GSP International

[Greenville]

I find this very interesting as many of the current regional jet flights do use the bridges at their gates. If GSP is purchasing additional bridges (both will go on the two unused gates on the end of Concourse A) then they must be counting on future mainline plane flights. Southwest is 100% mainline. Interesting.......

I never understand why airlines sometimes use the bridges and sometimes do not.

I believe the end of Concourse A is where Allegiant Air currently is. If so, there won't be much room for anyone else, as that area is always packed when I am flying out of Concourse A.

I think Southwest is a done deal. And if it's not, then I still like the fact that our airport leadership is preparing for the future. We need that kind of foresight at GSP, especially since it currently has a lot of unfulfilled potential.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Greenville

[distortedlogic]

Just soliciting opinions here; if SW does come to GSP, do you guys expect to see just one route announced, or are you thinking this could be a multiroute development, with multiple daily flights, new routes etc? I would certainly hope for the later, and it would really not make sense to me for SW to come and offer a single route, to New York or something. While such a move might reduce fares the that particular city, it seems like it would do little to help other route fares or increase traffic at the airport. What is standard when an airport "comes" into a new market? With Allegiant, they have just added flights along and along, it this more typical? Or are you thinking there will be flights offered to several existing destinations and the addition of several new ones?

[Clark, you serious?]

Just soliciting opinions here; if SW does come to GSP, do you guys expect to see just one route announced, or are you thinking this could be a multiroute development, with multiple daily flights, new routes etc? I would certainly hope for the later, and it would really not make sense to me for SW to come and offer a single route, to New York or something. While such a move might reduce fares the that particular city, it seems like it would do little to help other route fares or increase traffic at the airport. What is standard when an airport "comes" into a new market? With Allegiant, they have just added flights along and along, it this more typical? Or are you thinking there will be flights offered to several existing destinations and the addition of several new ones?

As a Nashvillian, but soon to be Greenville resident, I have flown Southwest a ton. Typically, when they enter a market they will start with several destinations and multiple flights to those destinations. I would imagine this would be the case with GSP because (I assume) they have plenty of available gates. Now, at an airport like Laguardia or Minneapolis, where gates are hard to get, they may start with less. It will always be SWA's intention to grow each base, though. If Southwest were to come to GSP, I would guess they would start with flights to Baltimore, Chicago-Midway, and Philadelphia, and maybe Nashville, Raleigh, or a Florida city like Ft. Lauderdale, Tampa, or Orlando. Regardless, Southwest at GSP would be unbelievably positive for the area. They are the best in the business at what they do and prices will come down at GSP drastically. I really think GSP is a natural fit for them. They are not in Atlanta or Charlotte or anywhere close. At GSP, they could get in for cheap gate fees and not only draw from the Greenville-Spartanburg area, but they suburbs or Charlotte and ATL, as well as, Asheville and Columbia. Here in Tennessee, many people are known to drive from Knoxville or Chattanooga to Nashville to fly Southwest, much to the dismay of the airports in those towns. I'm personally very hopeful they come to GSP and have a flight to Nashville, which by the way, is a focus city for them. Sure would beat the 6 hour drive or flying through ATL or CLT.

[GvilleSC]

Welcome, to the Greenville forum, 'Clark, you serious'! I hope your move goes well, and look forward to your contributions over here!

Edited July 17, 2009 by GvilleSC

[Greenville]

Welcome to the forum! I am glad you will be moving to Greenville.

I hope you are right about Southwest flying to several destinations upon starting service at GSP. I have never flown Southwest, but I like the fact that they seem to know what they are doing. I would like to see some additional destination cities, such as Nashville, Jacksonville, Baltimore, and Raleigh. But I know that they will probably have the greatest effect on competitors' prices if they fly to destinations already offered at GSP. Either way, their arrival will be very positive for the Greenville-Spartanburg metro.

[gs3]

Noticed this week that GSP has started a recycling program. It may have been going on for a while, but I never spend much time in the terminal....cut it close to flight times. Anyway, had just finished a bottled water and was looking for one of those ugly, 70's looking, shiney, silver trash cans and couldn't find one......then I noticed a new multi compartment unit to separate plastic, glass, paper, etc. These new units are throughout the concourses and have replaced the old trash cans. Good to see the airport trying to be more green.

[gman430]

HELP GSP GET SERVICE TO MIAMI

The Greenville/Spartanburg International Airport is pursuing several initiatives to increase commercial airline service in our community. One of the initiatives we are currently pursuing is nonstop service from GSP to Miami International Airport. Miami is one of the largest markets without nonstop service from GSP, and service to Miami would connect the upstate area not only to Miami itself, but would also provide our community with connecting opportunities to numerous destinations beyond Miami in the Caribbean, Central America and South America.

We have developed a brief on-line survey to determine the level of interest in Miami service, and better assess the potential demand for a nonstop flight from our area. The survey is designed to be completed in five to ten minutes and can be accessed via this link:

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a...7fxl4vgbz/start

We appreciate your participation and look forward to seeing you at GSP on your next trip!

[Greenville]

HELP GSP GET SERVICE TO MIAMI

The Greenville/Spartanburg International Airport is pursuing several initiatives to increase commercial airline service in our community. One of the initiatives we are currently pursuing is nonstop service from GSP to Miami International Airport. Miami is one of the largest markets without nonstop service from GSP, and service to Miami would connect the upstate area not only to Miami itself, but would also provide our community with connecting opportunities to numerous destinations beyond Miami in the Caribbean, Central America and South America.

We have developed a brief on-line survey to determine the level of interest in Miami service, and better assess the potential demand for a nonstop flight from our area. The survey is designed to be completed in five to ten minutes and can be accessed via this link:

http://survey.constantcontact.com/survey/a...7fxl4vgbz/start

We appreciate your participation and look forward to seeing you at GSP on your next trip!

Thanks for the heads up. I just submitted the survey.

This is the type of thing that should be publicized in The Greenville News, on WYFF, WSPA, etc. I wonder how many people even know about this survey?

[gman430]

Don't be suprised if you see an announcement in early September regarding Southwest Airlines. And no i'm not saying it's definitely going to happen either.

Edited July 30, 2009 by citylife

[distortedlogic]

Don't be suprised if you see an announcement in early September regarding Southwest Airlines. And no i'm not saying it's definitely going to happen either.

I can see the Gville news headline now:

"Southwest to Begin Service Out of Columbia; Passes on GSP"

[gman430]

I can see the Gville news headline now:

"Southwest to Begin Service Out of Columbia; Passes on GSP"

No, it won't be like that. Columbia isn't in competition with GSP for the carrier from what i'm hearing. We'll either land Southwest Airlines or we won't. Right now it's looking good though.

Edited July 31, 2009 by citylife

[gman430]

Thanks for the heads up. I just submitted the survey.

This is the type of thing that should be publicized in The Greenville News, on WYFF, WSPA, etc. I wonder how many people even know about this survey?

The airport sent an e-mail alert Wednesday to people interested in GSP, asking them to fill out an online survey to determine the level of interest in direct service to Miami, which would also provide connecting opportunities to the Caribbean, Central America and South America, said Rosylin Weston, GSP spokeswoman. A link to the survey can be found at http://www.gspairport.com, near the bottom of the page.

Source: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20...ONTPAGECAROUSEL

Sad to hear GSP is no longer in the top 100. Hopefully things start to turn around soon.

Edited July 31, 2009 by citylife

[gs3]

I can see the Gville news headline now:

"Southwest to Begin Service Out of Columbia; Passes on GSP"

The one bright spot for GSP is that there is still one airport out there worse....Columbia. They couldn't keep Spirit (low cost). Allegiant left the first time. Came back recently and from what I hear, still isn't doing well there, while they have continued to add frequancy and cities to GSP.

On the above about Miami, I filled in the survey positively, but as a weekly flyer, I question the logic behind this or the need.

We have nonstops to the Miami-Ft.Lauderdale metro already....into Ft.Lauderdale. As for connecting to South America, unless you fly American regularly, you are out of luck. Miami is an American (and One World partners) hub. I've done American out of Miami twice on last minute South Amercian flights when Delta was full out of Atlanta. The only way to describe Miami's operations.....they suck. Though American has built a new concourse, it only works for outbound. Coming in, you still have to go through customs with all other airlines.....old, old, old, cramped, customs.....not enough lanes....not enough employees......and everyone from South America visiting fanily bringing gifts and lots of stuff, which equals slow down and numerous closer inspections. I've vowed never to go international through Miami again. Not a pretty scene.

Any additional service to GSP will be welcomed, but I'd rather see them concentrate on getting nonstop flights on multiple airlines to the same city to add some competition...example, Delta only flies to LGA now. Get USAirways to pick the route back up for some competition.

[distortedlogic]

On the above about Miami, I filled in the survey positively, but as a weekly flyer, I question the logic behind this or the need.

We have nonstops to the Miami-Ft.Lauderdale metro already....into Ft.Lauderdale.

I thought about this as well. I would think there are plenty of other destinations that currently have no service which would be needed more at this time; read anything past the Mississippi.

The gville news article from this morning describes what we aleady knew; the airport continues to diminish. It is down to 53 daily flights, down from 83 in 2004. Passenger traffic year to date is down a whopping 17.4% from last year! And this considering the success of Allegiant. And hard to believe that we have just one daily flight to New York now! It seems the airport is really reaching that critical stage where it needs to really make some big strides, or it will just wither away completely. I am glad to hear that the new director seems to be a go-getter.

[gs3]

I thought about this as well. I would think there are plenty of other destinations that currently have no service which would be needed more at this time; read anything past the Mississippi.

The gville news article from this morning describes what we aleady knew; the airport continues to diminish. It is down to 53 daily flights, down from 83 in 2004. Passenger traffic year to date is down a whopping 17.4% from last year! And this considering the success of Allegiant. And hard to believe that we have just one daily flight to New York now! It seems the airport is really reaching that critical stage where it needs to really make some big strides, or it will just wither away completely. I am glad to hear that the new director seems to be a go-getter.

Dallas on American or Houston on Continental are the most western flights from GSP. If Southwest were to enter the picture, I would hope for something to possibly Phoenix or Vegas, but I feel Southwest would pick 5 cities from here and the ones I believe it would be are Baltimore, Nashville, Orlando, Houston and Tampa or Chicago. Look at their route map sometime, you'll understand my reasoning there.

Keep in mind on the percent down in traffic that almost every U.S. airport is either high single of double digit percent down. That is a factor of the national / world economy. Also, the 30 flights down since 2004 is hardly unique to us. The airline industry has cut national capacity about 25% since that time, so most airports around the country are down on flights in the same range. Still GSP could definitely do better. I hope to see this new director make some positive changes. Time will tell.

[gman430]

I'm not going to fault GSP for the number of flights in and out of the airport that have decreased since 2004 seeing how almost every other airport nationwide is in the same boat. However, I have to wonder why there is only one flight daily now to New York City. Even with the recession, I know the demand is still there for more than one flight. If GSP is the gold mine like some claim to be, then why are the airlines there cutting back instead of keeping or adding flights? GSP does need a flight directly to Miami International but it also needs more western destinations like Denver and Los Angeles. The most important thing now though is for the airport to land a low-cost carrier like Southwest Airlines. I'd try to get incentives from local government entities and companies to get them to come here if that's what it takes. Here is an article from the Independent Mail saying that the City of Anderson has sent a letter to Southwest Airlines offering them moral support to start GSP service: http://www.independentmail.com/news/2009/j...-airlines-move/

[westendlvn]

Isn't the Southwest model to have their flights all be jumpers? I remember on my honeymoon flying "direct" from New Orleans to Seattle, but it took about nine hours and we stopped about five times without changing planes. Even the crew changed during one stop. My wife and I were the only ones on the entire plane that made the entire direct flight.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about Southwest. It would be a life changer for us.

Edited July 31, 2009 by westendlvn

[gs3]

Isn't the Southwest model to have their flights all be jumpers? I remember on my honeymoon flying "direct" from New Orleans to Seattle, but it took about nine hours and we stopped about five times without changing planes. Even the crew changed during one stop. My wife and I were the only ones on the entire plane that made the entire direct flight.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about Southwest. It would be a life changer for us.

Pretty much, though they have backed away from that model slightly. That's why if they came, IMO, they would service the cities named above.....Chicago would be the most distant and that is only little over 1 1/2 hours. While many flights still involve multiple stops, Southwest has work to get a majority of their flights down to only one stop / one change. Southwest still doesn't call their major cities hubs, but look at the route map / timing and everyone knows Phoenix is a "hub". The route structure of Southwest makes Phoenix, Houston (Hobby), Baltimore, Las Vegas, St.Louis and to a smaller degree Nashville, default hubs (on any other airlines with the same routes/flights they would be called hubs).

Something interesting, though not really pertaining to GSP. Looks like Southwest wants to buy Frontier. Considering they serve almost identical destinations from Denver, this isn't a case of wanting the routes, but merely eliminating the competition. Look up the story of what Southwest did to Morris Air when they purchased them. Sad.

[distortedlogic]

If GSP is the gold mine like some claim to be, then why are the airlines there cutting back instead of keeping or adding flights?

Here is an article from the Independent Mail saying that the City of Anderson has sent a letter to Southwest Airlines offering them moral support to start GSP service: http://www.independentmail.com/news/2009/j...-airlines-move/

My thoughts exactly. If GSP is such a "cash cow", then why aren't airlines falling over themselves to expand here? It makes no sense to say it is a gold mine whlile everyone is cutting flights, recession or no. I am not a business expert, but that does not sound like a good business model. The only airline to expand has been Allegiant, and they clearly have a different business model, and have apparently expanded as much as they can. And BTW, airlines have continued to add routes and flights to new cities throughout the recession.

I can understand Anderson Council not having money to give, but to say that GSP is too far removed from Anderson is simply silly. It is what, 40 minutes max up 85? And how close is their alternative? GSP is the airport for the entire upstate and Anderson is part of the region. IF you don't have money this is understandable, but statements like this are part of the mentality that keeps the upstate compartmentalized and ununified in my opinion.

[gs3]

My thoughts exactly. If GSP is such a "cash cow", then why aren't airlines falling over themselves to expand here? It makes no sense to say it is a gold mine whlile everyone is cutting flights, recession or no. I am not a business expert, but that does not sound like a good business model. The only airline to expand has been Allegiant, and they clearly have a different business model, and have apparently expanded as much as they can. And BTW, airlines have continued to add routes and flights to new cities throughout the recession.

Look into some facts man. The flights that there is demand for are a "cash cow". Not the airport. Big difference. Flights operate full at full margin. What similar sized cities have continued to see any significant new service during this recession. I would like to know. Seriously curious. Distortedlogic, please post links.

Just one of thousand of articles abou the cuts in capacity:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...fAXiUQD99IBN3G1

As for at least 60% of Greenville's cuts, it was not due to Greenville, it was due to either airlines bankruptcy or airlines closing/shrinking hubs. Independence - 10 flights a day into GSP went bankrupt. Delta/Comair - 2 flights a day to Orlando and they closed the Orlando hub. USAirways - 3 flights a day to Pittsburgh and they closed the Pittsburgh hub. Delta Connection - 4 flights a day to Cincinnati now 2 a day as the Cincinnati hub is being downsized. Northwest - 3 flights a day to Memphis now 1 flight a day as with the Delta buyout, Memphis hub is deing downsized. That is about 19 flights right there.

Could GSP do better, yes. But GSP still does a pretty good job on all fronts, except price. We do need a lowcost carrier to lower cost, but be prepared for the bitter side effects of a low cost carrier. In many places when Southwest comes in, they take a dominant position and other airlines pull back flights, use smaller equipment, etc, etc. Low cost carriers aren't the nirvana some make them out to be.....unless cattle cars are your idea of nirvana.

[gman430]

Could GSP do better, yes. But GSP still does a pretty good job on all fronts, except price. We do need a lowcost carrier to lower cost, but be prepared for the bitter side effects of a low cost carrier. In many places when Southwest comes in, they take a dominant position and other airlines pull back flights, use smaller equipment, etc, etc. Low cost carriers aren't the nirvana some make them out to be.....unless cattle cars are your idea of nirvana.

Isn't that already the case at GSP? Flights have been cut back this year and 90% of the planes commercial airlines use out of the airport are small regional jets. I'd rather fly on a Southwest plane where I actually don't feel like i'm flying in a sardine can.

Edited July 31, 2009 by citylife

[gs3]

Isn't that already the case at GSP? Flights have been cut back this year and 90% of the planes commercial airlines use out of the airport are small regional jets. I'd rather fly on a Southwest plane where I actually don't feel like i'm flying in a sardine can.

So you want to see MORE cutbacks? I'm just saying be prepared for the downside of an LCC. Let me give one first hand example......I lived in Birmingham for many years. Delta used to control that market with mainline service (737, MD-88, etc). Almost hourly flights to Atlanta, plus Orlando, Cincinati, LGA, DFW. Southwest came in and started taking market share away from Delta. This has gone on for years, and today, I'm not sure Birmingham has one mainline flight left....almost all are regional jet and there are far fewer flight choices out of Birmingham on Delta....total number of flights has continued to erode. Lost market share big time. In many eyes, Southwest is the Wal-Mart of airlines. Hope you understand that analogy.

You must not fly much (too busy in college g-man)?

Sardine can is a Southwest flight with 3 x 3 seating......no first class, no chance for upgrade......you get the middle seat (no assigned seating) and there is a family with screaming kids all around you because they got a cheap flight.

Thank you, but I'll take a small RJ (900 series) with a first class, chance for upgrade.....gate check of my bag so it is waiting when I exit the plane.....minimal boarding and exiting time......and no chance of a middle seat (all 2 x 2) and quicker drink service because there are fewer people to serve. Like your own little private plane.

To each his own.

But, as I've said, Southwest coming here would lower Delta prices, so that would be one positive. Just know that LCC's have a downside (I'm sure Distortedlogic will find the downside/negatives of Southwest first, should they start serving here )

Edited July 31, 2009 by gsupstate

[Greenville]

In my experience, flights out of GSP are seemingly always full. As already mentioned, airlines love GSP because they can charge a higher price and still fill their allotment of seats on each plane. If not for the larger problem of airlines losing money, we would probably see larger planes at GSP (rather than the mostly regional "puddle jumpers"). This is not the fault of GSP's management.

Although it's a very small "study," I can tell you that GSP is a much better airport than Charleston. I usually fly US Airways, and when I have used US Airways out of GSP the flights have been on time and totally full. In contrast, when I fly out of CHS (which, unfortunately is the norm for me), the flights are never full and frequently delayed or cancelled. The same goes for return flights to CHS. I cannot tell you how many times I have been rerouted or even stranded in an airport because the flight into CHS was cancelled. Maybe it's because the flight to CHS was 50% occupied (or less). I realize that this is perhaps a reflection of US Airways, but obviously they see a difference between GSP and CHS.

[gman430]

Although it's a very small "study," I can tell you that GSP is a much better airport than Charleston. I usually fly US Airways, and when I have used US Airways out of GSP the flights have been on time and totally full. In contrast, when I fly out of CHS (which, unfortunately is the norm for me), the flights are never full and frequently delayed or cancelled. The same goes for return flights to CHS. I cannot tell you how many times I have been rerouted or even stranded in an airport because the flight into CHS was cancelled. Maybe it's because the flight to CHS was 50% occupied (or less). I realize that this is perhaps a reflection of US Airways, but obviously they see a difference between GSP and CHS.

So, that's why Charleston has Airtran and GSP doesn't. Gotcha. Oh and don't forget about the direct Miami service either: http://www.thestate.com/breakingbiz/story/879909.html Last time I flew US Airways out of GSP, my flight got cancelled three...yes three times in a row and they had to put me on Delta two days after I was originally supposed to leave.

Edited August 1, 2009 by citylife

[gman430]

So you want to see MORE cutbacks? I'm just saying be prepared for the downside of an LCC. Let me give one first hand example......I lived in Birmingham for many years. Delta used to control that market with mainline service (737, MD-88, etc). Almost hourly flights to Atlanta, plus Orlando, Cincinati, LGA, DFW. Southwest came in and started taking market share away from Delta. This has gone on for years, and today, I'm not sure Birmingham has one mainline flight left....almost all are regional jet and there are far fewer flight choices out of Birmingham on Delta....total number of flights has continued to erode. Lost market share big time. In many eyes, Southwest is the Wal-Mart of airlines. Hope you understand that analogy.

Not sure how a new LCC like Southwest would cause more cutbacks. GSP is a gold mine right? Why would airlines cut back instead of just lowering their prices to gain marketshare back? Delta might have cut back in Birmingham but did Southwest? None of the planes Southwest operates are small regional jets. Like I already said, over 90% of the planes flying in and out of GSP are small regional jets with no first class service. It can't get much worse. Southwest would make it better and lower the prices overall.

Edited August 1, 2009 by citylife