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CtownMikey

By CtownMikey
in Providence

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quente Whistle-Stop

quente

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Dear Dr. Downtown:

I've always found your "Ask Dr. Downtown" shtick to be self-serving and tiresome. I think it would be far more interesting if you actually engaged in a true point-counterpoint format with a real human being.

Signed - Fed-up on Federal Hill

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bhooley Whistle-Stop

bhooley

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Well, that was the first time, for me, ever reading Dr. Downtown. I have to say, I wish I could have those 2 minutes of my life back. That was hands down the worst thing I've ever read in a newspaper. Self-serving is the most apt way to describe that "article".

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matt Hamlet

matt

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Downcity was hoppin' today. I went to take some pics of GTech (see the thread), checked out the RISD student art sale, and then wandered over to Craftland. I may even be so bold as to wander around the waterfire tonight as well.

Two cars stopped me for directions (I must look knowledgable :) or maybe we need better signage <_< )

One guy asked me where the river was. He was at Kenedy plaza, so I just pointed at the Waterplace towers and said, "start there."

I later ran into him and his family on foot, asked if they found what they were looking for. They were going to try and make a reservation for Ruth's Chris, hit the mall, and see waterfire. :)

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bhooley Whistle-Stop

bhooley

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Not sure if this is the appropriate topic for this, but the following link talks about the network of pedestrian walkways in Calgary - similar to the underground tunnels of Toronto and Houston. I have a friend who lives in Calgary and when he mentioned this to me, it got me thinking about how much this goes against the New Urbanism theory of pedestrian activity. I understand it's cold out in the winter there, but to eliminate street level activity is a no-no.

There's even a requirement by the city for all new development to connect to this or at least contribute to the funding of it.

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Living/...ing/Plus+15.htm

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runawayjim Metropolis

runawayjim

Posted
Posted
Not sure if this is the appropriate topic for this, but the following link talks about the network of pedestrian walkways in Calgary - similar to the underground tunnels of Toronto and Houston. I have a friend who lives in Calgary and when he mentioned this to me, it got me thinking about how much this goes against the New Urbanism theory of pedestrian activity. I understand it's cold out in the winter there, but to eliminate street level activity is a no-no.

There's even a requirement by the city for all new development to connect to this or at least contribute to the funding of it.

http://content.calgary.ca/CCA/City+Living/...ing/Plus+15.htm

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brick Burg

brick

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Montreal has a quite famous underground mall system that basically runs along Ste. Catharine St. This sounds kind of similar, and I have to say that on my many visits to Montreal in the summer, the presence of the mall did not detract from street level activity. However, on my many winter visits, I was damn glad to have it! I do know that some urbanists have complained about a similar system of walkways in Minneapolis. I'm sure if you search around the Minny areas of UP you would find some other info.

Also, I would imagine that increased use of the system reduces energy dependency as a result of the doors to the outside being opened less, etc. I wouldn't want to say for sure either way though...

Providence is relatively temperate and relatively small, so a similar system (or something like Minneapolis's sky bridges) wouldn't be at all appropriate, I don't think.

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bhooley Whistle-Stop

bhooley

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it's a neat idea, though it does eliminate window shopping and stuff like that. i'm not sure i'd like it here though. while i don't particularly care for (or even understand what's so new about) new urbanism, i think pedestrian activity on the street is important.

i can make exceptions for places that get that cold though. it'd be good in the winter, but i'm sure in the summer there's a lot of people who won't use it because they want fresh air (and others who will because they want the quickest connection to buildings).

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markOne Whistle-Stop

markOne

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Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on Montreal's Underground City. The photos on wikipedia don't do it justice, do a little googling and you'll see more.

It's a very interesting experience to wander through the whole thing. It's extensive (check out the PDF map) and has basically everything you need. I could easily see people entering and never leaving, just like you could with a regular city. It has very good tie-in with public transit so you never need a car, arts and entertainment, grocery stores, department stores, etc. Remember density does not always have to go up, sometimes its good to go down.

All of that said I'm not rushing to live underground...

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runawayjim Metropolis

runawayjim

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Here is a link to the Wikipedia entry on Montreal's Underground City. The photos on wikipedia don't do it justice, do a little googling and you'll see more.

It's a very interesting experience to wander through the whole thing. It's extensive (check out the PDF map) and has basically everything you need. I could easily see people entering and never leaving, just like you could with a regular city. It has very good tie-in with public transit so you never need a car, arts and entertainment, grocery stores, department stores, etc. Remember density does not always have to go up, sometimes its good to go down.

All of that said I'm not rushing to live underground...

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quente Whistle-Stop

quente

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I lived in Houston for about 6 years in the '80's where I went to school to study architecture in my previous life. I had a work study job in downtown for a then fledgling, but very feisty, perservation group.

The tunnel system is quite extensive and once you know you're way around, you can walk from one end of downtown to the other. Since Houston's "90 degree/90% humidity" climate can get pretty brutal, I was always grateful for being able to get around in air conditioned comfort and not have to dodge traffic as I went about my day.

The tunnels were quite active and I always got a kick out of seeing the handful of small, underground storefronts (delis, barbershop, dry cleaners, etc.) with people milling about and chatting. Since buildings would construct their own section of tunnel, there were no standards in terms of dimensions or finish material. Consequently you could go from a section that was about 12 feet wide and very futuristic looking to a section that was barely 5 feet wide covered in terrazzo with a few retro flourishes; it made for an interesting environment.

As for its impact on street life, I'd say it was neutral back then. The tunnels provided circulation space first and foremost - the commercial side was an afterthought and secondary at best. Since many Texans scurry from one air conditioned space to the next during the daytime, I'm not sure that the street life would have been dramatically different.

As far as Providence is concerned, we've got too much stuff going on above ground architecturally to start turning our attention underground. :thumbsup:

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inProv Whistle-Stop

inProv

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I would rather have Providence focus it's energy above ground and invest in street level improvements. Let's face it...this city can't even maintain it's streets and sidewalks. And now we want them to add underground infrastructure? Besides, if people are afraid of the cold or getting wet ocassionally on the way to a Downcity Dunkin' Donuts, there's always the Pawtucket "easy-on/easy off" drive thru! :D

Couldn't resist that one! I realize that Downcity is more than DD, but come on. Rhode Islanders are tough enough to handle our weather. A vibrant street level in Downcity is all that's needed to draw people to the area, no matter what the Ghiorse Factor.

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quente Whistle-Stop

quente

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Posted
Stupid question, perhaps, but: Preservation... in Houston? (I suppose that's not as farfetched as it is in Flagstaff, which we escaped in September -- there, you have a "historic" building that was constructed in 1948! :rofl: )

Urb

PS -- well, actually, 1931. But still -- that ain't any kind of historic, in my book!

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urbie Whistle-Stop

urbie

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Yup - the Greater Houston Preservation Alliance - http://www.ghpa.org/. Houston dates back to the 1830's and here and there you'll find some 19th century architecture.

I hear what you're saying about "historic" buildings. I think that term is misused; when a building is called historic, I think people mean to say that the building is architecturally significant or a local landmark of some sort. While in preservation circles, the term has a specific meaning, all that is lost on the general public.

Regardless, if you tear down those buildings from the 30's and 40's they'll never become "historic". :)

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Jerry2 Hamlet

Jerry2

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The office closed a little early today so I decided to go to Westminster and check out Clover and the flea market ( Bowl & Board) Both stores were closed @ 6PM. The only store on the block that was open was Cathers&Coyne and there was not one soul inside. Scanning the entire street from Dorrance to Empire produced only two couples that appeared frightened by the darkness and lack of people. They were walking extra fast to wherever they were going..probably Trinity...it looked like they had something going on. I didn't want to go to the mall but I couldn't help driving by and assessed that the mall was swamped. It was then that I realized that all of Pvd has suffered from this monstrosity. Sure it has brought a lot of people into the city that may never have visited before and the CBD has never looked better in all my memory. However, I started to think about all the retail districts in the city...Federal Hill, Thayer, Wickenden...etc. They have all lost retail business and essentially become glorified food courts as a result of the mall. I know that it's there now and there is no way I can take it back, but I look at the terrible connection to downtown and cringe. The highway( Memorial Blvd) that separates Capital Center from the CBD is a deterrent to economic development in the CBD...never mind that it deters people from going anywhere past Memorial or suffer a deathwish...

Anyways..I was extremely disappointed. I've been labeled a pessimist and a "local" by some members of UP, but you have to see it through my viewpoint. I've seen downtown go through more re-inventions than Cher. Like the battle in Iraq, we need a different direction. Although it's been discussed here in the past a multitude of times and some people will vehemently disagree with me, PVD cannot support a Newbury style shopping experience. There is not enough businesses here. There is not enough disposable income. Sure some can survive but you have to look at districts like Federal Hill and Wickenden that have an eclectic mix of businesses that cater to all demographics. Although the mall effectively sucked business away, they remain destinations. Unless these businesses in the CBD have a strong online clientele, I don't see any of them surviving 2007. I feel the frustration of a business owner that's invested thousands of dollars to find his investment losing money. The condos in Waterplace and Westin will have zero effect on the CBD. These same people will have apprehension crossing the highway for their basic necessities. It would be safer for them to walk or drive to University Heights. I don't profess to know everything about the retail situation downtown, but based on some posters' observations and my own, it seems like everything isn't as kosher as some envision. I would suggest a totally different direction. Perhaps that would take dropping the rents a little to try to attract tenants that have a broader appeal to the majority young college population that exist in the immediate vicinity. Such integration would create a more cohesive community and bring more people downtown. Aside from the failing grade with respect to lighting, signage, and cleanliness, this area is completely salvageable. I think it takes the vision of somebody that doesn't try to equate Pvd's redevelopment or stature w/ Boston, Philly, Ny, or wherever. I hope that somebody will come to the rescue!

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Cotuit Megalopolis

Cotuit

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To be blunt, I'm extremely dissappointed with Westminster this holiday season. The Hoidays make up a major portion of retailers annual take, and the retailers on Westminster have let another hoiday season slip through thier fingers.

Marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing.

Oh, and, being open once and a while would help to.

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