Charlotte-Douglas Airport (CLT) Expansion

[NeilD]

LKN704,

 

Thats just it. There's no large airports in the NW mountain counties and the FAA would probably never  approve the development of one when it would be sandwiched between TRI and HKY. Part of their mandate is to prevent the unnecessary duplication of facilities when existing airports can do the job.

A large airport could cost hundreds of millions if not over a billion. All the tree removal and tree trimming necessary would be so unpopular and impossible with the protected forests, parks and environmentalists residing in the mountains.  To put it in Jefferson or adapt  Wilkesboro would really be no closer to Boone or ASU than Hickory now is and HKY is already connected by a 4-lane highway and is part 139 certified for airline service. Nothing more is needed in  terms of infrastructure.

The Hickory airport did in the past serve the Northwestern counties and combined they could put up the kind of population and wealth base to support it. As recently as 2005 - HKY had Delta Connection (ASA) CRJ-200 regional jet service to ATL - but they were not marketing the area effectively even then.  

 

I would have printed on the tickets "Hickory-Boone, NC" to demonstrate the market served.  People have to be just as excited over visiting the Blue Ridge Parkway and Grandfather Mountain as they are of seeing the Hickory Furniture shopping or the  Crawdads minor league baseball team.  Problem is right now - Hickory effectively cannot market for High Country host attractions and High Country host cannot market for Hickory area attractions.  They are only strong enough to attract national attention together NOT separately.  

The four counties of the Hickory MSA have about 375,000 residents and are much larger business centers than Watauga county (53,000 reaidents) or any of the relatively small mountain counties.

Another idea I pitched was the consolidation of the marketing and chambers of commerce into one large and powerful marketing force.  In other words, combine the Hickory-Lenoir-Morganton area with Boone-Blowing Rock-Wilkesboro-Statesville-Marion and jointly promote this airport and NW NC foothills/mountain region nationally to tourists. You would have more than 800,000 year-around residents in that case as a market base plus tourists and seasonal residents.   

On their own, these individual county chambers of commerce are too small and functionally ineffective to market the area nationally. Combining would give the resources and population base to attract airline service and to make the case that reliance on GSO and CLT does work well for the NW corner - the drive times are just too far from places like Sparta, Newland and Jefferson. 

It seems that each county wanted to keep its own little "country fiefdom" rather than work together. Those kind of "gentleman's agreements" not to "step on each other's toes" or encroach into others counties or compete with each other really hold everything back. It sad and counterproductive to that economically ailing (but stunningly beautiful) area. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by NeilD

[Windsurfer]

"  All the tree removal and tree trimming necessary would be so unpopular and impossible with the protected forests, parks and environmentalists residing in the mountains.  "

Those pesky environmentalists.

 

 

[HopHead]

The Charlotte Douglas Airport facebook page added some new updates to the main terminal roadway expansion. Seems to be coming along nicely. Man, that will be a lot more room

https://www.facebook.com/cltairport/posts/1159681457416327

[jednc]

On 6/6/2016 at 7:47 PM, NeilD said:

Having airline service at Concord will help to provide lower fares to the Charlotte region overall and could even influence fares at CLT on select routes.   

More than a "small handful" of people are using the Allegiant service. In 2014 it hosted 12,000 boardings and 12,000 passenger deboardings. 

By 2015 it had grown to more than 30,000  enplaned, 30,000 deplaned and destinations increased to 3 cities in Florida. This is impressive considering that Allegiant doesnt fly daily but usually only twice per WEEK for each route.

Factor that in when someone begins to complain about airport noise. That's less than 20-30 seconds of noise 4 times per week for each route served. Passenger stats at Concord will no doubt increase. 

As far as the needed investments to better accommodate airlines are concerned - they really are conservative and modest in scope  

The city of concord is paying for the parking deck and will receive future revenue benefits that will more than pay for the cost of construction. As a matter of fact, the airport needs these spaces anyway  as the airline's passengers are consumming parking spaces already needed to support pre-existing General aviation purposes. 

The airfield is already ready for expanded service. The simple, barebones terminal building and ramp will undoubtedly be paid for with grant funds from the FAA's Airport and Airway Trust Fund.  

Unlike most government expenditures that are sourced from general tax dollars - this money comes from the users of the nation's aviation system themselves - in the form of collected taxes existing since 1970 on airline tickets, taxes on the sale of aviation fuels and air cargo waybills.

This unique self-funding mechanism ensures that airports, aviation operators and consumers that have historically "paid in" to the fund can seek grants that pay as much as 90% of the cost of this development. 

Is that a good investment? This building will accommodate additional airlines and new service. 

Even "tourist" flights will have a beneficial economic impact on the Charlotte area typically on the order of tens to hundred of millions of beneficial economic impact each year.

Allegiant operates at secondary airports precisely because it IS much cheaper than setting up operations at a large and busy airport like CLT.  Charlotte only has relatively low costs when compared to other large airports NOT low costs in and of themselves. 

Concord is a very successful and busy General Aviation airport - whose GA traffic more than helps to sustain its total operating budget. This commercial terminal is needed because the airline is currently consuming valuable hangar, parking, ramp and GA terminal space. 

As far as the costs of TSA security is concerned - the budgeting for additional Concord police officers could mean that the airport is seeking a TSA-opt out and TSA reimbursement strategy.  

Commercial airlines are a relatively small additional part of the services offered at this airport. 

 A few years ago - I tried to convince the manager of the Hickory regional airport to pursue Allegiant. Hickory had a long history of airline service - between 1941-2005. I told him that if he didn't - Concord would make the moves to become the Charlotte regions 2nd commercial airport.

I specifically remember him saying "that wouldn't happen" because Concord was just "too close" to Charlotte for that to develop.  

Well, we can all see what HAS occurred.  

I'm happy for Concord - but I also feel sad for Hickory - I live in CT now but did live their for 15 years and I think this squandered opportunity will mean that airline service will probably never again return to Hickory or Northwestern North Carolina for that matter. Considering all that NC has to offer tourists in its northwestern blue ridge mountains counties - that is a real shame.  A failure of imagination and competent leadership.

Ugh. 

 

If you are interested in how airports operate - may I suggest this page that I use to promote my current airport - Tweed-New Haven in Connecticut  

https://m.facebook.com/tweedfacts

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/apl/aatf/media/AATF_Fact_Sheet.pdf

http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allcargo_stats/passenger/media/cy14-commercial-service-enplanements.pdf

I wish you had been more successful in convincing the airport and chambers of commerce to combine their marketing efforts. I grew up in Morganton and while the city and county are somewhat successful in attracting tourists, I think a combined approach with the NWNC region would bring even more people and money to that region. I hope it's not too late, but Concord's success does put that in jeopardy.

[kermit]

File under 'nobody has any idea but this jackass will speculate anyway'

My money on local Brexit impacts is for upguaging service between CLT and both Frankfurt and Paris as European financial sector activities shift away from London. A longer shot (but not an outrageous possibility): CLT-Zurich non-stops.

[LKN704]

Brexit will surely impact the European aviation market, but I would venture that it is too soon to tell what impact it will have on transatlantic routes in the future. The UK is currently not part of the Schengen area, and if I were to fly CLT-LHR-VIE (Vienna) tomorrow on AA/BA, I would have to go through EU arrival/departure controls at VIE, rather than at LHR. If one were to take the Eurostar between London and Paris right now, you would still be obliged to go through EU immigration in Paris.

In that regards, LHR will still be a large connecting hub for Europe, and for the Oneworld alliance. As such, I expect CLT-LHR flights will continue as planned, at their current frequency.

I doubt business traffic FRA will grow an amount large enough to warrant additional CLT-FRA frequencies.

I have often wondered about a CLT-ZRH nonstop flight...yet I see it as unlikely. US never attempted it when they were a member of the Star Alliance-at a time they codeshared extensively with Swiss. AA has struggled with PHL-ZRH (a much larger market) and demoted the route to seasonal only service. AA also operated DFW-ZRH for many years (and was once AA's more lucrative route, only to drop the flight once Swiss joined Star).

The only thing I see CLT getting out of this is the remote possibility of Lufthansa attempting CLT-FRA service in addition to their MUC flight.

[caterpillar2]

25 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

Brexit will surely impact the European aviation market, but I would venture that it is too soon to tell what impact it will have on transatlantic routes in the future. The UK is currently not part of the Schengen area, and if I were to fly CLT-LHR-VIE (Vienna) tomorrow on AA/BA, I would have to go through EU arrival/departure controls at VIE, rather than at LHR. If one were to take the Eurostar between London and Paris right now, you would still be obliged to go through EU immigration in Paris.

In that regards, LHR will still be a large connecting hub for Europe, and for the Oneworld alliance. As such, I expect CLT-LHR flights will continue as planned, at their current frequency.

I doubt business traffic FRA will grow an amount large enough to warrant additional CLT-FRA frequencies.

I have often wondered about a CLT-ZRH nonstop flight...yet I see it as unlikely. US never attempted it when they were a member of the Star Alliance-at a time they codeshared extensively with Swiss. AA has struggled with PHL-ZRH (a much larger market) and demoted the route to seasonal only service. AA also operated DFW-ZRH for many years (and was once AA's more lucrative route, only to drop the flight once Swiss joined Star).

The only thing I see CLT getting out of this is the remote possibility of Lufthansa attempting CLT-FRA service in addition to their MUC flight.

This will not be in effect for two years. There will be little to no noticeable changes in any flight patterns as a result. If anything, it is possible that England will be able to give us a cheap charter flight between London/Manachester and Clt. 

[CLT704]

I want CLT-Manchester back! 

 

Surely Brexit would actually affect Lufthansa on MUC-CLT?

[caterpillar2]

5 hours ago, CLT704 said:

I want CLT-Manchester back! 

 

Surely Brexit would actually affect Lufthansa on MUC-CLT?

Why would it? 

[CLT704]

Because Brexit has affected the World market and LH doesn't have the connectivity here on the US side and has the higher cost of a foreign station with 1 daily flight makes them less competitive and cost-effective than AA with a larger amount of connectivity on the US side (albeit with out the connectivity in Europe which is covered by BA) and a larger hub, AA could easily operate CLT-MUC covering BMW whilst having large connectivity and lower cost. 

[NeilD]

In line with the mentioning of Swiss Air service to Zurich - it was interesting to see the coverage of the NASA - FAA - USDOT - CLT collaborative research lab establishment at Charlotte. CLT really will have some of the latest NextGen technologies first before other airports and regions. 

Read the article at this link and view the video. The animations showing the D concourse interestingly has a Swiss wide body aircraft in the picture. 

https://americansecuritytoday.com/air-travel-getting-safer-charlotte-intl-airport/

 

[CLT704]

Prehaps it's a hint! I mean what's the point of animating a different livery if they don't service the airport (yet  )

Edited June 25, 2016 by CLT704

[Synopsis101]

Just saw that Swiss Air Lines is under Lufthansa Group.

[uptownliving]

It is nice that we were selected to be a lab for ATD-2. I'm hopeful that it will indeed reduce taxi and gate hold times. That seems to be a recurring theme when using CLT is that you have to wait for an available gate when flying AA and you arrive back at CLT. And being number 10 in line for take off is not uncommon either. However I would throw out some caution that when you are on the bleeding edge of technology that is being beta tested it is prone to fudge ups...so hopefully the fudge ups that will happen in the testing ot ATD-2 at CLT won't produce any huge delays.

[LKN704]

LX is indeed part of the LH Group, as is Austrian and Brussels Airlines. LH may also have a stake in SAS (Scandinavian Airline System)....I need to check on that though.

Interesting that they choose a LX bird though...

 

[xapostrophe]

So i like the idea of the swiss flights here but there are a bunch of things wrong with the video. like non rjs at e con.   soooo maybe its a stretch to expect flights like that.

[NeilD]

Could it be the E-175 you are seeing in the E-Concourse animation? It would look rather large in comparison with CRJ-200s? 

 

For American Eagle - Envoy, Compass and Republic all fly this model aircraft and could use the E-concourse. 

[xapostrophe]

5 hours ago, NeilD said:

Could it be the E-175 you are seeing in the E-Concourse animation? It would look rather large in comparison with CRJ-200s? 

 

For American Eagle - Envoy, Compass and Republic all fly this model aircraft and could use the E-concourse. 

I thought about that. but the apu exhaust is that of a bus in the animation and the rest of the details are aircraft correct.  dont get me wrong its just an animation. would be cool to see a bunch of new international flights in charlotte though

[KJHburg]

Allegiant adding another Florida destination from Concord Regional http://www.independenttribune.com/news/allegiant-adding-more-florida-flights/article_a9a94f64-3d3d-11e6-831a-7f93d216c65b.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[CLT704]

Is anyone else sick and tired of American and their expensive flights?! I'm flying to England in 2 weeks, on a $1,800 ticket, and AA wants me to pay $71 one-way for an aisle seat at the back of the plane! I would absolutely love for Delta to offer flights from Charlotte to London on their 757s! 

[15895]

 

I'm driving to Washington DC for a flight to Salvador De Bahia, Brazil (DC - NYC - Sao Paulo - Salvador). Charlotte is like 1,000 more than DC or ATL. Which is crazy. I'm a Delta Skymiles member when I live in Charlotte.... Because it's always much more expensive to fly American. But I understand. I'm not complaining

Edited July 5, 2016 by AirNostrumMAD

[HopHead]

Charlotte one of 10 cities that was recommended for non-stop service to Havana, Cuba. Service likely to start later this year. 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/biz-columns-blogs/development/article88152572.html

[CLT2014]

That's pretty awesome! 

Looks like American Airlines got 5 of the 20 slots to Havana. 4 flights per day from Miami and 1 flight per day from Charlotte. 

Other cities that will have a flight(s) to Havana include Tampa, Orlando, New York-JFK, Newark, Houston (Sat. service only), Atlanta, Fort Lauderdale, and Los Angeles. 

Connecting in Miami for CLT based passengers will probably end up being much cheaper than the one nonstop from CLT though :/ Miami and Fort Lauderdale will have service from JetBlue, Frontier, Spirit, and Delta as well to keep American Airlines in check at MIA.

Edited July 7, 2016 by CLT2014

[LKN704]

AA was supposedly having a press conference regarding the new flight near the E checkpoint this afternoon. Does anyone have any info from that?

 

[urbanlover568]

apologies if this has already been posted.