Davidson West: Bellevue, Bordeaux, Green Hills, MetroCenter, Nations, N Nashville

[PruneTracy]

12 hours ago, PHofKS said:

The Bellevue Mall site...

Anyone heard any updates on the completion date for this? The retail section adjacent to Sawyer Brown Road has been seeded; you can see it in the photo above. You usually have to do this anyway for EPSC but it's also a sign they may be phasing this project in rather than building it all at once.

[Andrew_3289]

Progress on Fat Bottom Brewery and Restaurant in the Nations Neighborhood (44th Ave & Indiana Ave) 

Building is going to be bigger than I imagined... 

 

[markhollin]

Family & Childrens Service buys warehouse property on Clifton Ave, one block off of Charlotte, to convert into new HQ:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2016/06/15/family-childrens-service-buys-new-headquarters-site/85939592/

 

[markhollin]

Nashville Predators exploring idea of a Bellevue hockey facility similar to their Ford Ice Center in Antioch:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2016/06/23/nashville-predators-explore-idea-bellevue-hockey-facility/86296120/
 

[markhollin]

Expansion at Green Hills Mall is topped out.  Looking  south on Cleghorn Avenue:

 

Looking south from entrance to parking garage on SW side of the mall:

[markhollin]

15-unit townhouse project getting lined-up for Clifton Avenue, just north of Charlotte Avenue:

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20826836/north-nashville-street-eyed-for-townhome-project

[markhollin]

Burlington Coat Factory one of the first anchor tenants for One Bellevue Place:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2016/07/11/burlington-coat-factory-eyed-bellevue-site/86944774/
 

[markhollin]

Conversion of a former church building and parking lot into office, retail, and possibly restaurant space for another lot in The Nations:

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20827690/mixuse-project-eyed-for-site-in-the-nations

 

[markhollin]

Another warehouse to be converted into mixed-use building in The Nations on 1.5 acres just west of 51st Avenue North on Centennial Blvd.  The 11,000 sq. ft. building and 600 sq.ft. attached covered patio will most likely feature restaurants, retail, office space, and 77 parking spaces in the adjoining lot. This is within a block of the Stocking 51 redevelopment project, as well as the 36-acre Centennial Partners major mixed-use site. The overhead view below shows this structure in the center of the shot.

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20828014/the-nations-to-land-mixeduse-building

 

[Andrew_3289]

Changes coming to 51st Avenue through the Nations neighborhood. 

Here are the renderings for turning 51st Ave in to a more 'main street" vibe and pedestrian friendly. 

The road is 50' feet wide, curb to curb. It will include sidewalks, bike lane, green space, street parking, one lane for each direction, and a center turning lane. 

I think this will be a major improvement to the neighborhood and make a great impact to make the are feel less industrial. 

 

[Vrtigo]

Wow! A protected bike lane? I'm impressed.

The old guard in East Nashville would absolutely flip their crap if anyone tried to put such a thing on this side... Actually, they did do just that when such a thing was proposed for Woodland Street.

[PruneTracy]

46 minutes ago, Vrtigo said:

Wow! A protected bike lane? I'm impressed.

Not exactly. It's what Metro calls a mixed-use path with a separate bike path, similar to installations on 11th Avenue and the 28th/31st Avenue Connector. The bike paths are at-grade with the sidewalk.

[Andrew_3289]

1 hour ago, PruneTracy said:

Not exactly. It's what Metro calls a mixed-use path with a separate bike path, similar to installations on 11th Avenue and the 28th/31st Avenue Connector. The bike paths are at-grade with the sidewalk.

But still "protected" in the sense that there will be greenery and street parking in between traffic and bikes. 

[PruneTracy]

1 hour ago, Andrew_3289 said:

But still "protected" in the sense that there will be greenery and street parking in between traffic and bikes. 

Correct. Don't get me wrong, this design can be an improvement over standard or buffered bike lanes.

The only issue is that putting bicycle and pedestrian traffic together increases the potential for bike/ped crashes which, while obviously not imparting the same amounts of energy as vehicles, can still ruin your day, especially in neighborhoods where there are kiddos around. Of course greenways have the same issue, but the traffic on those is (at least nominally) recreational, so it's reasonable to expect lower speeds from bicyclists. By contrast, roadways like 51st Avenue might see more commuter bicycle traffic, especially since Richland Creek Greenway is just a few blocks over. So if you are riding to work or the store or wherever, you may be incurring longer travel times if you have to dodge pedestrians.

There's also the issue of turning vehicular traffic. There are a lot of cross streets and alleys on 51st, and with on-street parking and foliage in the way, drivers may not see bicyclists on the mixed-use paths. If you're in a regular or buffered bike lane, you're more exposed to traffic, but you're also more visible at conflict points.

Understand, I'm not implying this is a sub-optimal design, I'm just pointing out that there is a trade-off involved in the placement of bike lanes, and what works on one complete street may not work on another complete street. In any case, I doubt the volumes of either pedestrians or bicyclists on 51st Avenue would reach the point to where bike/ped crashes might become a regular occurrence (though, with apologies to the people involved, that would be a good problem to have).

[Andrew_3289]

1 hour ago, PruneTracy said:

Correct. Don't get me wrong, this design can be an improvement over standard or buffered bike lanes.

The only issue is that putting bicycle and pedestrian traffic together increases the potential for bike/ped crashes which, while obviously not imparting the same amounts of energy as vehicles, can still ruin your day, especially in neighborhoods where there are kiddos around. Of course greenways have the same issue, but the traffic on those is (at least nominally) recreational, so it's reasonable to expect lower speeds from bicyclists. By contrast, roadways like 51st Avenue might see more commuter bicycle traffic, especially since Richland Creek Greenway is just a few blocks over. So if you are riding to work or the store or wherever, you may be incurring longer travel times if you have to dodge pedestrians.

There's also the issue of turning vehicular traffic. There are a lot of cross streets and alleys on 51st, and with on-street parking and foliage in the way, drivers may not see bicyclists on the mixed-use paths. If you're in a regular or buffered bike lane, you're more exposed to traffic, but you're also more visible at conflict points.

Understand, I'm not implying this is a sub-optimal design, I'm just pointing out that there is a trade-off involved in the placement of bike lanes, and what works on one complete street may not work on another complete street. In any case, I doubt the volumes of either pedestrians or bicyclists on 51st Avenue would reach the point to where bike/ped crashes might become a regular occurrence (though, with apologies to the people involved, that would be a good problem to have).

Yea I think we can agree that dodging walking pedestrians is better than dodging vehicles in a 35mph zone. 

[Jamie Hall]

This appears to be identical to the "complete street" project Metro finished a few months ago along several blocks of 11th Avenue in the Gulch. I'm a big fan of the concept -- hopefully we'll see more around the city over the next few years.

[Vrtigo]

 

17 hours ago, Andrew_3289 said:

Yea I think we can agree that dodging walking pedestrians is better than dodging vehicles in a 35mph zone. 

...or trusting that those vehicles will dodge you!

[Mike G]

On July 18, 2016 at 2:52 PM, PruneTracy said:

Correct. Don't get me wrong, this design can be an improvement over standard or buffered bike lanes.

The only issue is that putting bicycle and pedestrian traffic together increases the potential for bike/ped crashes which, while obviously not imparting the same amounts of energy as vehicles, can still ruin your day, especially in neighborhoods where there are kiddos around. Of course greenways have the same issue, but the traffic on those is (at least nominally) recreational, so it's reasonable to expect lower speeds from bicyclists. By contrast, roadways like 51st Avenue might see more commuter bicycle traffic, especially since Richland Creek Greenway is just a few blocks over. So if you are riding to work or the store or wherever, you may be incurring longer travel times if you have to dodge pedestrians.

There's also the issue of turning vehicular traffic. There are a lot of cross streets and alleys on 51st, and with on-street parking and foliage in the way, drivers may not see bicyclists on the mixed-use paths. If you're in a regular or buffered bike lane, you're more exposed to traffic, but you're also more visible at conflict points.

Understand, I'm not implying this is a sub-optimal design, I'm just pointing out that there is a trade-off involved in the placement of bike lanes, and what works on one complete street may not work on another complete street. In any case, I doubt the volumes of either pedestrians or bicyclists on 51st Avenue would reach the point to where bike/ped crashes might become a regular occurrence (though, with apologies to the people involved, that would be a good problem to have).

A civil engineer I talked to in DC this weekend doesn't like bike lanes because they cost the same amount of construct as vehicle travel lanes but do not allow vehicles to travel them.  Maybe this is a better solution- I'm sure a "mixed use path" is cheaper than an on-street bike lane, and it won't have to be replaced when the road is.

On July 12, 2016 at 4:17 PM, markhollin said:

Conversion of a former church building and parking lot into office, retail, and possibly restaurant space for another lot in The Nations:

http://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20827690/mixuse-project-eyed-for-site-in-the-nations

 

I'm really excited for this and the 5202 Centennial Blvd project- keep bringing in new places!

[CenterHill]

1 hour ago, Mike G said:

A civil engineer I talked to in DC this weekend doesn't like bike lanes because they cost the same amount of construct as vehicle travel lanes but do not allow vehicles to travel them.  Maybe this is a better solution- I'm sure a "mixed use path" is cheaper than an on-street bike lane, and it won't have to be replaced when the road is.  

I can understand the disconnect from an engineer's standpoint: being asked to design a lane for bicycle traffic but engineered to carry the same loads as regular vehicular traffic lanes.    But many bike lane projects are not building new roads from scratch but repurposing or restriping existing traffic or parallel parking lanes for bike use, and sometimes widening curbs.

I will say that IMO cyclists sharing sidewalks with pedestrians are a more dangerous mix than cyclists and cars.    I would not build more shared walks like 11th Ave in the Gulch.  I love it as a pedestrian greenway but I ride my bike on the street to avoid having to navigate sightseeing walkers.    

[smeagolsfree]

I think part of the effort to have the bike lanes on that stretch is a traffic calming effort. I have seen large trucks flying down this road, including gasoline tankers. So those jokers need to be slowed down, however if it were up to me the large trucks or at least the tankers would have to use Briley to get in and out of the area.

[Andrew_3289]

3 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

I think part of the effort to have the bike lanes on that stretch is a traffic calming effort. I have seen large trucks flying down this road, including gasoline tankers. So those jokers need to be slowed down, however if it were up to me the large trucks or at least the tankers would have to use Briley to get in and out of the area.

Apparently that is the route they are supposed to be taking but no trucks follow that rule. 

[PruneTracy]

11 hours ago, Mike G said:

A civil engineer I talked to in DC this weekend doesn't like bike lanes because they cost the same amount of construct as vehicle travel lanes but do not allow vehicles to travel them.  Maybe this is a better solution- I'm sure a "mixed use path" is cheaper than an on-street bike lane, and it won't have to be replaced when the road is.

Unfortunately a lot of the old guard still regards all non-vehicular traffic as secondary to the objective of moving cars. Of course the kids go too far the other way; they like the contrived solutions that use a lot of space inefficiently. The truth is somewhere in between: we need to design roadways for all users, but at the same time it doesn't make a lot of sense to use up scant right-of-way on transportation designs that don't serve anyone particularly well. A lot of these Complete Streets projects end up that way; they try to do too much with too little and end up giving cars, peds, and cyclists alike a poor experience.

In this case, it doesn't really cost much to put the bike lanes in the street, as @CenterHill alluded to, but either way it's not really taking away from vehicle capacity. This project, like a lot of road diets, takes away two travel lanes, but traffic operations stay about the same because the lack of a two-way left-turn lane usually degrades the performance of those lanes anyway. In any case, TDOT shows traffic on 51st at about 8,500 vehicles per day, down from 10,000-13,000 in the 80s and 90s, but even at the latter volumes it doesn't warrant four travel lanes.

9 hours ago, CenterHill said:

I will say that IMO cyclists sharing sidewalks with pedestrians are a more dangerous mix than cyclists and cars.    I would not build more shared walks like 11th Ave in the Gulch.  I love it as a pedestrian greenway but I ride my bike on the street to avoid having to navigate sightseeing walkers.    

A good alternative would be true protected bike lanes that still have on-street parking and/or a planting strip between travel lanes and bike lanes, but the bike lane is still at pavement level so a curb (or street furniture, more vegetation, etc.) separates the bikes from the sidewalk.

But this takes up a lot of width and doesn't fix the turning traffic issue. It's also a pain when it comes to designing stormwater drainage.

1 minute ago, Andrew_3289 said:

Apparently that is the route they are supposed to be taking but no trucks follow that rule. 

It can be arranged by statute. This redesign will probably fix the problem on its own, however. As it is, 51st doesn't exactly give off the neighborhood street vibe. Having on-street parking and 11-foot travel lanes should convince most truckers to go around Centennial.

[Will]

On 7/18/2016 at 2:52 PM, PruneTracy said:

There's also the issue of turning vehicular traffic. There are a lot of cross streets and alleys on 51st, and with on-street parking and foliage in the way, drivers may not see bicyclists on the mixed-use paths. If you're in a regular or buffered bike lane, you're more exposed to traffic, but you're also more visible at conflict points.
 

I bike to work daily and this is the reason I would not want to use a shared path at sidewalk level. That, and it would make bike travel much slower. I much prefer to be on the actual roadway.

[rookzie]

On the sub-topic "the Nations", a discussion of sort also appeared in the Nashville Scene on June 06, and somewhat chronicles the lore from a few who grew up in that district.  It generally corroborates the most credible origin of the name.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/news/pith-in-the-wind/article/13064375/why-is-the-nations-called-the-nations

 

[CenterHill]

Interesting article, Rookzie, and somewhat surprising that we can't get to the bottom of the origin of "The Nations".    

The 77-yr old commenter in the Scene article is correct about the original historic name of the neighborhood.    I have an 1898 Nashville map hanging on the wall in my office.   Here is an enlargement of the area then known as West Nashville.   The circle indicated a post office and the star indicated a "white school".   It was bordered on the east by the Nashville Chattanooga St. Louis Railway spur that remains today and on the west by Richland Creek.   You can see that the neighborhood extended well south across Charlotte Pike into what is today Sylvan Park.