Hampton Roads Transportation

[rusthebuss]

People say that they should have voted for that tax but they found loop holes that the all the money would not have stayed in the Hampton Roads area and it was exploited and the people shot it down.

[vdogg]

Here is some more info i had stored on my computer. I'm pretty sure this is availiable publicly elsewhere, and there is a lot of info on this project on our website (VDOT's website) which is completely accessible to the public. Quite frankly, news reports of an '07 start are inaccurate. It's gonna be a long time before we see anything done on this project.

"The new tunnel will comprise three tubes with two lanes each. The three tubes would be in a single sunken tunnel element. Including the existing two two-lane MMMBT tubes (which are also in a single sunken tunnel element), the entire facility will have five tubes, each with two lanes. Four tubes will be for general-purpose lanes, and one tube will be multi-modal, for HOV/busway/rail transit. The I-664 South Island will be expanded to make room for the new tunnel portals, and the I-664 North Island (actually a peninsula) at the tip of Newport News will also be expanded to make room for the new tunnel portals. The expanded MMMBT will surpass the Fort McHenry Tunnel (which has eight lanes in four separate tubes) in Baltimore as the widest underwater highway tunnel in the world. The two-lane multi-modal roadway will run from Newport News, through the tunnel complex, then onto the Norfolk spur, into Norfolk. The Elizabeth River Uptown Crossing will be a tunnel, with the west portal on a manmade island, and the east portal in Norfolk about 500 feet from the shoreline.

Again, there will be two underwater tunnels constructed on this bridge-tunnel complex, each with the three tube design depicted below -- a 4,800-foot-long tunnel facility paralleling and conjoining the existing I-664 twin-tube 4-lane tunnel, and a 5,000-foot-long new tunnel facility across the mouth of the Elizabeth River."

[rusthebuss]

I really hope this goes through i guess i would pay for a toll if it got me to work faster. Just in my mind tolls slow the traffic instead of help it.

[okinawatyphoon]

Thanks for the renderings vdogg. I just wish they would fill the new tunnels with trains instead of cars. It would solve so much IMO....

[vdogg]

Thanks for the renderings vdogg.  I just wish they would fill the new tunnels with trains instead of cars. It would solve so much IMO....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you read the above post again they said one of the tunnels will be dedicated to rail/hov.

[vdogg]

Four tubes will be for general-purpose lanes, and one tube will be multi-modal, for HOV/busway/rail transit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[rusthebuss]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That will help us so much if they do get mass transit across through that tube. They should have one lane for the train, if they could time it right and one for the bus to get them off the regular lanes to free up space on the roads

[vdogg]

That will help us so much if they do get mass transit across through that tube. They should have one lane for the train, if they could time it right and one for the bus to get them off the regular lanes to free up space on the roads

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes....absolutely. I'm really excited about this project and i'm crossing my fingers that some sort of miracle happens and the process is sped up by about 10 years.

[okinawatyphoon]

If you read the above post again they said one of the tunnels will be dedicated to rail/hov.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

oooh...didn't see that..haha. thats great news then!

[willy]

2010 start is what i've been told with about a 5 year construction period (more likely 5-10) which would bring us to about 2015.

Wow, can you imagine how bad our traffic will be by then?

[rusthebuss]

It all depends on how they bring in more jobs to the area. There has to be a reason for the people to come here.

[Former Resident of HR]

There was an article in the pilot today about the idea of HOT lanes on the beltway. What do you think of that for this area? (This is also referred to in the general VA topics section).

I am all for it. There seems to be this anti-HOT sentiment but what is the problem? Why not build the third crossing and charge $3-7 depending on traffic? I am sure that when you think about an extra hour in traffic versus an extra $7 the choice will be easy.

Finally, I sincerely hope that they do not dedicate one whole tube to rail. Considering Amtrak's current situation I doubt that will happen anyway, but still. High speed rail across the US? What a total watse/joke. High speed rail for this area? Even more of a joke. The money that would be wasted on that should be focused on improving the roadways and airports.

The gov't needs to wise up, sell off Amtrak and let it kill off service to areas that don't need it anyway (like us). If they concentrated on areas that actually use rail (NE corridor) we would have a world class rail system in the US...

[vdogg]

64 interchange delays

I-64: WHAT'S GOING ON?

How a string of problems pulled the project over budget and past deadline

1. Money: Mistakes opened flow of tax dollars

Despite delays, early-completion bonus still in sight

Taxpayers, not designer, pay for flaws

May 1, 2005

VDOT foot-dragging costs more than money

May 1, 2005

Failure to work together put project in peril

May 1, 2005

Bad contract, bad management doomed project

May 1, 2005

Quality was cut on key bridge

May 1, 2005

Flaming tempers, e-mails consume ramp

May 1, 2005

Contractor and VDOT are off on new footing

May 1, 2005

Sign snafu still costing taxpayers millions of dollars

May 1, 2005

ROAD MAP TO CHAOS

Significant dates for the Interstate 64 project:

May 1997: The state approves $3.5 million for preliminary engineering on the project.

May 31, 2001: The Virginia Department of Transportation and E.V. Williams Inc. sign the final contract for the project.

June 14: E.V. Williams President Tom Partridge pens a letter to VDOT, complaining that the agency is hindering progress on the project.

Jan. 10, 2002: The first official delay pushes the project 70 days behind schedule, with a completion date of July 26, 2004.

Feb. 16: The Magruder Boulevard bridge is closed to all traffic.

March 4: E.V. Williams submits a solution to drainage problems.

August 25, 2003: With drainage problems still unresolved, Philip Shucet publicly chastises VDOT's managers. He warns SITE-Blauvelt that the state will seek damages because of problems caused by design errors.

Jan. 22, 2004: Shucet reassigns the head of the Hampton Roads district after high-profile mishaps.

April 24: The Magruder bridge is opened to traffic heading for Todds Lane without interstate access.

Nov. 1: The Magruder ramp remains closed after another deadline, triggering a blow-up between VDOT and E.V. Williams.

March 3, 2005: VDOT and E.V. Williams announce a new completion date and a series of milestones to track progress.

The contractor rebuilding the Mercury Boulevard interchange on Interstate 64 could receive a $504,000 early-completion bonus despite finishing the project more than two years later than initially scheduled.

That bonus would be on top of millions of dollars contractor E.V. Williams Inc. has already received as a result of misjudgments, mistakes and management failures by state officials and the people it hired to plan and execute the 2.7-mile-long project since it began in 2001.

The original completion date, May 17, 2004, has been pushed to Aug. 1, 2006. The project includes building seven bridges and widening the highway from three lanes to five in each direction.....

[urbanvb]

Big news!

VIRGINIA BEACH

[urbanvb]

^ Personally, I am glad this is coming. I look forward to taking the bus from Pembroke to say Lynnhaven Mall. Just not having to drive would be nice. I am really hoping though that the acqusition of the railroad property goes quickly so commute times will be cut. But the buses will get to drive in the HOV lanes on the interstate (which are already underutilized) so hopefully there won't be a problem with buses getting caught in traffic. I would imagine though peak times are going to be difficult on the expressway so again Va Beach, hurry up and buy this property!

[rusthebuss]

I really hope VaBeach uses that right of way(tracks) for light rail and not the buses. It would be great for both cities to connect them together with a light rail between tc and dt norfolk.

Edited May 5, 2005 by rusthebuss

[okinawatyphoon]

I really hope VaBeach uses that right of way(tracks) for light rail and not the buses. It would be great for both cities to connect them together with a light rail between tc and dt norfolk.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad Va Beach shot down that idea years ago. Who knows what could have happened if they would have accepted. Just imagine...light rail between DT and TC...just amazing!

[vdogg]

just because a suburbs has the title of a city doesn't mean its an "city". I really think two downtowns are really stupid especially the fact the stupid city council doesn't want to connect with mass transit between dt norfolk. Just another way they will choke the area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a matter of fact, if you read the article on the BRT project in this forum Va. Beach specifically states that they are going to extend the BRT dedicated right of way all the way down the Norfolk southern line to the start of Norfolks LRT. This would in effect connect the two citys mass transit systems and is a step in the right direction IMO.

On a side note i believe that Va. Beach really stretches beyond the traditional definition of a suburb as well. While Va. Beach started as pure "suburb" the overall character of the city has been gradually shifting more urban.

[rusthebuss]

Why not work with Norfolk, they have been planning this for years. Light rail would be the best bet. They didn't think it up so they don't want to do it. It the fact that Vabeach wants to do things different and their way or they don't want to do it at all.They are notorious for this type of attitude!!!

Edited May 9, 2005 by rusthebuss

[urbanvb]

Why not work with Norfolk, they have been planning this for years. Light rail would be the best bet. They didn't think it up so they don't want to do it. It the fact that Vabeach wants to do things different and there way or they don't want to do it at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree VB is a city resistant to change but in recent years I think that mentality is changing. They realize if they are to compete with the Raleighs and Charlottes they have to be more progressive in their thoughts and attitudes. I do believe rail will eventually make it to the beach - better sooner than later for sure.

[vdogg]

Why not work with Norfolk, they have been planning this for years. Light rail would be the best bet. They didn't think it up so they don't want to do it. It the fact that Vabeach wants to do things different and there way or they don't want to do it at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this has more to do with the much reduced cost of BRT than anything else along with the difficulty of running LRT to strategic points along the oceanfront. Not to mention BRT can be done much faster, without federal approval, and will in fact probably be finished before Norfolks LRT even starts. The fact that they want to connect BRT to Norfolks LRT means that Norfolk stands a much higher chance of winning approval for that project. Also heres an excerpt form the article and a link.

"Long-range plans include extending a line west along the Norfolk Southern railroad right-of-way and connecting with Norfolk

[rusthebuss]

I think they would award it to us if the cities actually went in together as a whole instead of seprerate cities competing for the federal money. This is where the "7 cities" come and screw us again.

[rusthebuss]

Maybe if we went in as Hampton Roads we might actually get something done

[urbanvb]

We must all remember too that VB is a YOUNG city - only 40 years old! Before that this was a smallish tourist town. Fast forward to today we are a pretty larger city of 440k strong and growing more urban. We have come a long way in a short amount of time. Fast forward another 20 years and I can see this to be a great place to live!

Edited May 9, 2005 by guynvb

[vdogg]

We must all remember too that VB is a YOUNG city - only 40 years old! Before that this was a smallish tourist town. Fast forward to today we are a pretty larger city of 440k strong and growing more urban. We have come a long way in a short amount of time. Fast forward another 20 years and I can see this to be a great place to live!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, and theres nothing to say that BRT won't actually be better. Much larger cities including Atlanta are now starting to go that route so there must be some benefit over LRT that caused them to make that decision. I was iffy about BRT myself until i saw the concepts for it. It's really attractive and i think it will actually accent the character of our city.