Norfolk Light Rail and Transit

[vdogg]

HAH! So much for cheap enthusiasm. $6.1 million was diverted to purchase hybrid-electric buses for Norfolk and the rest was put in the bank. Bottom line - no money for light rail Right of Way purchase. I guess we are in the mix with every asphalt project to be funded under the strange regional approach they approved in the transportation bill.

So wait a minute. Does this mean that Norfolk can't purchase the right of way this year or does it mean that Virginia Beach can't purchase the right of way? Was either city absolutely dependant on getting that money to get the right of way?

[wghent]

So wait a minute. Does this mean that Norfolk can't purchase the right of way this year or does it mean that Virginia Beach can't purchas the right of way? Was either city absolutely dependant on getting that money to get the right of way?

This means that both cities will have to come up with another source of money - other than this $10 million state funding from last year that went to Va Beach for the buses they no longer want - money that they hoped to divert to this task. Now this money is going to Norfolk's hybrid buses and to the general kitty. I think the earmark was deleted when the transportation bill was finalized and Hampton Roads was given its own authority to do someting about transportation policy. This earmark for light rail was seen as usurping the "authority" of the regional authority. This certainly puts a reordering of the transportation priorities of the region (tar and guardrails first) on the agenda of everyone who wants to see light rail. The Hampton Roads Planning District Commission is the first place to start.

I have no idea what the new source will be, though the cost negotiated with NS for the Norfolk section was right at what this would have provided Norfolk ($5 million under one version of the amendment) (a conversation with a highly placed Norfolk official confirmed they were counting upon this money). I don't think this screws the deal - just means some creative scrounging. Norfolk is too committed, but the bill by Sen Rerras to have Norfolk reduce its tax base will cut into any available funds.

I really worry about the Va Beach portion of the line, since that will have to be nailed down soon and the other government costs (Oceana open space, etc.) are high and the anti-tax crowd is lurking. I think on the positive side, the shift of opinion within Va Beach gov't is very encouraging.

[vdogg]

This means that both cities will have to come up with another source of money - other than this $10 million state funding from last year that went to Va Beach for the buses they no longer want - money that they hoped to divert to this task. Now this money is going to Norfolk's hybrid buses and to the general kitty. I think the earmark was deleted when the transportation bill was finalized and Hampton Roads was given its own authority to do someting about transportation policy. This earmark for light rail was seen as usurping the "authority" of the regional authority. This certainly puts a reordering of the transportation priorities of the region (tar and guardrails first) on the agenda of everyone who wants to see light rail. The Hampton Roads Planning District Commission is the first place to start.

I have no idea what the new source will be, though the cost negotiated with NS for the Norfolk section was right at what this would have provided Norfolk ($5 million under one version of the amendment) (a conversation with a highly placed Norfolk official confirmed they were counting upon this money). I don't think this screws the deal - just means some creative scrounging. Norfolk is too committed, but the bill by Sen Rerras to have Norfolk reduce its tax base will cut into any available funds.

I really worry about the Va Beach portion of the line, since that will have to be nailed down soon and the other government costs (Oceana open space, etc.) are high and the anti-tax crowd is lurking. I think on the positive side, the shift of opinion within Va Beach gov't is very encouraging.

While the shift of opinion in Va. Beach is encouraging, I feel it will still be a long hard fight to get light rail out here. I would have loved for all of this to have happened yesterday, but right now I'm pinning all my hopes on Norfolk due to their already large financial committment and the fact that they just want it more. I think they'll find a way to scratch out funding for this, but I have my doubts as to whether construction can actually start this year. I have always been nervous about the states portion of the funding for this. There are just way too many hands in the cookie jar for funding for light rail to make it through unscathed. Add to this the fact that this "regional authority" requires a majority of the 7 cities to agree on transportation priorities, when the same cities have trouble just agreeing on what time of day it is, and I think it's time for Norfolk to develop a contingency plan.

[erdogs]

The other cities need to realize light rail is needed before it is needed. If you wait till it is needed, it will be too late. This is called foreward thinking, looking at the bigger picture. In ten years they will all be crying about not having an alternative mode of transportation while sitting in traffic for two hours going from downtown Norfolk to Town Center. Why build a levey for a cat 3 huricane, knowing one day you will get a cat 5.

[Telmnstr]

Does anyone know what 3 businesses will be bought to build the light rail? I never see it mentioned.

[vdogg]

Twin Cities, Twin Destinies

Norfolk's light rail won't do all the same things as Arlington's heavy rail, but it can do some. If planned right, if the right rules and encouragement and expectations are in place, Norfolk's light rail could lure denser development into a transportation corridor that could accommodate it. It could lure commuters from their cars.

Virginia Beach faces the same dilemma.

If the city is successful in attracting additional density to the boulevard, the current road system won't be able to handle the traffic. Every block would look like Pembroke, all the way to the Oceanfront. That's one more reason for Virginia Beach to join Norfolk's light- rail effort.

Building a commodious urban environment takes vision and planning and tremendous discipline over years and even decades. It's a goal Norfolk and Virginia Beach share.

You know, it's really hard to pin down the pilots view on light rail. Some days they seem for it, some days against it. Today they seem decidedly for it.

[rusthebuss]

Are the authors the same though. Some might believe in it and some don't. I believe there are a few at the pilot that would love to see this place sprout and then there are the others that share the same attitude as the people that write on the pilots comment sections.

[urbanlife]

kind of a stretch in relating the two cities, but Hampton Roads is in a place London was once in when they decided to build the Tube (their underground rail). If you have ever seen London's streets, you would know the city can be hard to navigate. They had a choice at one time to tear down things and put in boulevards or build rail underground. They went with the rail and left the traffic alone to deal with the street patterns. Now they have an amazing ridership and each stop in each district is thriving.

Like I said a stretch, but with a point. If Hampton Roads stops worrying about the traffic and reconfigures the region to rail stops, over time as density and activity happens in these areas, people will soon be complaining of how packed the trains are and that they need to run more often. This effect is beginning to happen here in Portland and we have had light rail and streetcars for roughly 30yrs and still growing with it.

[vdogg]

Norfolk light rail plan continues moving forward

Plans for a starter light rail line that would run from Newtown Road through downtown to the Eastern Virginia Medical Center continue to chug forward. The spending bill now on Gov. Timothy M. Kaine 's desk includes $10 million for the purchase of light rail cars. If approved, it would be the first state money appropriated for the actual construction and operation of Norfolk's proposed rail system.

"It would send a strong message to the Federal Transit Administration that the commonwealth is committed to the project," said Michael Townes, president and chief executive officer of Hampton Roads Transit, which would run the line. That commitment is among the areas federal officials evaluate when deciding whether to finance a project.

Woohoo! Way to go Virginia! Now he has to sign the bill.

[vdogg]

Also:

HRT and Federal Transit Administration officials say they are working to verify cost estimates and that a contract for the federal money could come as early as July. The balance would come from Norfolk ($38 million), the state ($29 million) and other federal sources ($37 million).

[lil-bear]

You know, I still think that Norfolk Southern should have been a good corporate citizen and given the rail right of way to the cities. Would that have been a tax deductible cause it would have been a donation?

[Telmnstr]

You know, I still think that Norfolk Southern should have been a good corporate citizen and given the rail right of way to the cities. Would that have been a tax deductible cause it would have been a donation?

From what I hear, Norfolk Southern is only HQ'ed in Norfolk because some old timers like it here. The majority of the company runs from Atlanta, Roanoake and other places. I know someone who did IT work there, and they wouldn't even hire him as an employee -- they kept him 1099 and paid him peanuts. Majority of computer stuff isn't done locally, it's done from ATL or ROA, anyways. The building in Norfolk -- much of it is other companies.

Giving things away doesn't please shareholders.

[scm]

Railroads are history in Hampton Roads

What an apples to oranges comparison. Great history lesson, terrible application of history to today's conditions. We can start with the fact that in 1950, the total population of Princess Anne County, including Beach borough, was just under 9,000. In 2000, VB's population was over 438,000.

[lammius]

Railroads are history in Hampton Roads

What an apples to oranges comparison. Great history lesson, terrible application of history to today's conditions. We can start with the fact that in 1950, the total population of Princess Anne County, including Beach borough, was just under 9,000. In 2000, VB's population was over 438,000.

Looks like that article is history too. I can't connect to it.

[orulz]

The link is just wrong.

Try this.

[vdogg]

Light Rail ROW Purchase Agreement http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png' alt=':)'> Warning! .pdf file

They sure are chugging right along. This will be voted on in tommorrows council meeting. Also, with the gov. and republicans having reaching an agreement it looks like that Kaine will be signing that transportation bill into law, and with it, the money needed to purchase the light rail cars.

[vdogg]

This is from the Feb. 2nd City managers update. Nothing big, just more info on the process.

[vdogg]

This site will be constantly updated with the progress of the light rail project, including which phase of development each area of the city is in.

[vdogg]

Light Rail ROW Purchase Agreement Warning! .pdf file

They sure are chugging right along. This will be voted on in tommorrows council meeting. Also, with the gov. and republicans having reaching an agreement it looks like that Kaine will be signing that transportation bill into law, and with it, the money needed to purchase the light rail cars.

The measure was approved.

[Merrittk92]

Hampton Roads Transit planners roll on with names for light rail

From the Virginian Pilot

“We want a name the public really likes and can identify with,” said Alan C. Wulkan, a Hampton Roads Transit consultant. “We want it to become as common a household name as other .”

Edited May 15, 2007 by vdogg

[vdogg]

Hampton Roads Transit planners roll on with names for light rail

From the Virginian Pilot

[vdogg]

The most important news of all however is this:

Paul Griffo, Federal Transit Administration spokesman, said the project is

[erdogs]

R&R Partners is being paid $75,000 for its work to name the system.

Is this a joke! They could pay me half that and still get a better name than the ones they have.

[urbanvb]

I was very surprised to read that also. $75k for just coming up with a name? Let me do it!!

[lammius]

Well I'm sure the $75,000 goes farther than JUST the name on a piece of paper. The branding, graphic design, marketing plan, etc. go along with it, I'm sure.