CATS Long Term Transit Plan - Silver, Red Lines

[lit]

11 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Cities like Charlotte are far to car centric to sacrifice car convenience in any way for the sake of mass transit. That's the quickest way to lose public support.

Has Charlotte ever considered monorail? It would be able to access high density areas without as much road interaction.

I always thought a monorail would have been awesome. They recently built one in Brazil for $50-million per mile. If we'd spent our toll lane money ($660-million) on a monorail, that would have bought us 13.2 miles. Trade Street (exit 10) to Huntersville (exit 23) is 13 miles. People complain about bumpy rides but I rode the one in Vegas and it wasn't that bad. 

[Windsurfer]

11 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Cities like Charlotte are far to car centric to sacrifice car convenience in any way for the sake of mass transit. That's the quickest way to lose public support.

Has Charlotte ever considered monorail? It would be able to access high density areas without as much road interaction.

It comes up every now and then. When I brought it up here a couple of years ago I learned very quickly just how expensive it is. Unbelievable!  The monorail they built back in the 70's at Carowinds seemed like nothing more than a steel girder. However the one in Las Vegas seems much more expensive. Still, the one in Las Vegas allows for life to continue unimpeded below. Light rail does bisect neighborhoods and creates barriers. Bruton Smith argued for one out to his speedway several years ago, even offering 50 million towards its construction.

[archiham04]

the last city to fall for that boondoggle was Springfield I think....

Edited July 25, 2017 by archiham04

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

It comes up every now and then. When I brought it up here a couple of years ago I learned very quickly just how expensive it is. Unbelievable!  The monorail they built back in the 70's at Carowinds seemed like nothing more than a steel girder. However the one in Las Vegas seems much more expensive. Still, the one in Las Vegas allows for life to continue unimpeded below. Light rail does bisect neighborhoods and creates barriers. Bruton Smith argued for one out to his speedway several years ago, even offering 50 million towards its construction.

omg, I forgot Carowinds had a monorail!!!!

[KJHburg]

The Carowinds monorail was disassembled and sent to a resort in Mexico. 

[ah59396]

2 hours ago, archiham04 said:

the last city to fall for that boondoggle was Springfield I think....

Well to be fair, it did put Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook on the map....there's nothin' on earth like a genuine bona-fide electrified six-car monorail

[SgtCampsalot]

But Main Street's still all cracked and broken!

[UPNoDa]

I know it's not really an actual monorail equal to Vegas but would something like the Miami Metromover work in Charlotte taking the cost into consideration?

 

[grodney]

Getting off the train this morning, I was handed a glossy 8.5x11 from the CRTP about going to www.2045mtp.org to learn about planned projects and more importantly give public feedback.

[Nick2]

Awesome idea to help get public comment. Especially giving the info to people actually using public transit!

[southslider]

^Comment #1- add at least one or more TRANSIT projects to the MTP between 2025 and 2045 (current draft has zilch).

[tozmervo]

22 hours ago, southslider said:

^Comment #1- add at least one or more TRANSIT projects to the MTP between 2025 and 2045 (current draft has zilch).

That's more or less what my comment was

[tozmervo]

I'm becoming concerned. A total eclipse is just 3 weeks away, and CATS just released their mobile payments app. The end times are neigh. 

edit: it appears to only be valid for LYNX so far. crisis averted, they haven't actually got a smart payment system in place yet. 

Edited July 31, 2017 by tozmervo

[kermit]

Some rare good news for Charlotte transit finance (RE west line to airport):

I stumbled across the news that the FAA was considering (in June 2016) a change in regulations to allow passenger facility fees (the airport facility charge that we pay on every ticket) to be used for rail connections to and from the airport (this has been prohibited).

https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=85526

The only news I can find is related to the consideration of the new policy, I can't find any announcements that the policy has been adopted. If adopted this could be a significant (but not huge) deal for CATS as it could potentially finance both an intercity rail station (on NS) as well as the on-airport portions of a west LRT. Some airport cash plus free ROW at the airport and river district could take a decent bite out of costs for this line.

EDIT: of course this is all dependent on the NCGA not resuming their jihad against local political control.

 

Edited July 31, 2017 by kermit

[southslider]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:50 AM, tozmervo said:

it appears to only be valid for LYNX so far.

End times and full system integration are far from near. Just once I'd like to see CATS treats its bus system like its LYNX system.

Segregation now ... segregation forever.

[kermit]

Chicago is working on integrating its extensive bike share system with its transit fare card system (so you can tap your fare card to get a bike). Los Angeles is also working on the same transit / bikeshare structure but appears to be dragging its feet on implementation.

Nothing in the way of starting this same process here..... (other than the emergence of a second, separate, bike share system at the end of the BLE)

http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/city-working-on-ventra-divvy-integration/amp/

 

[archiham04]

This article made me think of Charlotte's long term transit planning.  The one explanation for how our system of EXTREME bus inefficiency has been allowed to linger for decades without urgency to address.

Edited August 15, 2017 by archiham04

[JoshuaDrown]

On 8/14/2017 at 7:08 PM, kermit said:

Chicago is working on integrating its extensive bike share system with its transit fare card system (so you can tap your fare card to get a bike). Los Angeles is also working on the same transit / bikeshare structure but appears to be dragging its feet on implementation.

Nothing in the way of starting this same process here..... (other than the emergence of a second, separate, bike share system at the end of the BLE)

http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/city-working-on-ventra-divvy-integration/amp/

 

FWIW, at the Mayoral Forum for Sustainability, Mayor Roberts answered a question about bike and pedestrian safety, and our hub and spoke bus transit inefficiency, by saying the city was looking at, or had on its radar, a transit fare solution that would lnclude CATS and LYNX, and they were having conversations with ways to include Uber and Lyft... I don't recall if she mentioned B-Cycle. 

A true one fare system, that also includes "last mile" solutions like Uber or Lyft, as well as bike and car share, is critical for people to understand the real costs of transit and make informed decisions about giving up their cars. Imagine being able to clearly show customers that they could spend $250 on total monthly transit instead of the $400 or $500 or $600 they spend on their car, insurance, and gas.

Now imagine this individual had the opportunity to go to their apartment complex and remove the car storage portion of their rent from their total rent. 

 

23 hours ago, archiham04 said:

This article made me think of Charlotte's long term transit planning.  The one explanation for how our system of EXTREME bus inefficiency has been allowed to linger for decades without urgency to address.

^This... "The city has this special feature: It functions for anyone only if it functions for almost everyone.  You can say this about society in general, but only in the city is this fact so brutally obvious as to be unavoidable."

In the midst of Charlotte's upward social and economic mobility crisis, we have continually turned our backs on providing efficient transit solutions for the community at large, and especially those that need it most. This city doesn't work for so many of its citizens... bus and transit riders, cyclists, pedestrians. We have to stop prioritizing the single occupancy vehicle, and instead build a City for All. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by JoshuaDrown

[southslider]

Elite projection is a fallacy, but so is elite empathy for captive markets. Thinking of transit as a service for the disadvantaged is Charlotte''s greater hurdle to better bus system design. 

Serve the masses and their concentrated needs more efficiently to grow ridership.  Or design bus routes to cover every dispersed need to continue wasting limited resources.

[kermit]

Selected items from the September CATS Quarterly Report to the FTA

http://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/FTA Quarterly/FTA-Quarterly-Agenda-170907.pdf

Ridership:

• Systemwide ridership is down 11% YOY. All services except for the Gold Line are down.

BLE:

•          All but two of the 22 new LRVs are ready for service
•          Revenue Service date has slipped from January 16, 2018 (which slipped since the previous report’s late December open date) to February 15, 2018 (pdf p26)
•          RE delays with NS Freight track relocation around 36^th street (pdf 26): “Currently the contractor is projecting that NS will complete the Freight Track Relocation by the end of August 2017” (they didn’t make it)

Gold Line Phase 2:

•          There was some strange activity with contingency amounts that I can’t make sense of (pdf 100)
•          RSD is now listed as May 31, 2020 (changed from August 31, 2020 – I think this may be a reporting error, the August date is still mentioned elsewhere)
•          Balfour Beaty is not involved in Gold Line work (Johnson Brothers was awarded the primary construction contract)
•          Vehicle delivery (first vehicle) is scheduled for October 2019
•          There is some concern that trackwork for Gateway station (bridge rebuilding over GL tracks) may delay the Gold Line (pdf 118)
•          The USDOT/FTA technical assistance grant received for the West End area will used to realign zoning in the area to facilitate TOD (pdf 149) something that REALLY should have happened along the BLE. It sounds like the grant will essentially just pay for a new neighborhood plan.

Economic Development:

I am not sure if these are new numbers or not (historically CATS has been slow to update these figures). In addition the methodology used (proximity) is kinda questionable since they imply that all the development is a product of project construction. So “caveat emptor.” (starting pdf 151)

•          BLE: $347 million (quite a few of the listed projects have a $0 value)
•          GL phase 1 and 2: $395 million (an audible scoff can be heard as I type this)

Gateway Station:

•          The TIGER VII grant ($30 million) should be signed and finalized later this month
•          It sounds like $27 million of new funds have been obtained from the “NC STI program” and $15 million in new funds from the “STP Direct Allocation Funds”
•          90% engineering for track and signal work is scheduled to be completed this month

Corridor System Plan Update (pdf 156)

•          Alternatives analysis for the West and North Corridors is scheduled to be complete December 2018. This should include mode choice (only rail options are listed as possibilities FWIW), corridor integration with existing lines, Gateway and the Silver Line, and preliminary cost estimates for the North, West and Silver corridors
•          Part of the above process will include long term planning for additional future corridors beyond those in the 2030 plan (a 50-100 year horizon is mentioned)
•          A “project management team kick off workshop was held on August 30^th” this included reps from CLT and Mooresville.
•          Public workshops will be held in October and November (pdf 158 for schedule and locations)
•          CCOG is currently conducting outreach for the development of a regional transit plan (Cabarrus, Gaston, Iredell, Lincoln, Meck, Union and urbanized portions of Lancaster and York counties). Sounds like a regional commuter rail discussion is in our future for Lincolnton, Gastonia, Rock Hill and Monroe (based on public meeting and rail corridor locations).

Sales Tax Revenue:

•          Up $8 million from last year and $14 million since 2015

Edited September 1, 2017 by kermit

[kermit]

The current TIGER grant application period is now open. $500 million is available but this year the program "will give special consideration to projects that emphasize improved access to transportation for rural communities." I suspect that this requirement plus an absence of good local ideas in the sub $25 million range will shut us out.

[Scribe]

@kermit I wouldn't go straight to "shut us out". There is plenty of studies that can and should be done.

I can see improving the rail corridor to Charlotte from both south and north then a grant to study Light Rail to CLT airport.

That improves access to transportation for rural communities. Train gets them to Gateway Station, they jump on LR to CLT and fly out, and vice versa...

[kermit]

^ yea, I agree with you about their being lots of needed plans, but since the TIGER process grew out of the stimulus it has a focus on 'shovel ready' projects.

Edited September 8, 2017 by kermit

[tozmervo]

 

[CLT2014]

That is much more contemporary looking, great design! Only con is grey isn't as easy to see as a bright color for traffic collisions / rain.