Gaines Street

[stjoe]

http://www.tdo.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?A...NGNEWS/70416013

3 strikes and your out?

"First came the staff recommendation, early last year, to turn Gaines Street into a one-way road

[Florida]

You know what's amazing to me, stjoe, is how a nice guy such as yourself can see all of the negative in something without regard to reality. I think what we need to recognize is that the city could have sold us short years ago during the early planning stages of this Gaines Street "thing" and allowed DOT to widen the road in an "As-Is" condition without any regard to what would become of the corridor. That didn't happen, but instead we got a citizens group together to come up with a vision. Sure the vision has evolved since it was initially planned, alot is different now than it was then. Energy costs have doubled, the price on Real Estate in this city has more than trippled in some locations, construction costs are higher than ever, and there are other areas of critical concern throughout the community.

What is happening on Gaines Street is still amazing in my eyes. My entire life it has been a blighted corridor, of nothing more than ugly rusty metal warehouses, that sit almost in the middle of the street, and now we see new life being born starting with the new Marriott that just opened and these proposals to add more.

We're crying foul over a plan that we haven't even seen, some of us. Yet none of us has the resources to do any better at this time. Gaines Street is not supossed to be an Arts district as you or whatever article above stated, it's supossed to be a university transition / destination area.

The GGG committee has decided to sit back and let the FACTS come in before we all jump to judge, I'd recommend us doing the same here on U{sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}}P.

[AlaninTally]

TJ,

You are missing the point on one issue somewhat. The article didn't say that they area is supposed to be an arts district. The area is already considered an arts district with its proximity to Railroad Square. It was merely pointing out the differences between what is an funky arts area versus bringing in un-funky corporation Wal-mart. I like the character the area possesses as the article mentioned a "bohemia." Go to a First Friday Gallery Hop and see the wonderful character Railroad Square takes on as the final stop on the Hop.

I do think that we can make the Gaines Street area have a great aesthetic value and be a good-looking "gateway" to the Capitol. I don't doubt that the GGG committee will do a good job with the FACTS. Tally should hold all the retail, residential, etc...that comes in to a high standard of quality to make this area look great. What I think some area residents are crying foul on is preservation of character. The Gaines Street Development Guidelines for an Urban Revitalization District says the "vision was grounded in establishing an area with unique urban character." You yell "Wal-mart!" in a crowded room and you get the responses you have been seeing on this board and in the Democrat. Yes, yes, let's all clarify that it will be a special Wal-mart - A Neighborhood Market. Doesn't matter to a lot of people. It feels like a betrayal of vision because Wal-mart is not about character and uniqueness. Sure you can dress it up to look good within the District, but still...

I am all for revitalization and sure we have to make some concessions. Vision doesn't come cheap but it can come with a lot of thought and consideration.

[stjoe]

"You know what's amazing to me, stjoe, is how a nice guy such as yourself can see all of the negative in something without regard to reality."

If you don't like my opinion. That is fine. But your broad brush characterization of "negative" is merely a cheap shot. First, I have read post after post from you about hating the Gameday Condo, seen you knock Southwood multiple times, FSU endless times, etc, etc. Don't come at me as if you are always positive....because you are not. Nor am I always negative. This is a weak insulting angle to discount my opinion which I find beneath you.

The "reality" comment just makes zero sense so I won't even touch it.

"What is happening on Gaines Street is still amazing in my eyes. "

And you are welcome to believe that.....why am I and others (as noted on this thread and in the paper) not allowed to voice a different opinion without insults from you?

"We're crying foul over a plan that we haven't even seen, some of us. Yet none of us has the resources to do any better at this time. Gaines Street is not supossed to be an Arts district as you or whatever article above stated, it's supossed to be a university transition / destination area.

The GGG committee has decided to sit back and let the FACTS come in before we all jump to judge, I'd recommend us doing the same here on U{sodEmoji.{sodEmoji.|}}P."

Did you read this article and others where they and other residents voice there displeasure? You are simply ignoring their opinion. That doesn't mean you win the debate. Your tone of dictating how we think and ignoring the voice of the people is in line with the mentality of our local govt.

Gaines Street is going to be what it is....I can't change it, I don't have the power. But don't discount people's opinions and viewpoints. Almost all of those who have an issue have legitimate issues. At least grant people the respect to hear them out without insulting them or demanding they don't have a viewpoint. I have seen endless Tally projects where you wished it was going another or different direction. This is no different.

[Florida]

stjoe's previous post

[stjoe]

too funny

[poonther]

I think if a Wally-mart Neighborhood Market were the right fit for the Gaines Entertainment and Destination Area, then those that are aware of and understand what these type of districts should be, would not have to be convinced or sold so hard on the idea. It doesn't matter how nicely you dress up this store, it still goes against what was originally sold as the "spirit" of this district.

Now would I be content w/a Wally-mart Neighborhood Store, sure, just not here on Gaines. And if a Wally-mart is built on Gaines, the scope of the entire project will be changed IMHO. I believe like bahmo that this will make Gaines just like any other strip center in Tally.

Maybe my vision and others was too "high" or too much. But I really don't think aiming for a Borders/Barnes Nobles, Urban Outfitters, Trader Joe's/Whole Foods, locally owned funky shops, restaurants and pubs is aiming too high nor do you need corporate sponsors w/over 60k students in the area and some of the highest density in the State of FL. If we were trying to lure in Gucci, Tiffany, Saks etc, that would be aiming too high, but going after businesses that are in most metros our size w/big universities should be our goal and these businesses should be special and unique to our area.

The sitting around and waiting on what it will look like, isn't the best approach IMHO also. Now is the time for dialogue and opinions. I can already tell you the Neighborhood Market will look nice on paper and when (if) built. But again I believe it's not the right fit and will change the spirit and scope of Gaines forever.

It just boils down to settling and selling us short no matter how much of a "spin" is sold w/it.

[Florida]

Moving beyond the whole Wal-Mart deal...

... Intersting tidbit here. The Army Corps of Engineers will have to be involved with the Gaines Street roadwork. Apparently, there is a body of water within the scope of this project that falls under their watch. This means that they will have to "do their thing" before the city is able to create alternate routes for the project.

Also along the path is a precious easement that the city is trying to get from CSX railroads. But it's not coming as easy as we'd hope because this particular area is the only place between Jacksonville and Pensacola where they can turn trains around.

So, two interesting things to watch as far as the actual Gaines Street project is concerned.

[poonther]

Hopefully the Army Corp has been contacted about giving up the easement that runs along w/the ditch/canal in the Gaines area. The CSX deal also sounds like a difficult hurdle. I know from previous dealings w/both organizations that they both can be difficult to deal with and it takes time to get any type of response or action from them....a long long time......enough time to properly market and attract the right companies to Gaines.

[Florida]

Hopefully the Army Corp has been contacted about giving up the easement that runs along w/the ditch/canal in the Gaines area. The CSX deal also sounds like a difficult hurdle. I know from previous dealings w/both organizations that they both can be difficult to deal with and it takes time to get any type of response or action from them....a long long time......enough time to properly market and attract the right companies to Gaines.

[gibson]

Have not posted in a long time, but I have to say the Walmart idea is absolutely ridiculous. We have been waiting years for results, the city has been spending our taxpayer money accumulating property to make something unique and you give me a Walmart. Does the city think we are a bunch of chumps? I say no to Walmart! If ya'll have not already called the city here is the number 891 0000. The link to email all the commissioners is below.

http://www.talgov.com/email.cfm?id=commissioners

Gaines needs to start with the proposed Art Park, this is the catalyst we need!

[Florida]

Have not posted in a long time, but I have to say the Walmart idea is absolutely ridiculous. We have been waiting years for results, the city has been spending our taxpayer money accumulating property to make something unique and you give me a Walmart. Does the city think we are a bunch of chumps? I say no to Walmart! If ya'll have not already called the city here is the number 891 0000. The link to email all the commissioners is below.

http://www.talgov.com/email.cfm?id=commissioners

Gaines needs to start with the proposed Art Park, this is the catalyst we need!

[gibson]

tauren i am not sure what facts you are looking for, it is walmart. make the area unique, bring in an architectural vernacular similar to the All Saints area, and by all means keep out the waltons.

[Florida]

tauren i am not sure what facts you are looking for, it is walmart. make the area unique, bring in an architectural vernacular similar to the All Saints area, and by all means keep out the waltons.

[gibson]

Give New Leaf an incentive to expand into Gaines. Keep out the corporate sector as much as absolutely possible. We already have that awful hotel on the corner. Yes it is a start, but a bit of a dud. Lets try to create something unique and architectural vibrant that says Tallahassee and North Florida.

Check this out, a somewhat conceptual plan for the arts park.

http://kccitallahassee.files.wordpress.com...s_sept_2006.pdf

This will be a true catalyst for the area.

For that matter check out the site for the Knight initiatives.

http://kccitallahassee.files.wordpress.com

[Florida]

Here's From a GGG representitive meet with Commissioner Mustian.

[*]Mustian, while not overjoyed, is positive about community feedback, hence the GGG focus. He did state, however, that he believes the City has done its due diligence regarding the design of Gaines Street traffic flow, purchasing parcels, and recruiting business. He doesnt expects road construction to begin in 5 years (money woes), and its design is a done deal.

[*]When we discussed an over site committee regarding the

[Florida]

I think this was lost in our Wal-Mart Debate. Here's the same thing Gibson posted the links to, annotated.

Urban Entertainment & Development Anchor

The Cultural District envisioned in the Cultural Plan and the Community Redevelopment Plan will now have an anchor: The Arts Park on Gaines, a 90,000square foot arts incubator facility.

On site:

A 5,000 square foot open assembly space will be used for regularly scheduled theatre, concerts, and fi lm events. Unlike a fi xed theatre, a flexible space

can be confi gured in various ways, with seating in chairs, at tables, or on risers. The flat floor makes it ideal for banquets, trade shows, and meetings as well.

More than 20,000 square feet of multi-purpose rooms can be fi lled in the daytime by the school district

[Go Gators]

But honestly, in this day and age, the Waltons, just like the Jenkins (Publix) or the Targets, or the Fresh Markets are really all the same. None of them pay high wages for your non-managerial staff, and all of them are out to maximize profits for their shareholders.

[AlaninTally]

But honestly, in this day and age, the Waltons, just like the Jenkins (Publix) or the Targets, or the Fresh Markets are really all the same. None of them pay high wages for your non-managerial staff, and all of them are out to maximize profits for their shareholders.

Because Neighborhood Market is the only Grocer interested in what we've got going on here, I'm willing to hear them out. Can't always judge a book by its cover. Yes it's a Wal-Mart... we're Tallahassee. They, I feel deserve a fair amount of respect when they make a bid for something much the way this community wants to be respected when we make our bids for things. We may not always get what we want, but we should always be taken seriously, and given due consideration.

Just honoring the golden rule. But I'll echo, I REALLY like the Arts on Gaines Proposal. I'm surprised we haven't talked more about this idea. I posted some details about it in this same thread, right before this whole Wal-Mart thing heated up.

[Florida]

Actually, you couldnt be further from the truth regarding Publix. Only employees of Publix can own their stock, which just happens to be one of the best private stocks in the country, their employees are their stockholders. Not to mention they have excellent benefit packages for their employees. I wouldnt even put Publix in the same ballpark as WalMart.

[mracca]

Some one had to do it!! Hehehehe

Possible future of Gains Street???

[poonther]

mracca, that's a classy pix! Makes me wanna rush on down to Gaines w/all my visitors that come to town. (Still looking for that sarcasm icon)

While I have not worked at Costco or Trader Joe's, they are NOT in the same league w/Wally-mart. Everything I've read states that they pay their employees above minimum wage and more of a living wage plus benefits.

New Leaf would be a great fit, actually years and years ago they use to be on Gaines. However, Crystal Connection has just moved out of the space next to New Leaf and now New Leaf will soon be expanding into that space and greatly increasing their size. They should have been courted about this before they started their expansion. So I still hold out that Whole Foods would be a great match for this location and from what I read in New Leaf's newsletters that I get, Whole Foods has been looking to expand into Tally-town.

I echo AiT's latest response!.....there is a difference.

And finally, are Wally-mart and the Arts Park both looking at the SAME parcel at Gay & Gaines?

[Florida]

And finally, are Wally-mart and the Arts Park both looking at the SAME parcel at Gay & Gaines?

[AlaninTally]

From what I've been told, yes they are.

[Florida]

If the developer of the ArtsPark is serious, I'm a supporter as well... but there are many-a-detail left to be known.