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Gaines Street

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AlaninTally Whistle-Stop

AlaninTally

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Again, I have no doubt the proposal Wal-mart will present to Tally will be for an attractive urbanized Wal-mart. And I repeat, it can be the purtiest gosh darn Wal-mart Neighborhood Market you've ever seen. That still will not change my feelings about the corporation and what ripple effects that will have on the rest of the businesses that come (or don't come) to the area. Get Gaines Going, but Get Gaines Going without Wal-Mart ;)

Yes, we want this city to grow and bring in new business, but unfortunately, Wal-mart (IMHO) brings in the wrong types of businesses especially for what I envisioned as the end result of Gaines Street. It just seems like a huge contradiction of what the area's vibe is right now and what it will be turned into with the presence of a Wal-mart corporation.

TJ,

I think your vision of the Gaines Street Plan is pretty much in line with what I thought it should be. However, it seems a tad lackluster. Just from me seeing other cities that did the same thing as we hope to do, the retail, shopping, venues, etc..weren't just an urbanized retread of a strip mall found elsewhere in the city.

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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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Again, I have no doubt the proposal Wal-mart will present to Tally will be for an attractive urbanized Wal-mart. And I repeat, it can be the purtiest gosh darn Wal-mart Neighborhood Market you've ever seen. That still will not change my feelings about the corporation and what ripple effects that will have on the rest of the businesses that come (or don't come) to the area. Get Gaines Going, but Get Gaines Going without Wal-Mart ;)

Yes, we want this city to grow and bring in new business, but unfortunately, Wal-mart (IMHO) brings in the wrong types of businesses especially for what I envisioned as the end result of Gaines Street. It just seems like a huge contradiction of what the area's vibe is right now and what it will be turned into with the presence of a Wal-mart corporation.

TJ,

I think your vision of the Gaines Street Plan is pretty much in line with what I thought it should be. However, it seems a tad lackluster. Just from me seeing other cities that did the same thing as we hope to do, the retail, shopping, venues, etc..weren't just an urbanized retread of a strip mall found elsewhere in the city.

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poonther Town

poonther

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Just in case anyone was wondering:

Message from Commissioner Desloge:

.... I have been told that there have been multiple proposals made to other entities - including Publix, to build something in the Gaines Street area with no luck -

--Bryan Desloge

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AlaninTally Whistle-Stop

AlaninTally

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If Wal-mart is the only selection possible, they should be held to strict standards for design and signage. Most Wal-mart properties I see end up looking sloppy and unorganized, even those that were retrofitted to look more appealing.

Otherwise, I say wait. There are definitely more suitable retailers. Anyone in for any open letter campaign to Trader Joes?

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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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Very Interesting!

I assume these proposal were current ones? (I realize you probably have no way of knowing that TJ)

I'd love to see a list of all the companies contacted for this site.

This is a very important detail in the development of this story. I hope that the Democrat finally runs a COMPLETE story on this proposal, not just a brief and when they do, this information should be included, don't you think?

Finally knowing this information, what do those opposed to Wally-mart think we should do now? I believe I know how TJ and seminole feel, but I'd be interested to hear the opinions of those opposed in light of this new info that TJ has brought us.

Do we go ahead w/the Wally-mart proposal in hopes that they will draw people to this area and act as a catalyst for other businesses as TJ and seminole have suggested?

Do we hold Wally-mart accountable for a store that fits exactly the ideals of this area in such areas as: design, signage, outdoor storage (in pix I've seen of neighborhood stores, I've seen stuff like mulch and potting soil stacked outside by the front doors) parking (possibly a deck) lighting etc? Or do we take a softer approach to Wally-mart since they are the only one interested at this time in the name of "good business" and we permit them some leeway in design etc.

Or do we say No to Wally-mart in hopes that some other "more suitable" retailer will come along in the future? Of course we have no idea if that will be 6 months or 60 years.

Opinions?

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poonther Town

poonther

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Again TJ, you've provided some very interesting info. here lately on this project. Thanks for keeping us updated. I just wish the Democrat would do the same and provide in-depth info. like you have.

Slightly off the subject, I must say this is the time for public input for this project, for and against and making sure it conforms to the community's desires. If citizens are gonna get involved in the process and direction, it should be done now at conception. The reason I bring this point up is b/c I get tired of the "too late" grandstanding for the media our citizens and politicians(you know who I'm talking about) do. When the bulldozers are knocking down the trees and the construction companies and trailers are on-site, that is not the time for opposition and rallies b/c it's a "day late and a dollar short."

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seminole Whistle-Stop

seminole

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Exactly. We don't need to look desperate, nor do we need to look unfriendly to business as previously stated. We can't continue to send mixed messages. If we want to grow this city and bring in new business, we're going to have to bend in certain areas. The GGG (Get Gaines Going) committee that I'm on with KCCI, has decided it will step back and allow the information to come in before it makes a decision. Many in the beginning responded much the same way Poonther and AiT have, but have since decided they'll sit back and await the details of the proposal, and any opportunity the committee may have to direct the course of action.

Another problem I find, and this is no one's fault in particular, is that we all have a different idea of what the Gaines Street Plan is. I read it cover to cover and I feel the Hotel on the corner was the perfect start for the area. It wouldn't bother me to see more buildings in it's image, such as the building that was previously proposed for the Place Properties Apartments that has since died away. But the type of stores I imagined were Wal-Greens Pharmacy, Borders Bookstore or something similar, Starbucks Coffee or something compatible, Hard Rock Cafe or something similar, Arts Museum, Beauty Salons, Barber Shops, Greeting Card Stores, Concert Venues, Neon Lighting at Night, Bright Cheerful Color, urban landscaping, with 4-6 story buildings lining the corridor from the intersection of Gaines and Railroad to Woodward Avenue.

Image of Place Properties Apartment Proposal that was rejected by the City of Tallahassee last year:

PlaceProperties1.jpg

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Florida Megalopolis

Florida

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I don't remember, but why was the project rejected? I believe there was one project that was rejected because the COT didn't want to subsidize student housing or felt they didn't want student housing in a particular location. For some reason

The Exchange also comes to mind. :dunno:

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thetoolman Whistle-Stop

thetoolman

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It is my feeling that it will take the resources of another large corporation (in addition to Marriott) to:

  • Bring foot and vehicle traffic to the area (a mature, confident operation)

  • clean up some property that would be too costly for a local retailer to clean up (possibly address environmental issues with some of the properties)

  • establish infrastructure that is beyond the means of other possible candidates (parking garage)

  • show momentum and potential for the area (demonstrate to other smaller retailers that it is worth the risk)

  • grow the retail market that is currently non-existent on the scale that any other smaller name retailers are looking for (take on more risk than others can or will)

  • build something in advance of the market actually being there to support it

  • pick a good small scale concept that fits in the area's plan (not a supercenter)

It is fortunate that a company like Walmart has the vision and financial resources to overlook all of the negatives and is willing to consider making an investment in the community, especially given that in a community our size such a project could cannibalize sales at some of its other existing stores.

Having never seen a "neighborhood market" it is tough to say how it will impact the character of the area, and I would like to see one before I say it is the right fit. However, it does appear to have lots of positives, and would be interesting to see.

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bahmo Whistle-Stop

bahmo

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If Gaines is going to wind up with a Wal-Mart, Walgreens, Starbucks, Ruby Tuesdays, Supercuts, and Cici's Pizza, why not consider dumping the fancy pedestrian/art district concept and just make it the standard strip mall city street like Ocala?

If we try to create something artsy and inviting, like Park Avenue in Winter Park or the Mesa example, but wind up with Wal-Mart and Cici's, people will laugh out loud at this city. We are already a city that retains few of its two universities' graduates, builds sprawldivisions 40 minutes outside town despite being a spoke city with limited roadway options, could soon have nearly as many Wal-Marts as Chinese restaurants, does nothing but talk about fixing roads that have been flood zones since they were first paved 30 years ago, and just generally seems to lack any sense of vision or long-term commitment. How perfect would it be to come up with a grand plan for a really neat place that the whole area could support and be proud of and then wind up with Ocala Road east.

Drop the pretense of doing something special, simply acknowledge that the area needs to be developed into something useful, knock down the warehouses, and let Wal-Mart come build its grocery store next to a bunch of crappy college apartments.

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