Virginia Beach Development

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, metalman said:

What is the 15 story building you were referring to?   I don’t remember hearing anything about that except for a possibility of that height in Midtown 2 and whatever the Hampton Inn might be.

There is an article earlier in this thread that mentions them as part of the future of Pembroke. Article came out in spring.

[vdogg]

2 hours ago, metalman said:

What is the 15 story building you were referring to?   I don’t remember hearing anything about that except for a possibility of that height in Midtown 2 and whatever the Hampton Inn might be.

https://www.pilotonline.com/business/consumer/article_8ebf5c6a-4501-11e9-a2cd-6be2cc6d44dd.html

Ramsay Smith, president and principal broker with Pembroke Commercial Realty, is familiar with the time it takes to draw in potential tenants and said spaces at Pembroke Mall haven't remained vacant for a lack of effort.

He said he has worked for years on deals with retailers, including bowling alleys and Homegoods, just for them to fall through because business terms couldn't be settled. Pembroke's draw is its anchors and higher-end retailers, including Target, Kohl's, REI and Nordstrom Rack.

It took seven years to seal a deal with Target, which included selling nine acres to the retailer. Now, Smith is focused on indoor renovations to convert smaller spaces into larger "junior" anchor stores at the family-owned mall and, eventually, add height with additions that could stack up to 15 stories tall. "I think you'll see higher-rise development at the mall."

[baobabs727]

So there is an article in today's Virginian Pilot that I would not even post because it is so unfocused and poorly  written...and head scratchingly NIMBY-fied that I just can't.  Suffice it to say that it would appear as if the movement to keep every square inch of undeveloped Virginia Beach, undeveloped,...at all costs... has caught fire with the new members of Council, the City staff and whoever else I don't know. With the visionary can-do man, Bruce Thompson, relegated to gingerly sitting on the sidelines...hoping and praying...and Bruce Smith having no comment.  

Beam me up!

Edited September 14, 2019 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

33 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

So there is an article in today's Virginian Pilot that I would not even post because it is so unfocused and poorly  written...and head scratchingly NIMBY-fied that I just can't.  Suffice it to say that it would appear as if the movement to keep every square inch of undeveloped Virginia Beach, undeveloped,...at all costs... has caught fire with the new members of Council, the City staff and whoever else I don't know. With the visionary can-do man, Bruce Thompson, relegated to gingerly sitting on the sidelines...hoping and praying...and Bruce Smith having no comment.  

Beam me up!

I assume you’re talking about the  Rudee Loop article. Honestly, I don’t think making that area a park is a bad idea. We’ve walled off the oceanfront from view, and Rudee Loop is literally the last unobstructed view corridor that exist, so in this instance I understand the desire to preserve. Better planning would have limited development to the West side of Atlantic, but here we are, and it’s going to take a long time to unravel poor planning decisions. I’m willing to give up the loop if it means the opening of opportunities for development elsewhere along the strip.

[baobabs727]

What "opening up?"  Are you suggesting there's some quid pro quo going on here or land development rights exchange?  I'm not aware of either. 

Rudee Loop has been eyed and ripe for development for decades.  That is the major reason why the City acquired all that land from Bruce Thompson 20+ years ago. Among other parcels. It is one of the most valuable pieces of property left undeveloped along the entire mid-atlantic seaboard and southward. The highest and best use of the property is certainly not a park.  At least not at 100% utilization as such. I mean, love parks as much as the next man or woman, but why do we have to reserve 100%?  We're talking about huge acreage on the water. 

What about the other properties down there that are privately held? Should VB buy them out too so we have zero commercial entities down there? 

Surely a reasonable compromise can be struck here so as to preserve  public access to the entire property, including any commercially developed portion,  plus maintain acres of open space...whilst adding sigificantly to the tax base and ensuring that this jewel of a property is at least partially developed to its fullest, best and highest use/potential. 

As to  righting past wrongs via development policy/planning here, I'm not sure two wrongs make a right. Seems like a vast overreaction to me to make it 100% park,  and I'm not even sure it "corrects" anything.  If there is really anything to be corrected. 

[vdogg]

I think constructing hotels on the east side of Atlantic was a mistake. It disconnects you from the beach. There are spectacular views once you get past that wall that we've erected. That's a natural asset that we should capitalize on. What I'm thinking of is more akin to how the beaches look in California or South Beach. It's wonderful to be able to drive the entire strip and get an uninterrupted view of the sunset for example. That can be a big draw for people/traffic. There are several things coming down the pike on the North end of Atlantic that are working through planning right now (that gas station across from the Hilton is disappearing). Bruce also won his battle to have the end of Atlantic turned in to a Cul de Sac (still not sold on that one).  The Dome site is also, FINALLY, moving through planning. We've had several development wins recently, If we lose Rudee Loop to a park, I just don't feel that it will be a catastrophe. If done right, it might actually be a draw.

[urbanlife]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:25 PM, vdogg said:

I assume you’re talking about the  Rudee Loop article. Honestly, I don’t think making that area a park is a bad idea. We’ve walled off the oceanfront from view, and Rudee Loop is literally the last unobstructed view corridor that exist, so in this instance I understand the desire to preserve. Better planning would have limited development to the West side of Atlantic, but here we are, and it’s going to take a long time to unravel poor planning decisions. I’m willing to give up the loop if it means the opening of opportunities for development elsewhere along the strip.

I somewhat disagree with this statement, keeping development west of Atlantic would have opened up to the possibility of protecting the dunes that were probably once there, which would have been a great thing to have preserved today, but allowing development on the east side of Atlantic doesn't take away any views. Now the reason why I say this is because you are just looking at streets that motorists use, well lets consider the boardwalk a street that pedestrians can use. That would mean there is an unobstructed view for pedestrians walking along the boardwalk because there are no buildings built on the eastside of the boardwalk.

[Virginia City]

I think it's better the way it is. For the driving, drivers need to focus on the road not the view because there are too many people walking around to be driving while taking in the sights. For the hotel guests, the beach is for them. It's better that they can walk out of there hotel and not worry about walking across a busy road. The restaurants that are along the bottom floor of the hotel are nicer/fancier because they have views of the beach and not a street front. Now if they could build large hotels along the opposite side of the road as well creating a corridor of hotels that would be cool. Especially if they could somehow build the hotels on the west side of Atlantic taller so some floors do get views over the other hotels.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Virginia City

[urbanlife]

9 hours ago, Virginia City said:

I think it's better the way it is. For the driving, drivers need to focus on the road not the view because there are too many people walking around to be driving while taking in the sights. For the hotel guests, the beach is for them. It's better that they can walk out of there hotel and not worry about walking across a busy road. The restaurants that are along the bottom floor of the hotel are nicer/fancier because they have views of the beach and not a street front. Now if they could build large hotels along the opposite side of the road as well creating a corridor of hotels that would be cool. Especially if they could somehow build the hotels on the west side of Atlantic taller so some floors do get views over the other hotels.

That would have been interesting if the beach had a height regulation along the east side of Atlantic, with a higher height limit on the west side of Atlantic. It would have created an interesting cascade of hotels from the beach. The beach might have also gotten hotels that stretched from the east side to the west side through skybridges and such. 

[BFG]

10 hours ago, Virginia City said:

I think it's better the way it is. For the driving, drivers need to focus on the road not the view because there are too many people walking around to be driving while taking in the sights. For the hotel guests, the beach is for them. It's better that they can walk out of there hotel and not worry about walking across a busy road. The restaurants that are along the bottom floor of the hotel are nicer/fancier because they have views of the beach and not a street front. Now if they could build large hotels along the opposite side of the road as well creating a corridor of hotels that would be cool. Especially if they could somehow build the hotels on the west side of Atlantic taller so some floors do get views over the other hotels.

This is the one thing that bugs me the most about the strip. Not only is the architecture bland, but Atlantic is just so one-sided. With tourism numbers being at their highest in a while - close to 20M last year - I think it's time to start developing the other side of Atlantic, but without tearing down the restaurants and shops. The corridor near the Hilton and Catch 31 is the right idea, looking forward.

Maybe the Dome site will become the start of more high-rise developments. 

[baobabs727]

On 9/14/2019 at 7:22 AM, vdogg said:

I think constructing hotels on the east side of Atlantic was a mistake. It disconnects you from the beach. There are spectacular views once you get past that wall that we've erected. That's a natural asset that we should capitalize on. What I'm thinking of is more akin to how the beaches look in California or South Beach. It's wonderful to be able to drive the entire strip and get an uninterrupted view of the sunset for example. That can be a big draw for people/traffic. There are several things coming down the pike on the North end of Atlantic that are working through planning right now (that gas station across from the Hilton is disappearing). Bruce also won his battle to have the end of Atlantic turned in to a Cul de Sac (still not sold on that one).  The Dome site is also, FINALLY, moving through planning. We've had several development wins recently, If we lose Rudee Loop to a park, I just don't feel that it will be a catastrophe. If done right, it might actually be a draw.

OK, yes I understand what you were saying. I have traveled and have seen a lot of different beach town layouts, as well. But I do believe that we have the greatest concrete boardwalk on the East Coast to serve as our window on the Atlantic. It is clean, wide, long and thankfully unmolested by tourist traps and trinket hawkers.  Plus, the hotel guests can walk right out onto the beach and not have to cross a busy street.  

So now of course we wouldn't want to over-develop the western side of Atlantic with high-rises because then we'd be driving down an outdoor hallway of sorts.  Any new developments on that side should be clustered every three to five  blocks and reach westward a few blocks as well so as not to give that wall-like impression on that side of Atlantic  

I, too, am happy with what seems to be the potential for the new developments which you mention, but they are not in our back pocket just yet. So I will take whatever we can get--wherever we can get it--and certainly Rudee is the crown jewel. I just think a compromise is in order down there. 

 

[HRVA]

On 7/11/2019 at 12:36 PM, 23320 said:

A preliminary site plan has been filed for a Homewood Suites at 3104 Atlantic Avenue, to the immediate north of the gas station. It is being developed by Harmony Hospitality. Seems like big changes are coming to this block. 

The site plan for this development has been filed. Only details are Homewood Suites & retail at this point. It does appear to be separate from the gas station retail redevelopment. 

A couple preliminary plans have also been filed for apartment projects near Town Center. One is adjacent to Willis Furniture (assuming to the east next to the library) and the other by Mount Trashmore on South Blvd where the very out of place Security Storage & Van warehouse is located. 

[HRVA]

A couple of articles about closures that will likely lead to redevelopment. 

Belvedere Coffee Shop closes for season; it’s future uncertain at the Virginia Beach Oceanfront

Once-notorious Virginia Beach mainstay, the Raven, will close after 50 years

Both are owned (or about to be owned) by Suburban Capital, who recently sold their Happy Boxes self storage chain to focus on their hospitality business. 

[urbanlife]

On 10/2/2019 at 11:34 AM, 23320 said:

A couple of articles about closures that will likely lead to redevelopment. 

Belvedere Coffee Shop closes for season; it’s future uncertain at the Virginia Beach Oceanfront

Once-notorious Virginia Beach mainstay, the Raven, will close after 50 years

Both are owned (or about to be owned) by Suburban Capital, who recently sold their Happy Boxes self storage chain to focus on their hospitality business. 

Wow, sad to hear the Raven is closing, I definitely have some memories with that place growing up. The beach is losing a major fixture. 

[archie12]

A new survey about comprehensive plan for vb to take part in: https://www.publicinput.com/VBCompPlan

 

[HRVA]

Forbes is closing their 31st St location by the end of the month to make way for demolition. They expect to reopen with the Homewood Suites/retail development in 2021. 

[HRVA]

Forbes Candies’ oldest store is closed. It will be torn down to make room for hotel in Virginia Beach. - Virginian Pilot

The article mainly focuses on the temporary closure of the store but does state the hotel will be 142-rooms and shares the following rendering. 

[BFG]

I kinda like it, although I don't think the retail out front should be as prominent. Hopefully they don't change it to something all brick. Regardless, I'm happy to see Atlantic Ave. develop a more modern look.

[HRVA]

 

[BFG]

As much as I like the high-rise development coming, I admit I will miss older buildings like this. The Belvedere was one of my favorite motels from the strip. Anyone know what's going in its place?

[HRVA]

Empty buildings at Virginia Beach Oceanfront will become a brewery, store and restaurant -VP

“This week, 17th Street Properties LLC began renovating the 19,000-square-foot space to turn it into a shopping center with a brewery, a national retailer and a restaurant. Some of the businesses could open by summer, Horan said.”

This is the redevelopment behind 17th St Surf Shop. The article states American Brew will occupy one of the spaces. 

[vdogg]

Happy that the property is being redeveloped, but man that rendering can’t get anymore bland. You’d think for something in the ViBe creative district they would have tried to design something a bit more....creative.

[HRVA]

Plan to redevelop area near Thalia Elementary met with resistance - WVEC

Complete redevelopment of Willis Furniture site - surprised since they rebuilt the smaller space they’re in now a couple of years ago.  First floor is retail/parking with 4 floors of apartments above.  Of course there are the (literal) NIMBYs but I suspect the townhomes will be 3 stories and there’s a pretty significant gap provided by the parking lot and tree cover along the property line. It won’t impact them nearly as much as they think it will. Article states it will go before planning in January.

[CrazyPy]

While I do like the plan, I can see where some of the opposition comes from. This will dramatically increase traffic at the light at Thalia and VB which already isn't great. Other than that, they really don't have much to really complain about other than their elementary will be more in line with other schools in VB when it comes to class size. 

[vdogg]

Horrible, unacceptable, building placement. Both buildings need to be moved closer to the road with parking in the back. There's zero reason for this not to front the main road, I don't understand the misuse of this property in such a fashion. A small parking garage and some additional retail would do wonders for that piece of land. I actually hope this doesn't go through, because we can do much better than that.