Brightline Trains

[gibby]

What's the purpose of using the OUC spur and then running through Meadow Woods then to 417 instead of just going straight to the 417?  It looks much easier and cheaper to just run south to the 417.

[aent]

6 hours ago, gibby said:

What's the purpose of using the OUC spur and then running through Meadow Woods then to 417 instead of just going straight to the 417?  It looks much easier and cheaper to just run south to the 417.

I think the 417 land is a bit more at a premium and would likely need more bridges, the OUC spur is adding additional tracks in that property, it is not using the existing tracks.    

[dcluley98]

Well, that and the stated desire to tie in to SunRail at Meadow Woods. It would be a lot harder to do that at the 417.  

[jrs2]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:15 AM, HankStrong said:

I can't find my prints but this presentation exhibit (albeit not a set of plans) even shows the station @ 192 & I-4 not 2.5 miles down the road @ World Dr.

too bad this alignment isn't in play ala the OCCC.

11 hours ago, aent said:

I think the 417 land is a bit more at a premium and would likely need more bridges, the OUC spur is adding additional tracks in that property, it is not using the existing tracks.    

are we talking about the OUC spur ala the "phase 3 of Sunrail" or is this alignment also what BL is considering to get to Meadowoods Station en route to Tampa?

[Dale]

So, just to be clear, WDW and OCCC stops are envisioned ?

[WAJAS]

5 hours ago, Dale said:

So, just to be clear, WDW and OCCC stops are envisioned ?

This is the route proposals they submitted recently.  Brightline will follow the OUC spur and then SunRail’s current route until it reaches 417. Then it follows 417 until it reaches the area described below.

The proposed stations are Meadow Woods (SunRail), WDW area, Lakeland, and Tampa with Tampa being the first to open.

[aent]

3 hours ago, WAJAS98 said:

This is the route proposals they submitted recently.  Brightline will follow the OUC spur and then SunRail’s current route until it reaches 417. Then it follows 417 until it reaches the area described below.

The proposed stations are Meadow Woods (SunRail), WDW area, Lakeland, and Tampa with Tampa being the first to open.

The local Orlando stops are to open first by about a year, likely after MCO, Meadow Wood/Sunrail transfer, then WDW, then Tampa, then Lakeland is what they've indicated on their timeline. No OCCC stop, as you said.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

So are they suggesting to operate the local Orlando stops or will Sunrail be allowed to run up and down the corridor?

[aent]

2 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

So are they suggesting to operate the local Orlando stops or will Sunrail be allowed to run up and down the corridor?

They will operate the local stops. First is WPB to Orlando connection, 2021 ETA, then Meadow Woods/WDW 2022, remaining stations 2023 is what they're currently claiming

[OrlFlaUsa]

What are the chances that we can tie a new transit system into one of the proposed stops for Virgin that would then connect to all of I-drive?? 

[aent]

1 minute ago, OrlFlaUsa said:

What are the chances that we can tie a new transit system into one of the proposed stops for Virgin that would then connect to all of I-drive?? 

The only shot is an airport to I-Drive route, and the airport is against that at this point.

[dcluley98]

36 minutes ago, aent said:

The only shot is an airport to I-Drive route, and the airport is against that at this point.

The airport and cabs are against it, but there still could be a  private company that pulls that off. Also, a separate extension from OCCC/Universal/I-drive to UCF is not a bad idea, especially if built on a more frequent system with a potential circulator in mind.  I think they did studies on 528 Corridor for rail. I would love to see another connection from I-Drive to Airport/UCF connecting to the new Virgin/Brightline and SunRail. The whole thing is, it isn't very economically feasible, and the local entities that have political pull aren't really into it for business, so it likely won't happen for a long time. Best bet would be for Virgin/Brightline to get built and actually be a success, and then the parent company decides to expand the system to add more capacity/routes to high-traffic areas. That or GOAA decides to try to do it themselves and cut out the dying (thankfully!) business that is Mears. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

A cautionary tale on High Speed Rail Fail. 

https://www.city-journal.org/californias-high-speed-rail-project?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

We may be very lucky we get what we have now. 

[Dale]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

A cautionary tale on High Speed Rail Fail. 

https://www.city-journal.org/californias-high-speed-rail-project?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

We may be very lucky we get what we have now. 

Brightline may be the only game in town when all is said and done

And California is a cautionary tale in more ways than one.

[jrs2]

10 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

The airport and cabs are against it, but there still could be a  private company that pulls that off. Also, a separate extension from OCCC/Universal/I-drive to UCF is not a bad idea, especially if built on a more frequent system with a potential circulator in mind.  I think they did studies on 528 Corridor for rail. I would love to see another connection from I-Drive to Airport/UCF connecting to the new Virgin/Brightline and SunRail. The whole thing is, it isn't very economically feasible, and the local entities that have political pull aren't really into it for business, so it likely won't happen for a long time. Best bet would be for Virgin/Brightline to get built and actually be a success, and then the parent company decides to expand the system to add more capacity/routes to high-traffic areas. That or GOAA decides to try to do it themselves and cut out the dying (thankfully!) business that is Mears. 

Maybe this goes back to what Spenser1058 mentioned in a post a while back about GOAA being a “quasi state agency” ala loyalties to local connectivity, etc.  So with this in mind, I-Drive will never connect to OIA unless GOAA stands more to gain financially from that kind of deal than one with Mears.

I’m thinking that a major deep pocket would have to get involved, like, say, Comcast.  If they connect their two major properties and WetnWild properties with a rail line, maybe they would consider expanding a cost effective system to the OCCC, then maybe eventually an OIA connection.  PURE speculation, of course, but their two major properties are in fact bookending I-Drive’s corridor as far north as the outlets and as far south as the N/S Bldg of the OCCC; maybe to the east by a couple of lights, but bookending it nevertheless.

[aent]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Maybe this goes back to what Spenser1058 mentioned in a post a while back about GOAA being a “quasi state agency” ala loyalties to local connectivity, etc.  So with this in mind, I-Drive will never connect to OIA unless GOAA stands more to gain financially from that kind of deal than one with Mears.

I’m thinking that a major deep pocket would have to get involved, like, say, Comcast.  If they connect their two major properties and WetnWild properties with a rail line, maybe they would consider expanding a cost effective system to the OCCC, then maybe eventually an OIA connection.  PURE speculation, of course, but their two major properties are in fact bookending I-Drive’s corridor as far north as the outlets and as far south as the N/S Bldg of the OCCC; maybe to the east by a couple of lights, but bookending it nevertheless.

I do wonder what Comcast/Universal's opinion is on this topic. While they're so close to the OCCC and clearly benefit from it, do they recognize that and want it to be part of their community or park, or do they view it as competition for their little bit of meeting space, and for their hotel rooms as the OCCC obviously has so many rooms within walking distance. Hotels like Hyatt and Rosen would become even more premium if there is a rail connection from Universal to OCCC since it'd clearly be walking distance

[prahaboheme]

10 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Maybe this goes back to what Spenser1058 mentioned in a post a while back about GOAA being a “quasi state agency” ala loyalties to local connectivity, etc.  So with this in mind, I-Drive will never connect to OIA unless GOAA stands more to gain financially from that kind of deal than one with Mears.

I’m thinking that a major deep pocket would have to get involved, like, say, Comcast.  If they connect their two major properties and WetnWild properties with a rail line, maybe they would consider expanding a cost effective system to the OCCC, then maybe eventually an OIA connection.  PURE speculation, of course, but their two major properties are in fact bookending I-Drive’s corridor as far north as the outlets and as far south as the N/S Bldg of the OCCC; maybe to the east by a couple of lights, but bookending it nevertheless.

We agree on more than you realize

Universal is postering itself as a major player in the future development of South Orlando. 

Lets get this going as quickly as possible because Disney’s strongman attitude to Orlando no longer serves anyone outside Reedy Creek.

[spenser1058]

22 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

We agree on more than you realize

Universal is postering itself as a major player in the future development of South Orlando. 

Lets get this going as quickly as possible because Disney’s strongman attitude to Orlando no longer serves anyone outside Reedy Creek.

A couple of things to unpack. First, WDW is the predominant employer in town and the biggest taxpayer by far. Full stop. They’re acting no differently than any other business would in a similar position.

Now, having said that, the way Disney interfaces with the community is not monolithic. The WDW president plays an important role. When Dick Nunis ruled the roost, it was his way or the highway (the fact UCF acted that way when he chaired their Board of Trustees was not dissimilar.)

Conversely, Meg Crofton, who was quite active in the community (because of a background in both Orlando and Winter Park), as well as Al Weiss toward the end of his run, were much more willing to participate in a dialogue with local leaders. 

Today, George Kalogridis, is more like Dick in that he’s a total creature of the Mouse and has never been as active in the community as Meg or Al. George’s personality is very different than Dick’s and cast members love him, but his life is Disney. He’s long been the one sent in to put out fires and prepare for big changes within Parks and Resorts. His return to Florida to solve problems with MDX and to ramp up all the investments (billions of dollars) in response to competition from Universal and the leadin to the 50th anniversary has been quite successful.

It’s also been great for our economy.

Universal, meanwhile, has never played much of a role in the local community beyond the minimum required. If Universal needs to given their plans, they no doubt will. 

It’s also important to note that Disney has more clout in Tallahassee than virtually any other business in Florida and they know how to use it.

At the same time, it’s crucial to remember that Disney has very few interests in the City of Orlando while Universal does. All those things play a role.

To date, Universal has not been anywhere near the destination resort WDW has become and so they’ve tended to handle external matters differently as a result. Universal is now seeking to change that and we’ll see them react accordingly.

With progressive Democrats in charge of the county for the first time in decades, there’s also going to be changes there. Disneyland in California has already seen a sea change in relationships between itself and Anaheim as things changed there.

It’s going to be an interesting decade as all of those things play out.

 

 

[prahaboheme]

Spenser, I dont take issue with most of what you’ve said. It seems like you are making the point for me by stating:

“At the same time, it’s crucial to remember that Disney has very few interests in the City of Orlando while Universal does. All those things play a role.”

[jliv]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:36 AM, aent said:

I'll also add that if Brightline is able to provide the DME service, it makes it much more magical. Most people come where there is no HSR of any form (even if its not as far as other HSRs), and the avoidance of buses made the monorail resorts by far the most valuable and sought after ones, and every time there is talk of the monorails being replaced by buses as they reach their end of life, people flip out, the monorail is among the most iconic mass transit systems in the world. I imagine these very same people will be really excited to take a higher speed train instead of buses, and I bet some would even be willing to forego their car rental to take the trains, because the bus is far from the magical experience Disney desires (as long as the train doesn't have an I-drive connection).

I've always had a weird train fetish, in terms of going out of my way to ride trains when there is no benefit, and I think that is rooted in growing up in Orlando and the excitement of riding the monorail when I was a kid.  It's probably grown into an interest and bias towards mass transit, even through being a regular user of trains these days has dulled their luster for me somewhat.  However, if Virgin/Brightline can turn the travel experience into the tourist corridors into an attraction of its own, it can be both profitable and serve a public good.  

Edited December 7, 2018 by jliv

[aent]

6 hours ago, jliv said:

I've always had a weird train fetish, in terms of going out of my way to ride trains when there is no benefit, and I think that is rooted in growing up in Orlando and the excitement of riding the monorail when I was a kid.  It's probably grown into an interest and bias towards mass transit, even through being a regular user of trains these days has dulled their luster for me somewhat.  However, if Virgin/Brightline can turn the travel experience into the tourist corridors into an attraction of its own, it can be both profitable and serve a public good.  

Exactly, thats what I'm really hoping for. There's no doubt Disney has done exactly that with the monorail, and this is another innovative, generally unique to 99.9% of America system that is generally high end (unlike Sunrail, generally more similiar to Acela Express). I really hope with the rebranding they keep the color codes for the trains as well.

[HankStrong]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:16 AM, jliv said:

I've always had a weird train fetish, in terms of going out of my way to ride trains when there is no benefit, and I think that is rooted in growing up in Orlando and the excitement of riding the monorail when I was a kid.  It's probably grown into an interest and bias towards mass transit, even through being a regular user of trains these days has dulled their luster for me somewhat.  However, if Virgin/Brightline can turn the travel experience into the tourist corridors into an attraction of its own, it can be both profitable and serve a public good.  

I can identify with this.  My whole trip to China was re-routed in order to ride their Maglev in daylight hours and specifically in the direction of going to the airport and not coming from the airport.  It worked out amazingly.

[jliv]

3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I can identify with this.  My whole trip to China was re-routed in order to ride their Maglev in daylight hours and specifically in the direction of going to the airport and not coming from the airport.  It worked out amazingly.

I went down to West Palm Beach in April just so I could ride the Brightline train to Ft.  Lauderdale.  It really was the best experience I've ever had on a train, and I'm a regular rider of Eurostar, Deutsche Bahn ICE trains, French TGV trains, etc.  In fact, it was much better than the typical Virgin Train experience from London to Manchester!   Perhaps it was the "new car smell" aspect of it all, but the fact that every aspect of the experience is run by a private enterprise makes a world of difference.

[AndyPok1]

I eagerly await the service to Fort Lauderdale.  It's gonna make travelling to play poker tournaments in Hollywood exponentially easier for me, since right now it's a huge commitment to drive almost 4 hours to play in their big events.

[jrs2]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 7:47 PM, prahaboheme said:

We agree on more than you realize

Universal is postering itself as a major player in the future development of South Orlando. 

Lets get this going as quickly as possible because Disney’s strongman attitude to Orlando no longer serves anyone outside Reedy Creek.

I think at the end of the day, we all want the same things...more or less...but because of the unfortunate circumstance of "labels" we put on things, we all get caught up in arguing needlessly.  I regret that especially because most of my friends vote differently than I do-and we make it work...

Yeah, I think Comcast is key.  And I wonder about that "easement" over Grand National that an Artegon employee told me about before they were evicted...it's an access point to the SE side of I-4, with Universal Blvd. & Kirkman Rd. being the other two, for Universal.  I wonder if they plan of converting non-Universal properties near WetnWild into their properties with time, parcel by parcel, and that a form of transit would naturally evolve that would actually benefit them.

Maybe not, though, because of the example of the Volcano Bay bus system  with BRT lanes they built from the garage to VB's front door.  They work great.  Maybe they'll expand on this model and go by way of a BRT lane(s) down the center of Kirkman to connect the two parks.  Either way, maybe that's the corridor in question they would otherwise use which, if done with rail, could still extend to the OCCC, but this time on the back side of the N/S Bldg.  

Now imagine if Comcast took over the Maglev proposal and route and built that line directly to OCCC, then north to their South Campus, and onward to the Main Campus.  Wow if they did that.  Imagine the marketing they could do to tourists by pushing the "Hey, Universal is the only resort in Orlando with direct connect from OIA to the resort."  I need to get a job there...