Brownstones at Thornton Park

[steve_o]

On August 19, 2016 at 8:25 AM, nite owℓ said:

This argument seems to have taken on a personal tone... did negotiations on a unit fall apart or was your offer declined or something?

That would make sense given the aggression and negativity, but sadly no.  

[AndyPok1]

6 hours ago, GTR said:

Steve-O, your lack of a college education is showing. I know it is hard for someone to subject realism on here, but please don't insult people that know this business.  The sales have been lackluster so far and anyone with any knowledge in the business can see that.  Doesn't mean that they are bad products, just severely overpriced. I suppose I should congratulate you for selling 1 unit every two months of a place that borders the highway, dilapidated duplexes, a future dog poop mound and the projects.  

It's fine to have your feelings and be in your bubble, but there's no need to be disingenuous or act like there aren't other viewpoints. 

1) The highway is 2 blocks away, past an entire park.  Lots of people find that to be a big selling point because they want to live somewhere with easy access in and out.
2) The duplexes aren't great, but from your rooftop you're going to see the lake behind them, not to mention that they are ripe for redevelopment which will increase value.
3) Many people would find the dog park across the street a MAJOR plus if they have a dog.  Ask people that live in Solaire how annoying it is to take their dog out.
4) The projects are 7 blocks east, with 2 lakes, a state road, and an expressway exit between them.  That's the same as saying you shouldn't buy in Lake Eola Heights because Parramore is nearby.

[HankStrong]

So...

 

"The Ebola virus.  That's gotta suck, huh?"

 

[JFW657]

8 hours ago, GTR said:

Steve-O, your lack of a college education is showing. I know it is hard for someone to subject realism on here, but please don't insult people that know this business.  The sales have been lackluster so far and anyone with any knowledge in the business can see that.  Doesn't mean that they are bad products, just severely overpriced. I suppose I should congratulate you for selling 1 unit every two months of a place that borders the highway, dilapidated duplexes, a future dog poop mound and the projects.  

Speaking of those duplexes, it's quite possible one might be opening up soon. Maybe you should look into it. That way, even though you couldn't swing getting into one of the Brownstones, you could at least be close enough to look out your window and dream of what might have been.

If only.....

 

[HankStrong]

This is getting a bit on the nasty side.

[bulldogger]

Miss Jackson?

[dcluley98]

Oooooooh, I am for real. . .

Wait a minute. Wrong decade.

[jrs2]

On 8/17/2016 at 10:08 AM, GTR said:

Except that if this was a big project you couldn't even begin construction without 80% pre-sold, which was routinely done a decade ago with projects involving 10/15 times as many units. There really is no good way to spin only selling 20 out of 28 units by the time construction is complete.

Sure there is...that fact that it's getting built in the first place - and that 20 of 28 units have already been sold -  in a downtown market dominated by apartment construction since 2012.

 

[GTR]

On August 19, 2016 at 8:25 AM, nite owℓ said:

This argument seems to have taken on a personal tone... did negotiations on a unit fall apart or was your offer declined or something?

No, I would not have made an offer on this type of project considering the poor location and poor value. Bought into the Sanctuary, very happy there.

[GTR]

On August 22, 2016 at 6:31 PM, jrs2 said:

Sure there is...that fact that it's getting built in the first place - and that 20 of 28 units have already been sold -  in a downtown market dominated by apartment construction since 2012.

 

20 out of 28 units in 2 years at this price point would be a failure for any other downtown project, but if people that clearly have no concept of the market want to keep pretending that is good I won't continue to burst their bubble.  We are talking about a small townhome project on a cheap piece of land on the outskirts of downtown, not a 300+ highrise on property facing Lake Eola. It's clear some people on here are so desperate for any development downtown they would talk up a dog turd if it went condo so there really is no use in trying to argue with them.

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, GTR said:

20 out of 28 units in 2 years at this price point would be a failure for any other downtown project, but if people that clearly have no concept of the market want to keep pretending that is good I won't continue to burst their bubble.  We are talking about a small townhome project on a cheap piece of land on the outskirts of downtown, not a 300+ highrise on property facing Lake Eola. It's clear some people on here are so desperate for any development downtown they would talk up a dog turd if it went condo so there really is no use in trying to argue with them.

GTR.  Seriously?  Why are you even making this an argument in the first place? For you to repeat exactly what you already said before means that you either don't read other peoples' posts, or that you don't want to read them, and are only interested in furthering your own point of view, while accusing others of doing just that.  

The remainder of this post is also for all you other "desperate" "pretenders" on these boards to read.  Read on, if you don't want your "bubbles burst" by a bleak analysis by GTR about this or other downtown projects or your collective ignorance level on the market (unless GTR was only referring to me) compared to his or her own intelligence level on the subject (Oh, I use "her" to be PC, and also b/c I'm not sure what your sex is based on how you responded.  Moving on:

For starters, I would like to see GTR's analysis of the condo submarket downtown with regards to current condo projects u/c and sales percentages of those units.  How many new condo projects are under development in downtown since 2012, 2011, 2010, or 2009? None other than this project.  You can't just analyze a single project in 2016 in a vacuum to say whether it's a success or failure without also looking at the current submarket trends.  Disagree all you want.  Disagree?  Did you even read that part of my post? Because if you did, you wouldn't have accused me of talking up a "dog turd that went condo."

"...would be a failure for any other downtown project"- Just which condo project currently u/c are you referring to?  Because there are none, so what are you comparing it to?

Downtown Orlando is a rental market for the past 6-9 years.  Period.  Post bust projects such as NORA, The Sevens, Steelhouse, Skyhouse, 420 Artisan, Crescent, Lexington, et al, are all apartments, not condos.  Even boom projects, like Dynetech/ Aspire are apartments.  55W was finished as apartments when it was supposed to be condos.  Camden Orange Court: apartments.  The only pre-bust boom condos downtown are Solaire, Paramount, Sanctuary, 101 Eola, Star Tower, Eola South, Vue, Jackson.  Metropolitan was converted to Condos back then as well.  And all those came online by 2008-09.

Are you comparing this project to Citi Tower, which is currently u/c? So if Citi Tower is u/c right now, which it is, with 300+ apartment units and overlooks Lake Eola (like you stated), what does that have to do with actual condos being built in the form of a townhouse community 4 blocks from there on cheaper land?  Apartments are not condos.  Apples and Oranges for the Orlando submarket for condo construction in 2016, or for market analysis.  

However, if you (GTR) are not making reference to Citi Tower, and are instead making reference to a condo tower (300 units overlooking Lake Eola), then which condo with those specs is currently u/c in downtown Orlando?  Answer: none.  Orlando's condo towers are from Orlando's condo boom/ bust era.  And Orlando's condo "boom" was made up (alot) by a bunch of investors driving up condo prices in that submarket, hence the ensuing foreclosures and housing bust; people overextending themselves financially who couldn't flip the units quick enough.  Are those the comparative percentage numbers you are using with this project? So I'm assuming you also call the building bust a success, right, since this must be what you are comparing this project to?  How many units have foreclosed on this project so far?  None.

BTW, regarding having a "concept" of the market, every condo in downtown Orlando was overpriced back during the boom/ bust.  If you want to slam this project for price and location, then you need to slam all those other overpriced condos as well, b/c, Orlando isn't Miami Beach when comparing prices. 

BTW, Orlando downtown isn't the only city that has 3 or so story townhouses.  You might as well slam places like Chicago, Boston, NYC as well and view those projects as failures of land use too.

And this is the part that irritates me so much on these boards, having to spell it out for talking point pirates like yourself (GTR) with your jabs against other forumers accusing them of being ignorant on the subject when the opposite is more likely the truth.

In summary:

You (GTR) compared this project to building boom inflated condo projects and prices driven up by investors from 10 years ago overlooking Lake Eola with 300 or more units, which were the victims of dozens upon dozens of foreclosures, as the basis for your last 4 or 5 posts slamming this project.  Who's the expert market analyst now?

[Jernigan]

Ok people, let's see some quals 

[dcluley98]

"This water sure is cold!"

"Yeah, and deep too!"