Charlotte's Urban Lowe's Home Improvement

[dubone]

I did see that. It is such a SHAME that the Observer's layoffs seem to be causing them to lower their standards to the level of the local tv news, where they simply regurgitate what one group that calls them has to say! Those idiots in Olmstead Park (the neighborhood in Dilworth with a brick wall all around it) think that an unopened store a block away from them caused criminals to be aware that there is wealth in Dilworth!? Um, how about what the police say, which is that crime is up in the whole city and the whole country due to the economy.

I should contact the Observer with my news that crime is up in Olmstead Park due to their general douchiness. Perhaps I'll get a headline just by virtue of calling them. It seems to be a trend lately.

[Andyc545]

Did anyone see the article in last week's Eye with this headline "Arrival of Lowe's may have led crooks to neighborhood"? Huh? The author says in the first paragraph that residents of Olmsted Park and police believe that the construction of the store has made criminals aware that there are nice houses east of South Boulevard (yep, nobody apparently knew there was a neighborhood back there until this construction project--criminals are dumb that way). In the next paragraph, the author quotes police as saying they don't think the store's construction has anything to do with the recent break-ins. Well which is it?

And I would paste the link up here, but the O site is currently screwed up and the link doesn't work when pasted here. The date of the article is July 21.

Ummm... how ridiculous. Anyone with half a brain and a computer/free library card can get on Google Maps and see where nice areas are, or hell, ask someone... I don't know who's more ridiculous- the criminals or the people writing this crap.

[HopHead]

I did see that. It is such a SHAME that the Observer's layoffs seem to be causing them to lower their standards to the level of the local tv news, where they simply regurgitate what one group that calls them has to say! Those idiots in Olmstead Park (the neighborhood in Dilworth with a brick wall all around it) think that an unopened store a block away from them caused criminals to be aware that there is wealth in Dilworth!? Um, how about what the police say, which is that crime is up in the whole city and the whole country due to the economy.

I should contact the Observer with my news that crime is up in Olmstead Park due to their general douchiness. Perhaps I'll get a headline just by virtue of calling them. It seems to be a trend lately.

As one of the "idiots" that lives in Olmsted Park I will have to say most everyone, myself included, do not blame the Lowe's construction alone for the increase in property crime. Most of the incidents are in the houses and not the condos. Although it is coincidental, especially given that a lot of crimes happen during the day when no one is home, the suddden increase over the last 6 months or so is quite disturbing. Some places have been hit more than once. Many of us are frustrated. One of the reasons why I bought in this neighborhood was b/c it had virtually no crime compared to many other areas around uptown. Now all of the sudden it's a hotspot for property crime? It just doesn't add up. I guess it just goes to show that not every place is immune to the common thug.

[dubone]

I should have added 'present company excluded'.

I really do understand the frustration of property crime happening around you or to you, and it is a really awful thing. An unopened Lowe's is in no way the reason, so for certain moutpieces of the community citing that as a likely cause is absurd and detracts from everyone's ability to find the real reason.

Sadly, common thugs are becoming more common because there is an epidemic of people losing jobs and homes, and that leads some people to steal.

We need to rely on statistics rather than innuendo to understand these things. Human psychology leads to all sorts of false conclusions, but when contrary facts are listed throughout an article, it is sad that the innuendo is what gets slapped in the headline.

I must say, though, that I know from a prior complaint that the headlines are not written by the journalist, but some other team. They might have missed the point, or else simply done it for sensationalism. Regardless, it is sad to see.

[InSouthPark]

We have had a bump in crime in my Carmel Rd/Quail Hallow neighborhood that I live in over the past six months also...and we had virtually no crime a few years ago.

The difference between now and then...nothing!!! There has not been a new building/home built within a mile of me for the past five years. The only thing that has really changed is the economy. Rising prices creates more desperation and those flat screen tv's start looking more attractive to thieves no matter where you live. Desperate times call for desperate measures for thieves...they don't discriminate.

I guess I should have blamed the Wachovia Championship. Maybe thieves saw my house when the blimp panned out over the course!

I have never read the "Eye", but after reading about this story I think I will pass again when I see it on the newstand.

[monsoon]

The Greens at Birkdale Village, this is the neighborhood that directly connects to Birkdale Village, has had crime problems related to that shopping center. Some people have moved from there, they said, because of the crime issues. And this is in an area that otherwise has almost no crime relative to Charlotte. I would assume the same effect could happen at this particular Lowes since it shares many of the same characteristics.

The problem with attempting to urbanize big box retail or reinventing the mall into a TOD is these places make most of their business from people who don't live in the neighborhood. This has the effect of bringing in crime with it. It's further compounded by the fact that outsiders are not noticed making crime easier to pull off.

[atlrvr]

But Lowe's isn't open yet.

[orulz]

It could be something like this: there's a burglar prowling the construction site after hours looking for copper wire or something else that could be sold as scrap. They either don't find anything and out of desperation hit the neighborhood, or just see the neighborhood and decide to burglarize opportunistically. Who knows. In either case, hopefully the crime goes away once construction is complete.

Or it could be a complete coincidence.

[monsoon]

But Lowe's isn't open yet.

I know, but there are lots of outsiders there working on the place and they bring people who are not working on the place. If anything it's a sign of things to come.

[Charlotte_native]

Crime spikes in bad economies. Simple. The (relatively) smarter criminals will go to neighborhoods with higher incomes and better goods. There is increased property crime and burglary in many areas across the city (and in many other cities).

[monsoon]

I don't think that it can simply be explained away by a bad economy. No doubt the horrific economy brought on to us by the Bush administration along with the cancellation of dozens of programs designed to get people out of poverty, has caused crime to spike, but the anecdote about the Greens of Birkdale Village started happening during the luxury economy of the Clinton years. BV is in the middle of a fairly prosperous area that otherwise has little crime. The people there said that most of if not all of the crime was related to outsiders coming to BV.

[atlrvr]

I don't think that it can simply be explained away by a bad economy. No doubt the horrific economy brought on to us by the Bush administration along with the cancellation of dozens of programs designed to get people out of poverty, has caused crime to spike, but the anecdote about the Greens of Birkdale Village started happening during the luxury economy of the Clinton years. BV is in the middle of a fairly prosperous area that otherwise has little crime. The people there said that most of if not all of the crime was related to outsiders coming to BV.

If you're going to take this into a politcal commentary, at least be accurate. The commerical component of Birkdale Village didn't even begin construction until 2000, and they first phases weren't completed until Clinton had been out of office for almost a yaer.

Getting back on topic, I don't think anyone disagrees that commercial uses bring an increase in property crime, but the residents are asserting that criminal are now more aware of their neighborhood because of Lowe's. Maybe.

I did a CMPD GIS map search of the area for year to date, and there is definitely a concentration of crime in Olmstead Park relative to the rest of Dilworth. Perhaps, a different theory is, the neighborhood is walled, so their is little visibility to the outside, good "escape routes", and little cut through traffic due to its design, which would limit traffic from observing a robbery. Perhaps its also the designs of the houses, which have attached carports on some and the ones without have no gates separating the rear yard, so its easy to access the houses undetected.

My point is, its really a whole confluence of factors (economy included) that is likely leading to the uptick in crime in this location, but I agree with Orulz, that general mischevious curiosity may have led the crooks there.

Finally, the police in the area are nearly certain that all Dilworth crime is being committed by just a couple groups of people and its not a full on assault of the neighborhood. Given the fact that probably only 1 or 2 people are responsible for all of the Olmstead Park crime, speculating on how they selected the neighborhood is probably a shot in the dark, and for the reasons that I mentioned above, other factors are what make the neighborhood attractive in continuing to burglarize.

http://maps.cmpdweb.org/cmpdnet/map.aspx

[monsoon]

If you're going to take this into a politcal commentary, at least be accurate. The commerical component of Birkdale Village didn't even begin construction until 2000, and they first phases weren't completed until Clinton had been out of office for almost a yaer.....

The discussion of crime, its causes and solutions always have an element of politics to it.

I am well aware of of BV's construction dates. However also keep in mind the economy does not magically change on inauguration day which happened to occur in 2001 for Bush. It's taken Bush several years to completely screw things up and we will be dealing with it even after he is gone given that he submitted a budget that has almost a 1/2 trillion deficit. (not counting Iraq spending)

This kind of recklessness has contributed to crime, but the point is that I don't think it is the cause for the spike around Lowes. I still contend that so called urbanized big box retail and/or TOD appearing shopping malls are recipes for crime. These are again attempts to re-invent something that doesn't need to be re-invented. Maybe one day they will learn here.

[Charlotte_native]

I still contend that so called urbanized big box retail and/or TOD appearing shopping malls are recipes for crime. These are again attempts to re-invent something that doesn't need to be re-invented. Maybe one day they will learn here.

Why? I honestly just don't get the correlation. I can see where malt liquor stores might attract crime, or pawn shops (for ease of fencing stolen goods), but why would a Lowe's, Home Depot, or other big box retail make people come to the area to steal from nearby residents?

[monsoon]

sigh

[Justadude]

I don't know how to say this sensitively -- construction crews carry a lot of risk. When you bring in a large crew for a long-term project, situated around the corner from a residential area, regardless of the level of wealth in the neighborhood there's a pretty good chance some things are going to "disappear". The fact that the neighborhood in question is affluent and has very little crime under normal circumstances makes the bump in crime stick out more than it might in another area.

The notion that this all comes back to criminals "discovering" the neighborhood is a little silly... it's more a matter of having lots of access to the area without being questioned, and being around so often that they start to recognize the residents' daily routines.

*disclaimer: Don't jump me for implying that construction workers (and other related laborers) are untrustworthy. I know how the post above sounds and I'm not a big fan of blanket generalizations. But it doesn't help to put on blinders and pretend that it's nothing but outside factors at work.

[mshook]

The Olmsted area should start a community watch. It's surprisingly effective. Taking turns simply walking their small neighborhood makes a big difference. Less likely to burularize if the neighborhood has a lot of Sidewalk activity...

[jednc]

If you're going to take this into a politcal commentary, at least be accurate. The commerical component of Birkdale Village didn't even begin construction until 2000, and the first phases weren't completed until Clinton had been out of office for almost a year.

This is pretty much exactly correct. The movie theater was the first to open in May of 2001. The rest of the Village had a "Grand Opening" around Labor Day weekend although many had been open for several weeks at that point. Bush was in office since January and we were just a week away from 9/11.

[monsoon]

This is pretty much exactly correct. The movie theater was the first to open in May of 2001. The rest of the Village had a "Grand Opening" around Labor Day weekend although many had been open for several weeks at that point. Bush was in office since January and we were just a week away from 9/11.

We differ on this opinion then and much of Birkdale was open before the grand opening. The first Bush Budget did not go into effect until 2002. However I stand by my position that people were much better off on Labor Day 2001 than they will be on Labor Day 2008.

The point of the matter is that the residents there were experiencing crime long before the bad economy had an effect on rising crime rates. (they had been falling) And the residents there were blaming the activities taking place at BV. I made the point that we can most likely see the same change to the area around Lowes because it has many of the same elements of BV. That is a huge influx of outsiders that otherwise would not be there.

[ScottCLT]

When driving by this morning, I noticed that the permanent signs for Lowe's and The Wine Loft were up. Also, there was a temporary sign for another joint -- all I could make out when glancing over while driving was "noodles." Is this a Nothing But Noodles? Never been to one, but the menu on the website make it look like a nice lunch spot.

We've also heard that Five Guys will go in here. Any other confirmations of tenants?

[dubone]

I suppose there is some plausibility to crime risk around construction sites. The fact that property crime is up across the city, though, makes all finger pointing a bit silly.

Since the Lowe's isn't in operation, the only way for it to be responsible would be if there is something to the construction activity. But was there a blip in crime when Village of SouthEnd was built next to that?

[krazeeboi]

Any spikes in crime in Cherry? If so, I'm sure it wouldn't be considered newsworthy since the headline wouldn't be nearly as sensationalist.

[HopHead]

The Bush administration is not more responsible for increased crime than a Clinton administration or vice-versa. It's not like they are funding programs for these guys. At the end of the day, thugs are going to be thugs. They are going to break into homes and steal things no matter who is in office. You can't change that mentality unless you throw them in jail. If there's any blame to be spread, it's to the Charlotte Police Dept for not deterring this in the first place. Hopefully that will change with Monroe. And as far as Labor day goes, yea we may have been in better position in 2001 than 2008... But on September 12, 2008 we will be in much better position than September 12, 2001.

[Conformity]

I suppose there is some plausibility to crime risk around construction sites. The fact that property crime is up across the city, though, makes all finger pointing a bit silly.

Since the Lowe's isn't in operation, the only way for it to be responsible would be if there is something to the construction activity. But was there a blip in crime when Village of SouthEnd was built next to that?

Ahhhh....hard core logic....that's refreshing.

When driving by this morning, I noticed that the permanent signs for Lowe's and The Wine Loft were up. Also, there was a temporary sign for another joint -- all I could make out when glancing over while driving was "noodles." Is this a Nothing But Noodles? Never been to one, but the menu on the website make it look like a nice lunch spot.

We've also heard that Five Guys will go in here. Any other confirmations of tenants?

Noodles and Company....different outfit.

Wine Loft

5 Guys Burgers and Fries

[monsoon]

....You can't change that mentality unless you throw them in jail. If there's any blame to be spread, it's to the Charlotte Police Dept for not deterring this in the first place. Hopefully that will change with Monroe......

1 in 4 humans on the planet earth who are locked up are locked up in the United States prisons, yet our crime rate by far is the worst in the industrialized world. And despite locking up ever more people, and the county council is planning to build another jail the crime rate is still rising. The results speak for themselves. I disagree that a punishment only society is the answer to lower crime. Crime was falling during the Clinton years because 1st time offenders and victim less crime offenders where offered a way out and many found that way. Now those programs are gone and crime is rising. For example the GOP congress eliminated financial educational aid for a convicted criminal which is completely insane as if you take away a person's way to re-join society then you are guaranteed more crime. I understand the mentality behind this but this is why the USA is now known as a punishment society.

In the United States the doling out of punishment for crime is not done by the police as their only job is to charge people with crimes and detain them for punishment until the court system can take over. It's the district attorney's job to decide which charges will be dropped or not and then argue these charges in the court. Many people don't realize this and assume this is what the police do. It isn't. And in the same token as can be seen here in Charlotte the remedy for crime isn't just "lock them up".

In regards to Lowes, I think the building of big box retail in what should be developed as a dense urban area is not a good idea, but there is an entire generation of people now in the United States that do not have experience with anything else. So it's natural I guess they would want to bring the things of their suburban upbringings into the city with them. Unfortunately the business models that created these places in the first place don't work well in these kind of environments so there are going to be unintended consequences. One of them it seems is a spike in crime and other annoying things that will come with a place that that has an overwhelming amount of sales and movement of materials and people. The other thing it will do of course is to keep small independent shops from coming in, what you want to see in a city, because they can't compete on Lowes terms.