CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

Mecklenburg and Wake are nearly the same size.

Mecklenburg is also missing the equivalent of Durham on its boundary to siphon off sales.

Wake is geographically much larger than Meck. Population is nearly the same.  Similar to Fulton vs Gwinnett in GA. 

[JacksonH]

3 hours ago, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

Wake is geographically much larger than Meck. Population is nearly the same.  Similar to Fulton vs Gwinnett in GA. 

I've been spending countless hours taking Google tours through downtown Raleigh.  It appears to be maybe 30% larger than downtown Raleigh in area.  Charlotte is certainly taller, but Raleigh is wider thanks to the fact that they didn't bulldoze 2/3 of their downtown.  I would like to visit Raleigh after seeing this.  It looks so beautiful with so much of its historic architecture (big and small) still intact, lots of shops, restaurants and outdoor cafes, and some beautiful parks.   Old blending in beautifully with new.  I'm particularly intrigued by the Wolfe St./Blake St. area, which looks very lively and very charming; but also other areas along Blount, Hargett and Martin, and the Five Points area, Pullen Park, and the Warehouse District.  It's so much more than I expected.  I didn't realize Raleigh had a vibe.  I thought it was all suburban hell.  In the late 1800s, Charlotte and Raleigh were about the same size.  What I'm seeing in downtown Raleigh is probably a good indication of what Charlotte had, but then blew up.  Such a tragedy.

[SgtCampsalot]

10 hours ago, JacksonH said:

I've been spending countless hours taking Google tours through downtown Raleigh.  It appears to be maybe 30% larger than downtown Raleigh in area.  Charlotte is certainly taller, but Raleigh is wider thanks to the fact that they didn't bulldoze 2/3 of their downtown.  I would like to visit Raleigh after seeing this.  It looks so beautiful with so much of its historic architecture (big and small) still intact, lots of shops, restaurants and outdoor cafes, and some beautiful parks.   Old blending in beautifully with new.  I'm particularly intrigued by the Wolfe St./Blake St. area, which looks very lively and very charming; but also other areas along Blount, Hargett and Martin, and the Five Points area, Pullen Park, and the Warehouse District.  It's so much more than I expected.  I didn't realize Raleigh had a vibe.  I thought it was all suburban hell.  In the late 1800s, Charlotte and Raleigh were about the same size.  What I'm seeing in downtown Raleigh is probably a good indication of what Charlotte had, but then blew up.  Such a tragedy.

I never went to downtown Raleigh until about 2010, and I literally CRIED at how all of the nooks and crannies of old buildings just go on, and on, and on, around seemingly every corner. It is truly magnificent. 

If i didnt have seripus roots here I wouldve moved to Raleigh. But Charlotte and Raleigh are just different beasts. Charlotte is doing really well on transit and connectivity, and that is its own value.

Edited March 6, 2018 by SgtCampsalot

[archiham04]

10 hours ago, JacksonH said:

I've been spending countless hours taking Google tours through downtown Raleigh.  It appears to be maybe 30% larger than downtown Raleigh in area.  Charlotte is certainly taller, but Raleigh is wider thanks to the fact that they didn't bulldoze 2/3 of their downtown.  I would like to visit Raleigh after seeing this.  It looks so beautiful with so much of its historic architecture (big and small) still intact, lots of shops, restaurants and outdoor cafes, and some beautiful parks.   Old blending in beautifully with new.  I'm particularly intrigued by the Wolfe St./Blake St. area, which looks very lively and very charming; but also other areas along Blount, Hargett and Martin, and the Five Points area, Pullen Park, and the Warehouse District.  It's so much more than I expected.  I didn't realize Raleigh had a vibe.  I thought it was all suburban hell.  In the late 1800s, Charlotte and Raleigh were about the same size.  What I'm seeing in downtown Raleigh is probably a good indication of what Charlotte had, but then blew up.  Such a tragedy.

I think Raleigh had a more developed downtown district than Charlotte.  They may have been about the same size, but the proportion of "city folk" was probably much higher.  I think Charlotte was much more argricultural and Mill town feeling in those days.   Raleigh, as the state capital had state agencies, lawyers, professional services etc.  Those were the types that were more apt to build multi-story urban masonry buildings.  

[JacksonH]

13 hours ago, archiham04 said:

I think Raleigh had a more developed downtown district than Charlotte.  They may have been about the same size, but the proportion of "city folk" was probably much higher.  I think Charlotte was much more argricultural and Mill town feeling in those days.   Raleigh, as the state capital had state agencies, lawyers, professional services etc.  Those were the types that were more apt to build multi-story urban masonry buildings.  

You make a very good point.  I never thought of that.  Raleigh was a planned city, perhaps the only planned city in the state.  But the intention was always for it to be a city when it was established in 1792.  Charlotte, I guess, became a city without trying and with no plan to get there.  Just happened to due economic circumstances in the area.   I found this on Wikipedia about Raleigh's design:  "No known city or town existed previously on the chosen city site. Raleigh is one of the few cities in the United States that was planned and built specifically to serve as a state capital. Its original boundaries were formed by the downtown streets of North, East, West and South.^[16] The plan, a grid with two main axes meeting at a central square and an additional square in each corner, was based on Thomas Holme's 1682 plan for Philadelphia."  The orderly way it was planned out, with parks and designated areas for the government buildings (like DC) gives it a special feeling among cities in the state.  At least I'm getting that special feeling from my Google Maps virtual tour!  Such a charming place.

I grew up near Greensboro and have been there hundreds of times.  But shamefully, in my entire life I've only been in Raleigh four times.  The last time was in the early '90s, but I don't remember actually going into downtown.  Prior to that I was there in the late '80s (around '87) to visit a friend who lived in the suburbs, so I didn't see downtown on that trip, either.  And before that, in 1979, I was there when we took my sister to college -- Peace, which is on the northern edge of downtown.  I don't remember actually going into the city.  The only time I remember being in downtown Raleigh was a grade school trip to the science museum circa 1972!  That's too far back to remember.  I've always assumed Raleigh was kind of like Greensboro (slow and boring and suburban).  But really, Greensboro grew up similarly to the way you describe Charlotte: around mills and agriculture. 

 

15 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

I never went to downtown Raleigh until about 2010, and I literally CRIED at how all of the nooks and crannies of old buildings just go on, and on, and on, around seemingly every corner. It is truly magnificent. 

If i didnt have seripus roots here I wouldve moved to Raleigh. But Charlotte and Raleigh are just different beasts. Charlotte is doing really well on transit and connectivity, and that is its own value.

I understand what you're saying.  I lived in Charlotte for seven years in the '80s.  It was a boom town then and seems to have been booming ever since.  So even though I've spent the last three decades living elsewhere, I remain fascinated by the changes going on in Charlotte.  There was a Charlotte Observer writer named Doug Robarchek who wrote a regular column about the growth and excitement and happenings in Charlotte.  In the days before Urban Planet and other Internet sites, he was the guy who had all the info.  I read his column religiously and he helped me get hooked on what's going on there, even from afar (moved out of state but had the Charlotte Observer mailed to me for awhile).  He was a funny guy who had sort of a running feud with the newspaper in Richmond -- a Charlotte versus Richmond thing.  I was in Richmond one time visiting relatives there, reading the local paper one morning, and they were bashing Charlotte.  I cut out the article and mailed it to Doug Robarchek, and sure enough in his next column in the Charlotte Observer, he went after that guy from the Richmond paper.  I loved that!  Made me laugh and gave me some personal satisfaction. 

Back to Raleigh, anyone who wants to explore this very walkable downtown, this recent column from Charlotte Agenda suggests a good way to do it:  take Amtrak from Charlotte to Raleigh.  The Raleigh station is right downtown.  There's a Marriott a few blocks away from the station.  Just check in and then start exploring.  It could be a fun weekend, just hanging out in downtown (shops, museums, parks, architecture, restaurants, cafes, pubs, beautiful Victorian neighborhoods).  And checking out that chocolate place she mentions!  https://www.charlotteagenda.com/118373/everything-need-know-riding-amtrak-train-charlotte-raleigh-beyond/  

Here are a some pictures I took from Google (and I have many more) of that charming downtown that has totally enchanted me.

 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by JacksonH

[15895]

The pictures I liked the most looked like uptown (North Tryon and Graham.)

 

[videtur quam contuor]

Raleigh location was determined to be within ten miles of the tavern of Isaac Hunter. Decision was assisted by tavern owner known for serving "cherry bounce" which was cherries, sugar, and whiskey.

(Maybe)

http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/a-brief-history-of-drinking-in-raleigh/

Edited March 7, 2018 by tarhoosier

[deleted]

^

These are great pictures of Raleigh but you can find a lot of these types of buildings in Plaza Midwood, NODA, Dilworth, Elizabeth, Fourth Ward, the re-purposing of mills on N Tryon, Southend, etc.  Like everyone else, I'm sorry that we cleared a lot of historical buildings but there are more around than we sometimes acknowledge.

BTW, it would be great if we better utilized the remaining stock that we have.  A prime example is the Cotton Mill on 5th.  This should be something much better than it is and perhaps the coming development in the area will help.

This will be my only post on the topic since we have strayed from transit...

[JacksonH]

3 hours ago, JBS said:

^

These are great pictures of Raleigh but you can find a lot of these types of buildings in Plaza Midwood, NODA, Dilworth, Elizabeth, Fourth Ward, the re-purposing of mills on N Tryon, Southend, etc.  Like everyone else, I'm sorry that we cleared a lot of historical buildings but there are more around than we sometimes acknowledge.

BTW, it would be great if we better utilized the remaining stock that we have.  A prime example is the Cotton Mill on 5th.  This should be something much better than it is and perhaps the coming development in the area will help.

This will be my only post on the topic since we have strayed from transit...

You need to take a Google tour of Raleigh.  Yes, you can find some buildings like this in those places in Charlotte, but Raleigh has multiple times more.  Elizabeth is literally like one block, and only one side of the street (!).  Plaza Midwood and NODA are just a couple blocks.  There are many blocks of this in Raleigh.   It's many times more in Raleigh.  And take the Victorian homes in Fourth Ward and multiply that by about 20 and you have the comparable neighborhoods in Raleigh.  And there's a certain grace about the way downtown Raleigh is laid out.  It's a very different experience.  As described in that link I provided, I think it would be fun to take Amtrak to Raleigh for a weekend and spend the whole time touring downtown by foot.

I do agree with your comment that Charlotte needs to utilize what it has.  Don't tear down any more of these structures!  Build around them and fill in the gaps with new buildings but similar styles, like Crave and Camden Cotton Mills apartments.  Those buildings have been repurposed and look gorgeous.  There are new buildings surrounding them that have similar styles and blend in wonderfully.  There are still a lot of empty lots in that area.  I hope they do the same with them.

On the topic of transit (although this thread isn't about the Gold line) I am one who is a fan of the old style trolleys traveling through these neighborhoods.  They look very appropriate there.  It's fine and logical to have a more modern look for the silver, red and blue lines, but I hope they keep the old trolley look for the Gold Line.

As for the airport line, I know there has been talk of extending it to the proposed River District.  I wish that would be extended into Gaston County, into Belmont and Gastonia.  I think there is great potential for DT Gastonia as an entertainment center, and that would boost the Charlotte region in general.  DT Gastonia has an historic infrastructure that UP Charlotte has lost.  And, of course, UP Charlotte is something DT Gastonia can never be.  Having a connection like that between UP Charlotte and DT Gastonia would be mutually beneficial IMO. 

Finally, I hope some rich and generous person can step in and get things moving on the Lakewood Trolley/Savona Mill projects (I so love the idea of a place where people can go watch artisans performing their craft).  THAT would be a game-changer for Charlotte.

Edited March 7, 2018 by JacksonH

[JacksonH]

3 hours ago, tarhoosier said:

Raleigh location was determined to be within ten miles of the tavern of Isaac Hunter. Decision was assisted by tavern owner known for serving "cherry bounce" which was cherries, sugar, and whiskey.

(Maybe)

http://www.newraleigh.com/articles/archive/a-brief-history-of-drinking-in-raleigh/

Wow, old Raleigh sounds like the Wild West!

[CLT2014]

2 hours ago, JacksonH said:

As for the airport line, I know there has been talk of extending it to the proposed River District.  I wish that would be extended into Gaston County, into Belmont and Gastonia.  I think there is great potential for DT Gastonia as an entertainment center, and that would boost the Charlotte region in general.  DT Gastonia has an historic infrastructure that UP Charlotte has lost.  And, of course, UP Charlotte is something DT Gastonia can never be.  Having a connection like that between UP Charlotte and DT Gastonia would be mutually beneficial IMO. 

I don't know if there is much appetite in Gaston County to cough up money to fund light rail construction over the river to their county. Mecklenburg doesn't even have enough funds to build light rail within the county paying for it through the sales tax increase, so Gaston County would have to fund their portion and I don't think locals would vote to tax themselves. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by CLT2014

[dubone]

MOD NOTE: Please return to the topic.   City vs city debates are rarely on topic.   Raleigh is a great city that can be discussed here: 

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/208-the-nc-triangle/

 

 

[JacksonH]

10 minutes ago, dubone said:

MOD NOTE: Please return to the topic.   City vs city debates are rarely on topic.   Raleigh is a great city that can be discussed here: 

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/forum/208-the-nc-triangle/

 

 

The Raleigh discussion is for reflecting on what opportunities Charlotte might have to bring more vibrancy and character into its downtown.  Which is why I was discussing areas like Crave/Cotton Mills Apartments in my post just above, and the use of the trolley in those areas and possible extension of the airport line into DT Gastonia.

26 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I don't know if there is much appetite in Gaston County to cough up money to fund light rail construction over the river to their county. Mecklenburg doesn't even have enough funds to build light rail within the county paying for it through the sales tax increase, so Gaston County would have to fund their portion and I don't think locals would vote to tax themselves. 

But aren't there existing unused rail lines already?  It seems the airport extension could connect to those.  Gaston should only have to participate in refurbishing those old lines and help with maintenance of the trains coming there.  There's the old saying that you have to spend money to make money.  If they never invest in anything, there will never be a return.  I know there's always a lot of griping in Gastonia about spending money, but they need a little foresight.

[CLT2014]

16 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

But aren't there existing unused rail lines already?  It seems the airport extension could connect to those.  Gaston should only have to participate in refurbishing those old lines and help with maintenance of the trains coming there.  There's the old saying that you have to spend money to make money.  If they never invest in anything, there will never be a return.  I know there's always a lot of griping in Gastonia about spending money, but they need a little foresight.

Where is the unused rail line bridge? The rail bridge closest to where the River District will go (with Muddy River Distillery on the Belmont side), is the Northfolk Southern route to the airport intermodal terminal. 

I'm not aware of another rail crossing anywhere in that vicinity. There are some all the way up by Mt. Holly owned by CSX. All are active though. 

A new bridge would have to be built over the river at Gaston County expense for light rail. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by CLT2014

[kermit]

18 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

But aren't there existing unused rail lines already?

Not really. The most direct route, Norfolk Southern which runs past the airport, is unlikely to be shared with commuter rail and certainly won't be shared with light rail. The Piedmont and Northern route is much more sparsely used and (mostly) owned by the state but it is a circuitous route (you gotta go to Mt. Holly and Spencer Mountain before getting to Gastonia and it essentially bypasses Belmont) so its not likely to be of much use for transit of any kind. (and CSX actually owns the bridge that the P&N uses to cross the Catawba in Mt. Holly)

If the Allen Steam station is shut down there is the possibility of reusing some heavy rail ROW to get from an as-yet unplanned river district bridge up close to Belmont but that is about it.

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

Edited March 7, 2018 by kermit

[JacksonH]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

Where is the unused rail line bridge? The rail bridge closest to where the River District will go (with Muddy River Distillery on the Belmont side), is the Northfolk Southern route to the airport intermodal terminal. 

I'm not aware of another rail crossing anywhere in that vicinity. There are some all the way up by Mt. Holly owned by CSX. All are active though. 

A new bridge would have to be built over the river at Gaston County expense for light rail. 

Maybe I'm mistaken or confused.  I was in a discussion in another forum awhile back and I thought I recall someone saying the tracks were not being used.  I'm probably thinking of the tracks owned by Norfolk Southern.  If I have time, I'll try to track down that discussion to see what was said.  In any case, here's a picture of the tracks from Amos Smith Rd., not far from where they cross the Catawba River.  I suppose for metro rail there would need to be dual tracks?  And that would be costly.  Rail could do so much for this region, connecting all these areas together.  Too bad it's not free!

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Not really. The most direct route, Norfolk Southern which runs past the airport, is unlikely to be shared with commuter rail and certainly won't be shared with light rail. The Piedmont and Northern route is much more sparsely used and (mostly) owned by the state but it is a circuitous route (you gotta go to Mt. Holly and Spencer Mountain before getting to Gastonia and it essentially bypasses Belmont) so its not likely to be of much use for transit of any kind. (and CSX actually owns the bridge that the P&N uses to cross the Catawba in Mt. Holly)

If the Allen Steam station is shut down there is the possibility of reusing some heavy rail ROW to get from an as-yet unplanned river district bridge up close to Belmont but that is about it.

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

Well maybe I was thinking about Piedmont and Northern, or what you're saying about the Allen Steam station.  Thanks for that.   And that's a great link, by the way.  

It would be preferable to go though Belmont, of course.  That NS route (which I understand is off limits) also goes by McAdenville.  I went on a virtual tour there the other day and, although there are many buildings, I thought the town and surroundings were very picturesque.

Edited March 7, 2018 by JacksonH

[JacksonH]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

The most direct route, Norfolk Southern which runs past the airport, is unlikely to be shared with commuter rail and certainly won't be shared with light rail. The Piedmont and Northern route is much more sparsely used and (mostly) owned by the state but it is a circuitous route (you gotta go to Mt. Holly and Spencer Mountain before getting to Gastonia and it essentially bypasses Belmont) so its not likely to be of much use for transit of any kind. (and CSX actually owns the bridge that the P&N uses to cross the Catawba in Mt. Holly)

https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

I'm posting a picture below illustrating those routes.  The image is from the link you provided.

[Third Strike]

I think commuter rail to Gastonia would only work if a third rail was constructed alongside the existing NS Line. Same with the Red Line, and the other corridors that are owned by freight companies. I still think the ACWR route would make an excellent candidate for true high speed rail from here to Raleigh.

[JacksonH]

1 hour ago, Third Strike said:

I think commuter rail to Gastonia would only work if a third rail was constructed alongside the existing NS Line. Same with the Red Line, and the other corridors that are owned by freight companies. I still think the ACWR route would make an excellent candidate for true high speed rail from here to Raleigh.

I like all those ideas!  Regarding the last one, is there actually talk about high-speed rail to Raleigh?  Creating that kind of connectivity between the two most important cities in the state I would think would be great for the North Carolina economy.  Charlotte and Raleigh business leaders could have a more cooperative and less adversarial relationship.  What benefits one would benefit the other.  Companies interested in coming to North Carolina would have one less reason to have to  choose one city over the other, or move to Atlanta.    Apart from cost, I can only imagine an upside to high-speed rail.

[kermit]

4 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

 is there actually talk about high-speed rail to Raleigh? 

Yes, but just talk. The current route could possibly get bumped up to 90mph (from 80mph) without a much additional cost (the original Piedmont Improvement Project was designed to do that but they wussed out on the actual implementation -- perhaps it was PTC related). Its also theoretically possible get passenger rail on the NCRR up to 110mph for much of it (but there will be some cost to this speed). If/When SEHSR happens we should see at least 90mph service on the current CLT-GSO-RGH route.

The longgggg term talk of true HSR between Charlotte, Raleigh and the NE Corridor involves using the ACWR row as new build track. There is NO funding, NO plan to get funding and discussion of the topic has essentially died since 2009. That may be a good thing, I think its kinda politically unpalatable -- the Triad would be justifiably ticked about getting bypassed.  TLDR: Not in any of our lifetimes.

[orulz]

I think there is a realistic possibility of eventually electrifying the NCRR and raising the speeds to 125-150mph. They've done a lot of work on closing grade crossings and straightening curves already. "Traffic Separation Studies" are either complete, underway, or planned that would deal with most of the rest of the grade crossings. Feasibility studies have already been done on adding more tracks and  other major curve realignments to increase speeds.

A direct Raleigh-Charlotte route that bypasses the triad and somehow turns the meandering ACWR into a true high speed route did somehow make its way into the state rail plan at some point but I don't regard that as especially realistic or even all that desirable. If you can get to the point where a full express can cover the 173 rail miles in under two hours, in my opinion, that's probably fast enough - full stop.

My long-term vision for passenger rail in the state would have a mix of local and express trains.

Express trains would have just 3 stops, which would be Charlotte-Greensboro-Raleigh, along the NCRR. Determine what it will take to get that run time under 2 hours (1:55) and let that define the budget.

Limted  stop trains would have 6 stops, which would be Charlotte-Salisbury-High Point-Greensboro-Durham-Raleigh, along the NCRR.  2 hours 30 minutes.

Local trains would have 14 stops, following the WSSB through Winston-Salem. Charlotte-Harrisburg-Concord-Kannapolis-Salisbury-Lexington-Winston-Salem-Kernersville-Greensboro-Burlington-Hillsborough-Durham-Cary-Raleigh. Run time 3 hours 15 minutes.

Westbound express trains would be scheduled to overtake locals at the platform in Greensboro, while eastbound Limited trains would overtake locals at the platform in Salisbury or Lexington. Some day I might make a string diagram for all this.

Of course there would be commuter trains on top of all of this... considering freight, two tracks is not enough...  Ah, a train nerd can dream, can't he?

[Third Strike]

19 hours ago, kermit said:

Yes, but just talk. The current route could possibly get bumped up to 90mph (from 80mph) without a much additional cost (the original Piedmont Improvement Project was designed to do that but they wussed out on the actual implementation -- perhaps it was PTC related). Its also theoretically possible get passenger rail on the NCRR up to 110mph for much of it (but there will be some cost to this speed). If/When SEHSR happens we should see at least 90mph service on the current CLT-GSO-RGH route.

The longgggg term talk of true HSR between Charlotte, Raleigh and the NE Corridor involves using the ACWR row as new build track. There is NO funding, NO plan to get funding and discussion of the topic has essentially died since 2009. That may be a good thing, I think its kinda politically unpalatable -- the Triad would be justifiably ticked about getting bypassed.  TLDR: Not in any of our lifetimes.

I think it would be bs for the Triad to stand against such a project. The state already sinks a large amount of capital in the metro, with having  the most amount of interstate routes and spurs in the state, along with two interstate loops planned, and Greensboro is at a three-way junction with Amtrak routes. Not to mention they’re still going to benefit from the NCRR being upgraded to higher speeds.

[SgtCampsalot]

22 hours ago, kermit said:

Yes, but just talk. The current route could possibly get bumped up to 90mph (from 80mph) without a much additional cost (the original Piedmont Improvement Project was designed to do that but they wussed out on the actual implementation -- perhaps it was PTC related). Its also theoretically possible get passenger rail on the NCRR up to 110mph for much of it (but there will be some cost to this speed). If/When SEHSR happens we should see at least 90mph service on the current CLT-GSO-RGH route.

The longgggg term talk of true HSR between Charlotte, Raleigh and the NE Corridor involves using the ACWR row as new build track. There is NO funding, NO plan to get funding and discussion of the topic has essentially died since 2009. That may be a good thing, I think its kinda politically unpalatable -- the Triad would be justifiably ticked about getting bypassed.  TLDR: Not in any of our lifetimes.

So, whole not true high-speed, the PIP has still made things faster (with less wayside track-sitting of passenger trains for freight to pass), right? 

[kermit]

11 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

So, whole not true high-speed, the PIP has still made things faster (with less wayside track-sitting of passenger trains for freight to pass), right? 

The direct CLT-RGH (along the ACWR route) was true high speed (but also true pie-in-sky). The NCRR is wide enough to add two additional tracks which could (potentially) be true HSR although I think there would need to be some property acquisition to straighten curves (but no one is discussing this).

The PIP did substantially improve reliability and on time performance. It also increased capacity (which will allow the 4th frequency to start in June and the 5th in a couple years). Unfortunately the just punted on the speed increase (which AFAIK, is more of a regulatory than an infrastructure decision).

EDIT: Back when the ARRA was open NCDOT probably could have gotten $1 billion (rather than their $500 million) for electrification and 110mph service on the NCRR if they had just asked. They may have also gotten even more $ when Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin decided to reject their cash.  NCDOT decided to be conservative and go for the incremental improvement instead. Hindsight, yada yada....

Edited March 8, 2018 by kermit

[dubone]

It'd likely be cheaper to obtain the right of way along the NCRR versus start from semi-scratch on the ACWR alternative.   

For NC point of view, at least it is relatively competitive with driving now due to the PIP.  

 

I'm still burned up that the ARRA money that was going to fix the mainline crossing next to NC Music Factory was canceled and shifted out of Charlotte.   It is a major impact to Fourth Ward from noise, but the freight companies really do not like any disruption in operations, even if it is for their long term benefit.    But that intersection will be a hassle some day for the Red Line and the potential northern route through uptown for the Silver Line to connect to the airport corridor.