNCC I nearly always avoided taking 85 despite it being much faster just because I hated it]
 

 

Good point, I need to try this again since I relegated myself to just coming in early to avoid the south blvd shenanigans.  My experience initially with that route was the 277 to 77 merge was not a fun start to the morning (but wasn't coming in as early then).  More aggressiveness on the interstate vs surface streets.  I'd probably be beating the merge/congestion there that early in the morning just like south blvd.

I've got some homework to do. I'll compare the three route options over the next couple weeks months and check back in with my "analytics" haha

2 hours ago, CLT2014 said:

Makes sense. I don't blame you for driving. Our system is still too hub and spoke based through Uptown which results in public transit commutes that can be 2x driving your own car if you need to connect. While Charlotte has "bad" traffic, it still hasn't reached a critical disaster point for many commuters. Case in point being able to drive from Plaza to Scaleybark in ~20 minutes, but it would take 35 minutes via a combo of Bus 9 and the light rail. 

One of the biggest areas we haven't addressed in the transit plan is the "non-Uptown" commuter. Many traffic patterns are an arch commute for example. East Charlotte -> South Park. Plaza -> South End. Steele Creek -> Ballantyne, et... These types of commutes will still need to be via car even after the transit plan (which probably won't happen in its current form anyhow). 

100% ^

[davidclt]

Sorry, posted in wrong thread. See this thread: 

 

Edited March 15 by davidclt

[KJHburg]

@Kermit this thread really should be renamed as it is pedestrians who are endangered by vehicles in most of these cases.

Check this out in front of the Charlotte Beer Garden on S Tryon this morning.  Someone knocked over a signpost and killed a tree.  I sure hope the person insurance will pay for all this damage.  

[AltNative]

thats a little too close for comfort with that huge patio right there