Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[Padman]

We could argue forever on the benefits of LRT vs. BRT. I'm in favor of combining both (with other things), but BRT has some very strong advantages in that it can follow market demand as it evolves, costs less (in theory anyway), and it can use already constructed infrastructure (HOV lanes especially). The HOV emphasis reduces interference with existing traffic and makes better use of under-utilized corridors. LRT won't interrupt traffic as much, but grade elevations from Newtown to say Rosemont or beyond will be expensive. I think we will have to have at least some grade elevations at Pembroke and elsewhere.

It's also true that the City of VB is emphasizing denser growth patterns along the Va Beach corridor with the use of the so called Strategic Growth Areas. I wouldn't call it Smart Growth, just higher uses and revitalization where infrastructure is in place.

I guess there's a difference (and also a link) between dreaming and planning. It's best to start with a dream, then get knocked about with the limits and the realities. Then plans can be formed. The main difference between a bureaucrat and a planner is that planners continue to remember their dreams.

[Chesapeake Pirate]

Subject: Invitation from Councilman Randy Wright

July 2, '07

Councilman Randy Wright has asked that we extend this invitation to DNC Members.

Presented in-part by Hampton Roads Transit (HRT)

THINKING

BEYOND

THE STATION:

Creating Great Places Around Transit

July 15, 2007

11:30am - 4:30pm

Norfolk Waterside Marriott

11:30am - 12:30pm

Registration, Lunch, Networking

12:30 - 1:30pm

Role of Transit in Creating Communities

Featured Speakers Include:

The Honorable Joe S. Frank ~ Mayor of Newport News

The Honorable Barbara W. Henley ~ Virginia Beach City Councilwoman

The Honorable Randy Wright ~ Norfolk City Councilman

Moderator

Dana Dickens ~ Hampton Roads Partnership

1:30 - 4:30

Additional Workshops

(For more information call 435-5961)

Copyright

[Case]

Ohh, lease we forget political persuasions, but of Course....EVERYONE....knows that:

Trains / Mass transit = Liberals

Cars / Roads = Conservatives

Not quite:

1. I'm a Republican who was a member of the Virginia Beach Republican City Committee 1998-2005.

2. James Toscano, HRT's chief lobbyist, is a former aide for Bob McDonnell.

Not such a neat box.

My point exactly......Issues ,which in my opinion, have nothing to do with "left or right" are constantly being forced into those absurd ideological boxes creating artificial fights for elections. Ultimately preventing whats most important.....progress.

Edited July 3, 2007 by Case

[vdogg]

Tranfer of NS ROW to HRT

The right of way transfer goes before city council tommorrow. Warning! Large .pdf file

[Henry_Ryto]

As I've said before, the major bus routes (1, 15, and 20) are too busy at rush hour to be handled well by the "toasters on wheels." We need some sort of new system to cover them; it looks like it will be LRT now.

I took the bus into Norfolk today to see a matinee of Michael Moore's "Sicko". Catching the 20 home, I hit a myriad of problems: 18 minutes late leaving downtown, standees front to back, etc. The standee problem was so bad that at a couple stops people decided to wait for the next bus rather than pile in with us.

We need trains, every 7.5 minutes at rush hour.

[Glassoul]

...standees front to back, etc. The standee problem was so bad that at a couple stops people decided to wait for the next bus rather than pile in with us.

That happens anywhere. I live in Montreal, which arguably has one of the best public transport systems in North America. Missing buses or a subway train because of them being full is not uncommon during rush hours and that's with the subway running every 3 minutes and buses every 5 (when they're not late). Train service during rush hours here is like every 10 minutes, and they're jammed packed, especially from 7-8 and 4-5. And getting a seat? That is the exception rather than the norm for any time of day on any mode of transport unless you happen to live near the terminus of whatever you're getting onto or you're using it at like 1:45pm, or some other off hour time. That's just one reason why I'm very skeptical that light rail will work in HR, that service will be too infrequent to get people to use it.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Glassoul

[lil-bear]

I think that HR will warm to the idea of using LR.

It might take a while but we're talking about changing

citizens' habits and that won't happen over night!

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed for a long time concerning LR in HR!

[Henry_Ryto]

That happens anywhere. I live in Montreal, which arguably has one of the best public transport systems in North America. Missing buses or a subway train because of them being full is not uncommon during rush hours and that's with the subway running every 3 minutes and buses every 5 (when they're not late). Train service during rush hours here is like every 10 minutes, and they're jammed packed, especially from 7-8 and 4-5. And getting a seat? That is the exception rather than the norm for any time of day on any mode of transport unless you happen to live near the terminus of whatever you're getting onto or you're using it at like 1:45pm, or some other off hour time. That's just one reason why I'm very skeptical that light rail will work in HR, that service will be too infrequent to get people to use it.

I've been to Montreal and rode the Metro. A very good system.

As for Hampton Roads, the planned frequencies are the lightest possible that people will still ride: every 15 minutes midday, every 7.5 minutes at rush hour. If ridership is high, we can always go back and add frequencies later. Where I have a problem with the planned schedule:

1. Only every 30 minutes in the evening.

2. Shutting down at 10 P.M. Monday-Thursday.

That's too early if you're trying to get home from a Tides or Admirals game.

[Sky06]

I've been to Montreal and rode the Metro. A very good system.

As for Hampton Roads, the planned frequencies are the lightest possible that people will still ride: every 15 minutes midday, every 7.5 minutes at rush hour. If ridership is high, we can always go back and add frequencies later. Where I have a problem with the planned schedule:

1. Only every 30 minutes in the evening.

2. Shutting down at 10 P.M. Monday-Thursday.

That's too early if you're trying to get home from a Tides or Admirals game.

It seems with new things such as this, we tend to underestimate use and plan for that. When's the last time traffic figures were overestimated around here? During WWI? If this goes reasonably smoothly, I have to believe people with catch the Tide in fairly significant figures. People like new things, especially when it comes to having someone else do the driving.

[Telmnstr]

Where will the light rail train(s) get parked? Will it make a good mobile billboard for budding artists? Who, if they do paint, will hopefully paint more than the garbage throwups you see around town?

[brikkman]

It seems with new things such as this, we tend to underestimate use and plan for that. When's the last time traffic figures were overestimated around here? During WWI? If this goes reasonably smoothly, I have to believe people with catch the Tide in fairly significant figures. People like new things, especially when it comes to having someone else do the driving.

I plan to ride it, even if I only ride it on the weekends. I will definitely ride it if it extends to the ocean front. I would love to be able to hop on the "Tide" I thinks that the name of it, and ride it to Town Center to PF Cheins after shopping at MacArther Center.

[skylinefan]

If I'm not back in Norfolk by the time the LR is open, I will definately do my part by riding Light Rail to Military Circle from Downtown whenever I get a chance to visit. I think this system will remake Hampton Roads into a first rate metro.

[Henry_Ryto]

I went to the APTA TOD Conference today.

1. Contrary to a previous story in The Virginian-Pravda, HRT gave a presentation on Norfolk LRT that had the system operating 6 A.M.-Midnight daily.

That means we can take it home from midweek Admirals games.

2. We were told the key to LRT stations is to make them more than transit stations, focal points for the community. Don't assume people will walk in the area: make it pedestrian-friendly.

3. Best line of the day, "BRT is the Barry Bonds of rapid transit...a bus on steroids."

[Surferheel]

Henry,

I was there as well. I guess I was somewhat out of the loop, but I was unaware of the inner connectivity plan between the seven cities. I realize this will not happen for many years, but I am pleased that the localities at least have a long term plan. I would love nothing better than hopping on a train from Olde Towne Portsmouth (where I live) and commuting to VB Town Center (where I work).

I was very impressed by all of the speakers as well. In particular Coucilman Wright of Norfolk showed great passion for the plan.

[kjice2]

What does that have to deal with this forum????????

[cpeakesqr]

What does that have to deal with this forum????????

Two words...spam and viruses!

[Glassoul]

Where will the light rail train(s) get parked? Will it make a good mobile billboard for budding artists? Who, if they do paint, will hopefully paint more than the garbage throwups you see around town?

I'm sure they'll have advertising on the sides, much like the buses do (and probably presented in the same format as well). Likewise, I would expect at the very least a scrolling LED sign inside the trains for passengers which would include adverts inbetween news headlines and weather updates. An enterprsing individual might look into that, or researching what other areas are doing... Of course a really cool idea would be to offer wifi inside the trains and at the stations. I bet that would attract some daily commuters, but probably wouldn't be feasible until they could expand the line from the naval base to the oceanfront.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Glassoul

[Glassoul]

Forgot to add that the new Charlotte Light Rail, LYNX, which is similar in length to the proposed Norfolk LRT was also orginally forecast to cost $225M, but ended up costing $460M... Any guesses on how much the initial line costs Norfolk? I'll wager $306M, mostly due to what will be termed, "rising construction costs".

I also predict that Telmnstr will be particularly enraged at this excuse of hackjob accounting (by my reasoning, basically a lie propogated by proponents of LRT in order to get the thing built, and just good ol'fashion skimming by the HR old money by Telmnstr's, but same end result). He knows that during the planned construction period most, if not all, US contractors and construction workers will be unemployed from the housing crash, with raw materials having also experienced a similar downard spiral and therefore construction costs should be decreasing. The Virginian Pilot's comment boxes will never have seen such wrath from one person!

Edited July 16, 2007 by Glassoul

[rusthebuss]

Forgot to add that the new Charlotte Light Rail, LYNX, which is similar in length to the proposed Norfolk LRT was also orginally forecast to cost $225M, but ended up costing $460M... Any guesses on how much the initial line costs Norfolk? I'll wager $306M, mostly due to what will be termed, "rising construction costs".

I also predict that Telmnstr will be particularly enraged at this excuse of hackjob accounting (by my reasoning, basically a lie propogated by proponents of LRT in order to get the thing built, and just good ol'fashion skimming by the HR old money by Telmnstr's, but same end result). He knows that during the planned construction period most, if not all, US contractors and construction workers will be unemployed from the housing crash, with raw materials having also experienced a similar downard spiral and therefore construction costs should be decreasing. The Virginian Pilot's comment boxes will never have seen such wrath from one person!

Dude that is too funny! He probably will agree with your comment!

[vdogg]

I must be losing my mind, I could've sworn I posted this this morning.

Norfolk forum touts transits role in development

[Glassoul]

I must be losing my mind, I could've sworn I posted this this morning.

Norfolk forum touts transits role in development

That article has the best comment I've read on any of the Pilot comments section. I lol'ed.

"You morons need to ride the Tide right out of office!!!"

[cpeakesqr]

That article has the best comment I've read on any of the Pilot comments section. I lol'ed.

"You morons need to ride the Tide right out of office!!!"

That guy is always posting comments about voting elected officials out of office. I read one from Ethan O. the other day that would compete with this one for funniest Pilot comment.

[urbanvb]

Who is Ethan?

[brikkman]

I feel like LRT is a go even though it has not become official yet. Everyone has plans wrapped around LRT and hopefully this will jump start a real connection within the 757. Now if we can get DT Norfolk, TC, and the Oceanfront to adjust their times of operations, it will really help this area come full circle. Big riders of LRT initially will be NSU students (freshman and die-hard students in particular), teenagers and ME, LOL. Once all urban centers are connected as well as Elizabeth City, people will really start to see the benefit of LRT (even if they choose to hate on the outside). In fact, I believe if LRT reaches Elizabeth City, it will do wonders for our economy. No one mentions connecting Elizabeth City!!!

[Henry_Ryto]

According to Virginia News Source, Meyera Oberndorf has already made the first promise of her 2008 reelection campaign: to bring light rail to Town Center.