Triangle road & traffic thread

[RaleighRob]

Yesterday's article about a daycare near the proposed Triangle Parkway was silly as well. It is the equivalent of building a house next to a proposed airport, then complaining about the planes when the airport is built. If roads can't be built near day care centers or schools, the new construction part of DOT might as well close up right now.

Some people are nuts. This quote from the article says it all: "The pathway for the Triangle Parkway was reserved in 1957" before RTP was built, Teer said in an interview. "They knew it was there when they built that day-care center in the 1980s."

[ChiefJoJo]

Some people are nuts. This quote from the article says it all: "The pathway for the Triangle Parkway was reserved in 1957" before RTP was built, Teer said in an interview. "They knew it was there when they built that day-care center in the 1980s."

Actually the daycare center was built just a few years ago along with the EPA RTP campus. I think the EPA has some explaining to do to those parents.

[DPK]

[rant]

Screw 'em. I may get hated for this, but these people were out for money when they built there. They figured the could later cry and complain to get something later on, knowing well what was going to happen in the future. Figuring who could say no to a daycare center (think of the children!)?

I dunno, it all just aggravates me.

[/rant]

[ncwebguy]

I was wondering where in the Triangle Parkway corridor is a daycare, but this makes sense. The EPA daycare is *not* open to the general public. It is on their campus, which requires a badge to get past the guard station. It was under construction when I started my current job, so the building is not more than three or so years old. I occasionally go to a building across the parking lot.

This "you can't build a road here -- think of the children" is poor planning on the EPA's part. The EPA didn't have a problem putting the day care near one of the largest surface parking lots on campus. They also have not built into the parkway's right of way, so they knew it would be built some day.

If this works, what is to stop people from building day cares near the rest of the 540 corridor, east End connector, or any other future road project?

As for 540, it looks like the NC 54 and NC 55 sections will open together in June. I know this will be less confusing, but opening the eastern section to 64 without offering an alternative to the 40/540 intersection bottlenecks continues to cause long backups.

It is good to see that the end is near! Though the end of the "free" 540 will only lead to the beginning of the tolled southern expressway.

[citiboi27610]

I don't understand the complaining but if there is complaining it should be to the ones in charge of planning the EPA campus. But even then I don't think it is warranted, because from what I can gather from observation, the Triangle Parkway won't have as much traffic as I-40 or even Hwy 55 through RTP at lunch time the whole time the kids will be in the daycare. I don't seeing it have such terrible effects.

[ChiefJoJo]

Some coverage of the NC Spin forum: Former Transp Secretary says NC needs a better funding formula.

[Tayfromcarolina]

They really do need a better funding formula. That way they would not be tempted with the whole "Toll Road" idea. One reason I don't like to travel to the northern states are those toll roads. It's just so troublesome. Surely we are not to that point where we need tolls. With all the newcomers here there has to be a better way to gain some funds, maybe built into the system.

[citiboi27610]

That way they would not be tempted with the whole "Toll Road" idea.

What's so wrong with toll roads. Other than raising funds for roads, they change behaviors of drivers. If we had to pay to drive on I-540 from the get go, maybe the city wouldn't have spread so far. Maybe, we could see the benefits of public transport while not simply ceasing to build roads. Its a way to make drivers accountable. If it were $2 to go through a toll on I-540 from Knightdale to RTP and $1 on a dependable train (that goes faster than the traffic). One might seriously consider taking the train instead. Just a thought.

[ChiefJoJo]

Surprisingly, the state is considering sharing in the burden for the I-40 debacle.

State House leaders want to take the money out of DOT's hide, and they don't want to penalize the Triangle.

The House budget proposal released Monday would pay the repair bill with money subtracted from DOT's statewide administrative budgets, which fund all divisions of the department.

"Division Five was not the responsible party for that," Rep. Nelson Cole, a Reidsville Democrat who chairs the House transportation appropriations subcommittee, said Tuesday. "So the only thing we've got as a recourse is to look at the entire department. This would not adversely affect Division Five or any other divisions."

ALso, on the budget front... despite a big surplus, there still isn't enough for our transportation budget. Tell us something we don't already know.

[pack-man]

its stupid to just penalize division 5. this mistake should be spread across the board.

[ChiefJoJo]

I didn't realize this, but CAMPO is voting on the I-540 tolling issue today.

Apex has rejected the toll road plan (WRAL video).

I love this quote: "we deserve it anyway." No sir, you don't deserve it. The road is not entitled to you, and if CAMPO does not support it, you'll be sitting in traffic for about 30 years.

I understand the issue, but if CAMPO votes no, they are making a huge mistake.

[RaleighRob]

^LOL...you know, I've always thought alot of those western wake suburbanites, particularly the transplants, seem to have a big ego and feelings of entitlement. (This has been recently seen in the school debates.) I fell out of my chair laughing when I read that part.

They just don't seem to get it: there is NO money to build any new parts of 540. DOT cannot do it, therefore the Turnpike Authority can. If you don't want to pay the tolls, don't drive it. Simple as that. I mean, afterall, if it's not built then you won't be driving it anyways.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[DPK]

Jones even won a smattering of applause by declaring that the toll "is another tax."

How is paying for something to use it a tax? That's like saying, "I don't want to pay my dentist to do my dental work." and then expect him to not pull the wrong tooth. Bad example perhaps, but I think you get what I'm saying.

[Jones_]

and just for the record I was not the 'jones' mentioned

Wow what a great perk for moving into your new western wake house.....buy here....free interstate included!! Already paid for by downtown residents who have been here their entire lives!!!

[architect77]

Orange County, CA has been steadily building an entire network of toll highways as an alternative to the overwhelmed interstates. (the I-5, I-405 interchange saw over 500,000 vehicles per day back in 1998)

In return for your five bucks or so, you are almost guaranteed a quick ride. I remember when I lived there in the late 90's that the toll rate varied all day depending on road conditions. Digital overhead signs displayed the amount as you approached the entrance to the tollway so you could decide if it was worth the cost. I don't know for sure, but I always surmised that by fluctuating the amount, they could dissuade enough people from using the toll road to keep traffic moving at posted speed limits for those who did pay. I think that's brilliant.

I read today that the bridges and tunnels into Manhattan will eventually go cashless, which is a great idea. For vehicles without EZ-Pass, a bill will be mailed to the car's owner as per the license plate number. Then the toll booths can be demolished, and traffic doesn't even have to slow down, like in Atlanta on GA400 where you can fly through the "cruise lanes".

[ChiefJoJo]

Orange County, CA has been steadily building an entire network of toll highways as an alternative to the overwhelmed interstates. (the I-5, I-405 interchange saw over 500,000 vehicles per day back in 1998)

In return for your five bucks or so, you are almost guaranteed a quick ride. I remember when I lived there in the late 90's that the toll rate varied all day depending on road conditions. Digital overhead signs displayed the amount as you approached the entrance to the tollway so you could decide if it was worth the cost. I don't know for sure, but I always surmised that by fluctuating the amount, they could dissuade enough people from using the toll road to keep traffic moving at posted speed limits for those who did pay. I think that's brilliant.

I read today that the bridges and tunnels into Manhattan will eventually go cashless, which is a great idea. For vehicles without EZ-Pass, a bill will be mailed to the car's owner as per the license plate number. Then the toll booths can be demolished, and traffic doesn't even have to slow down, like in Atlanta on GA400 where you can fly through the "cruise lanes".

That scenario is called congestion pricing, and it is something you will see in the future, as it becomes infeasible to widen roads... the idea is to find better ways to manage the capacity you have, and potentially infuse some cash to fund the improvements.

FYI, CAMPO approves the toll road, and interestingly, Apex is the only no vote. Smart move.

"They can ride the toll road and pay tolls if they want to, or else they can ride N.C. 55 and have less traffic than they would otherwise have," Meeker said.

He makes a good point that should not be lost on those who don't choose to pay.

FYI, this isn't the final step, as the General Assembly must approve the $millions in"gap" funding which would pay the difference that the tolls would not cover.

[pack-man]

This looks like it is getting to be a hot issue around here...again. I agree that a toll needs to be implemented somewhere in the triangle to increase funding levels to build highways that will solve congestion problems around here. However, the question still remains: where does all the tax revenue go? This will continue to be a problem that persists.

There are plenty of traffic headaches around here that need to be dealt with ie. I-40 between Harrison and Crossroads. We know that this bottleneck creates the most annoying of traffic congestions around here, yet there is no money to widen I-40. This to me is an embarrassment to what the NCDOT is doing with their priorities. This quick fix needs to be on the top of the list to be completed.

Tolling might help speed up the building of I-540, but that isn't going to solve much of the traffic issues in this area. There is only so much a loop does. More attention needs to be placed on the existing arterials into and out of DT areas. Very happy to see US 1-64 project completed, will help tremendously.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

This looks like it is getting to be a hot issue around here...again. I agree that a toll needs to be implemented somewhere in the triangle to increase funding levels to build highways that will solve congestion problems around here. However, the question still remains: where does all the tax revenue go? This will continue to be a problem that persists.

If I understand our gax taxes correctly, a lot of our local counties/Triangle money goes to more rural areas. As dictated by laws that the Gen. Assembly won't change because it benifits there counties more. I believe that these laws were probably set up when most of NC was rural? Also, the NC Gen Assem. doesn't want to give the urban counties the ability to raise taxes either. Again, they think it takes away there control?

How do we fix this very large problem?

I think that everyone agrees that we/Triangle needs more money for schools/roads/transit needs!

[pack-man]

this is only going to continue to be a big problem if it isn't solved soon. the whole toll road is kind of a reality check of how mismanaged the state is when it comes to transportation needs. i weep for the future...

[DanRNC]

You would think the state would be smart enough to stick tolls on I-77, I-85, and I-95 (SC/VA) borders to tax folks primarily out-of-state to pay for our roads. It would also generate more money than a local toll road.

[DPK]

You would think the state would be smart enough to stick tolls on I-77, I-85, and I-95 (SC/VA) borders to tax folks primarily out-of-state to pay for our roads. It would also generate more money than a local toll road.

You can't make an existing road a toll road.

Now that being said, let's just build a new I-95 parallel to the existing and then demolish the old stretch. The new one can be one huge toll road.

[DanRNC]

^Gotcha. Too bad for that.

[CHGuy]

Now that being said, let's just build a new I-95 parallel to the existing and then demolish the old stretch. The new one can be one huge toll road.

I think that is close to what the state has proposed. They would build a new set of lanes that would be one side of the highway and a toll road and the existing road would be the other side of the highway and not a toll road. You would therefore only pay a toll going in one direction. I guess that they would widen the exist lanes so that you would have 4 lanes together.

[Transplant]

You can't make an existing road a toll road.

I say, change the law, and toll I-95. Going up north on 95 costs me around $15. I'd like to see vehicles driving through picking up some of the tab. (yes gas tax pays for some, but not much).

[pack-man]

I-95 needs to be replaced anyways. NC should do what NJ did and build a turnpike along I-95 and toll it. By law, leave the old section of I-95 crumbling and deteriorating for the cheapskates. Eventually, everyone will avoid the old section and NC will make some solid cash from non-residents.