Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[Nashvilletitans]

You did, eh?  (hm-m-m-m-m.  this "staff")

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Yep.......... of course are the staff really interest ( and if they are really interested do they have the time -No they had a rigors schedule with lots of deadlines) in rocking the boat.  The staff had a process they were committed to sticking to(which I can respect) and there was not any room for distractions

[Nashvilletitans]

With all the NIMBy's at the meetings it was much safer and quicker to do a plan for 150k for nashville.   And not have to worry so much about the mess of 850k outside nashville and what that means and or how  nashville's only getting 15% of the growth and will that effect our tax base or allocation of money over those years of growth.  

 

The task was to do a nashville next plan with all these people involved thru this long process and congratulations we did it.  that what government is good for and we did it.  And the staff did the best they could.  The mayor can say all this good stuff about the process and get a lot of credit for whatever.  Unfortunately most of the plan will probably not bet done they way it is outlined anyway.  I do believe it was worth effort.  Almost any plan is better than no plan.

[rookzie]

I value my time to much to want to be mayor.  Uh and the friends they have to keep.  There are other ways to help nashville be a great city and change for the future.

 

..and perhaps some of the "friends" in the Whitland neighborhood got "lost", so to speak.  As far as the "other ways" are concerned, I certainly hope that with the advent of the next 2-term period, management can get on board, before it really becomes too late.  "Ignition" is great for "propulsion", but fire will destroy progress.

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[smeagolsfree]

Crane segments coming to Thompson Hotel site as I post this.

[rookzie]

With all the NIMBy's at the meetings it was much safer and quicker to do a plan for 150k for nashville.   And not have to worry so much about the mess of 850k outside nashville and what that means and or how  nashville's only getting 15% of the growth and will that effect our tax base or allocation of money over those years of growth.  

 

The task was to do a nashville next plan with all these people involved thru this long process and congratulations we did it.  that what government is good for and we did it.  And the staff did the best they could.  The mayor can say all this good stuff about the process and get a lot of credit for whatever.  Unfortunately most of the plan will probably not bet done they way it is outlined anyway.  I do believe it was worth effort.  Almost any plan is better than no plan.

 

...a rather sobering assessment (and a welcome one, given the evident "crow's nest" vantage point).  I guess in consideration of what had been the driving force (and spin) behind the plan, we just have that much more to look ahead to in terms of a level of optimism for enlightened horizons, come next term or two.  At least what can be assumed is that the "Gladiator" contestants have to vie that much harder to win divided support this time around.

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[markhollin]

Some of these discussions about traffic flow in CBD in particular, and development in general in CBD could be really good discussion points in meetings with the two primary candidates for the Council for that district in the next election (Freddie O'Connell and Richard Schick).  I propose that several of us Urbanplanet board group folks take a lunch with each of them to get their input on what they will do should they get elected, as well as kindly offer some seasoned advice from our perspective on city planning, reasonable building codes, etc. Same should go for the leading mayoral candidates (perhaps after the initial election that will whittle it down to two contestants in August) on these subjects as well as Mass Transit for all of Metro.  

 

We need to work at helping the government sector better grasp these issues so we don't find ourselves pontificating on the sidelines about this stuff ad nauseum for the next several decades.  We all agree that these issues need focused attention now…and I'm all about action.   

[Nashvilletitans]

...a rather sobering assessment (and a welcome one, given the evident "crow's nest" vantage point).  I guess in consideration of what had been the driving force (and spin) behind the plan, we just have that much more to look ahead to in terms of a level of optimism for enlightened horizons, come next term or two.  At least what can be assumed is that the "Gladiator" contestants have to vie that much harder to win divided support this time around.

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Yes   I found it interesting that the old plan 2010 has been outdated for several years and that the mayor waited to the end of his term to do the new study and plan.  oh course I was hoping for some more controversial discussions and ideas since they intentionally waited till mayors term was not having to run again.  but at least it was done    that is what good leadership is about!

[rookzie]

Some of these discussions about traffic flow in CBD in particular, and development in general in CBD could be really good discussion points in meetings with the two primary candidates for the Council for that district in the next election (Freddie O'Connell and Richard Schick).  I propose that several of us Urbanplanet board group folks take a lunch with each of them to get their input on what they will do should they get elected, as well as kindly offer some seasoned advice from our perspective on city planning, reasonable building codes, etc. Same should go for the leading mayoral candidates (perhaps after the initial election that will whittle it down to two contestants in August) on these subjects as well as Mass Transit for all of Metro.  

 

We need to work at helping the government sector better grasp these issues so we don't find ourselves pontificating on the sidelines about this stuff ad nauseum for the next several decades.  We all agree that these issues need focused attention now…and I'm all about action.   

 

It's  unfortunate that too many of y'all folks, whose substantive offerings in these pages over the last 2 years or so just possibly could turn some heads, are either not "ripened" to the point of retirement from the workforce, or otherwise are not geographically or physically present to become mobilized for such an effort in concert.  It is a great idea nonetheless, as such windows of potentially opportune discourse person-to-person don't come around like the Good Humor mobile.

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[smeagolsfree]

21c Museum hotel going in front of MDHA to allow 7 rooftop suite. I think this would effectively add a floor to the building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/real-estate/2015/05/downtown-boutique-hotel-wants-to-add-rooftop.html

[SoundScan]

as you can see we are concentrating all our growth to the center which makes sense but we have no transit plan in place.  One can only grow this much in the center for a limited number of years. 

How do we solve this puzzle each year.  year after year and not hit saturation point.  We will at some point in very near future have to creat higher density centers away from the core such as green hills, belle meade, charlotte/sylvan park,  south nashville maybe bells bend etc.  creat an outer ring of density centers that are interconnected.  That have there own cores and transit hubs that could cannect to downtown core

That reads like you're describing a mini-Atlanta. Something I know none of us really want but I'm afraid we're almost predestined for such an outcome. The inertia of public opinion towards road-building versus mass transit in the mid-south region may simply be too great to overcome within the critical decision-making timeframes--which are fast approaching.

[Nashvilletitans]

21c Museum hotel going in front of MDHA to allow 7 rooftop suite. I think this would effectively add a floor to the building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/real-estate/2015/05/downtown-boutique-hotel-wants-to-add-rooftop.

Yes a partial roof addition.   it was approved by historic comm in april as well.  Nice project

http://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/MHZC/docs/2015%20Meetings/4%20April/SR%20222%203rd%20Av%20N,.pdf

[Nashvilletitans]

That reads like you're describing a mini-Atlanta. Something I know none of us really want but I'm afraid we're almost predestined for such an outcome. The inertia of public opinion towards road-building versus mass transit in the mid-south region may simply be too great to overcome within the critical decision-making timeframes--which are fast approaching.

If the city is going to grow ( and we probably will ) there is no where else to put the people.  we won't be  adding all the growth of residences in downtown/midtown just some of it.  so the rest must "infill" in suburbia.  In the vast perimeter of the county where there may be 1/3 ,1/2 arce or 1 acre lots of suburbia it will be hard to squeeze many residential units in existing subdivision.  

 

there is basically no land left except in the north west part of the county.  

 

makes more sense to me if we made density centers say like green hills.  Now imagine a master plan of green hills that takes what is already there and over a 25year period we fill it in the parking lots with new buildings and green space and  mix use. More jobs and apartments and no cars.  make it all walkable and take out the cars in its center and make them buildings and parks/greenways that connect the area. and park on perimeter in structures.  Add buses and we "walk" connect to other centers of the future.  

 

could start with a master plan where the new higher mix use density might be 6 blocks by ten blocks for first ten years.  then add more adjacent blocks the next ten years.  this way everyone knows what is coming.  keep the growth out of the surrounding neighborhoods.  for existing people in the core if the don't like it so much there property value went way up because of the upgrade in zoning rights so they can move or live on the 6 floor of the new mid rise built.

 

If you have a good master plan that you stick with the concept It might be a great place to live and add diversity to city as well (jobs with accessible work force-and even maybe less traffic) as mass transit connecting the hubs with a circulator in each of the hubs.  I am not sure I want to put 100's of thousands of people 30 miles outside of nashville and ship them in on interstates or train. 

[rookzie]

That reads like you're describing a mini-Atlanta. Something I know none of us really want but I'm afraid we're almost predestined for such an outcome. The inertia of public opinion towards road-building versus mass transit in the mid-south region may simply be too great to overcome within the critical decision-making timeframes--which are fast approaching.

 

I don't believe that his outlook suggests that Metro Nashville has to end up as an Atlanta.  The fact is that Nashville long has been decentralized, as it were, and this is not necessarily a bad thing in this day and age.  While I would very much be open to (and at my age I truly miss) a downtown with big-time retail, mini-centers of activity have had a stronghold for decades, with no sign of abatement, a growth phenomenon common to most at least decent-sized and larger cities, to a degree. 

 

Nashville already is a region based on sprawl, a characteristic in Southern cities in general during the last 60 years. and IMO nothing could really be gained by re-concentration of the CBD, not to say that this is what is advocated.  Green Hills, Hermitage, Madison, Bordeaux, Bellevue, and Antioch (and Cane Ridge) will likely remain what they are, in terms of discrete identities.  High density centers away from the CBD will not occur over a few weekends and they may not even occur during my own remaining lifetime ─ quite possibly when even most current members of these threads are silver and chrome-domed (with Schnauzer eyebrows).  But they have been in various stages of being created.

 

That's also part of the dynamics of transit planning ─ to make a much higher percent of the work centers accessible by transit.  It's a superlative "positive" to have multiple signatures of corporate presence in the CBD, and Nashville has been fortunate to have retained and gained clients attracted from the greater county and beyond.  According to a study released during summer 2012 [brookings Institute], for the working majorities, however, work centers, both corporate and non-, the region had been plagued with an inexcusably low labor-access rate of only around 16% of the metro urban population capable to reach jobs in 90 minutes by public transit, with fewer than 9 percent of the region’s suburban employees having access to a public transit trip of 90 minutes or less.  With mid-state regional transit access ranking nationally at Nº84 in connecting public transportation to job centers, there is little doubt that this has improved slightly with the addition of RTA regional commuting buses to the outlying counties (the most recent having been Dickson Co.).  But 16- and 9% respectively of urban and suburban commuters leaves woefully a super-high percentage of the workforce without reasonable access or options as choice riders of public transit, not to mention how this affects the latitude of options for the transit-dependent.

 

Because suburbanization of work centers is here to stay, and often desirable and predictable based on the type of facility and operations, it therefore has to be a primary goal to bridge the often gross disconnections among work centers and the neighborhoods that drive them (or that would drive them).  I often have overheard dialogs between or among labor-force riders on a common city bus, where they would exclaim primarily that they had to forgo potentially higher paying jobs, simply because they had no way to get there without being fired for tardiness (particularly during the winter season when MTA buses have been marginally reliable only on some arterial routes), and that they had been trying to "squirrel away" (save funds) in hopes of acquiring their own "wheels".

 

Concentration of corporate-office workforce in the CBD tends to have the highest rate of accessibility by public transit, since in the case of Nashville, public transit options are the greatest in that area, of course.  As the CBD becomes saturated with activity (if the growing trend cycle remains extended), outlying areas (not necessarily Cool Springs, Hendersonville, or Mt. Juliet), also already will have "matured" with their own mini- and micro-centers of activities, particularly since multitudes of people simply do not wish (or can afford) to live close to CBD located employment.

 

My intention is not to knock Atlanta, its transit system of which over the years has incurred issues with funding expansion and which finally seems ever so slowly beginning to return to a state of viability, in its attempt to recover from rampant corruption and mismanagement.  MARTA still remains ions above what Nashville can even dream of in terms of an HRT set-up, but as a whole MARTA has stagnated as a transit system, as city leaders have struggled to regain votes of confidence as a regional authority with the outlying burbs and counties.  For a region its size and coverage, Atlanta has yet to establish a true any regional commuter-rail network and has had long had to settle for limited range of its heavy-rail electric urban system.  It is with this case history of Atlanta that Greater Nashville can gain immensely in working in concert with regional stakeholders.  In concluding personal opinions of Atlanta, many people fail to realize that one reason that Atlanta has become a bane to the quality of life is that its transit network has not kept in pace with that regions's sprawl.  (Atlanta had ranked Nº87, the next worse below Nashville)  There is much to be gleaned from this in terms of "lesson", while Nashville still has a phat chance of avoiding that mobility curse befallen Atlanta.  Atlanta also must be given kudos for having great access from ATL Hartsfield-Jackson to DT via MARTA.

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Edited May 19, 2015 by rookzie

[UTgrad09]

 

>>>500K people in twenty years that is about 20K people a year. 

 

What is the source of this data? What geography is it for? According the projections I've seen Nashville/Metro/Davidson County is expected to grow by 100k-120k over the next 20 years.

 

Current Census estimates show growth of about 10k per year (and those estimates are certainly not perfect). 

 

I think any projections for 20 years are crapshoots. Go back to the projections for the Nashville area in the mid 90s....(let me see if I can find them). Way, WAY off.

 

 

 

FWIW, 20k per year would be Charlotte level growth. 

[Nashville Cliff]

FWIW, Census un-embargoes the 2014 subcounty estimates this Thursday.

[UTgrad09]

FWIW, Census un-embargoes the 2014 subcounty estimates this Thursday.

 

Been looking forward to that since March.

[Nashvilletitans]

Whether the number is growth of 5000 a year or 20,000 year.  As a city we can over build but we could not possible over plan.  There are many factors that will effect that growth -the regions economy, trends, how Nashville responds to this growth........   5 years ago they projected consistent growth  -now they project a faster growth rate.   No one knows what the future will be.   My point was we should plan for the higher growth rates such that the plan is a true plan dealing with the worst or perhaps best situation for the future.  My other point was that if the middle tennessee is to grow by an additional 1M person over time that shouldn't nashville try to attract 40% to 50% of those persons.   and the remainder in surrounding counties.  Nashville next I believe was targeting something like 15%.  If the remainder goes to the surrounding counties that destroys thousands and thousands of acres of farmland to suburban sprawl.  Never to be open space again.  

 

Davidson county has a fair amount of land left that one cannot build on with steep slopes or floods.  this land will stay undeveloped.  There is about 330,000 acres in davidson county we are down to a few thousand acres that one can truly build on.  the day of 500 acre subdivisions in nashville are long gone.  There is very little land left in the county that is not steep slopes.

 

In 1810 nashville population was 1100 persons by 1910 nashville had a population of 110,000 and  2010 the population was 625,000 people. 100 years of growth Nashville has built out from its core and housed and roaded up almost all the land one can build on.  The past was building outward and and get a car and now the future for nashville is to build upward and take a form a transit.

 

For 200 years almost all growth went laterally out. (and consumed almost all of the land in the county) for the next 200 years we will be forced to go vertically up with growth.  That was something I do not think Nashville next participants nor perhaps even I can grasp.  The day of subdivisions in nashville are dead.

 

If we build vertically in the core and specific density centers in suburbia and can come up with a real master transit concept then we will not run out space- no matter how many people move to nashville

[ariesjow]

^ For all the complaining we do about the quality of our projects, we have three great hotel rehabs with tasteful additions in the works right near each other. We have a lot to be proud of.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ariesjow

[Paramount747]

Any crane pics? I don't get out to the country that much.

[rookzie]

Any crane pics? I don't get out to the country that much.

 

crane piX

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[whatwhat]

*I haven't mastered embedding images so apologies if it didn't work.


use [ i m g ] rather than [ u r l ] in the coding. Or use the picture icon (below the smiley icon). -UTGrad

[MidTenn1]

[smeagolsfree]

Plan released for Stockyard site. The only problem is they want to close Stockyard or I guess Whiteside. To that I say Hello NO!

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/5/20/developer_looks_to_save_stockyard_building_for_mixed_use_project

[smeagolsfree]

In the Tennessean's version, Spectrum would be requried to add another stree on the north end of the development. I am OK with that. The problem with what I had seen first is you would be taking a street away, and no where in Nashville do we need to take streets from the grid.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2015/05/20/new-design-incorporates-stock-yard-building-project/27660419/

[Nashville Cliff]

I like that they will incorporate the historic building.