Triangle Regional Transit

[orulz]

I saw the PART bus today in Chapel Hill. The bus makes two daily round trips, starting in Winston-Salem and ending up at Duke by way of UNC. Usually it's a little shuttle bus sort of deal but for the first time that I can remember, today it was a full-sized transit bus. Maybe their shuttle buses are in the shop or something, but then again maybe there's enough ridership now to warrant a regular bus. The windows were too darkly tinted to tell how many people were aboard.

I know at least one person who works at UNC hospital (out of, oh, six or seven at the hospital that I know altogether) who drives in from Greensboro every day.

I see several PART vanpools around Chapel Hill every day, too.

Anectodal evidence, I know, but it nevertheless leads me to suspect that the Triad <-> Triangle commuter market may be more substantial than you'd think.

[carynative]

WRAL had a great piece tonight on how transportation funding was the big loser in this year's budget. Showed several legislators hem-hawing on the importance of it.

[Creasy336]

I saw the PART bus today in Chapel Hill. The bus makes two daily round trips, starting in Winston-Salem and ending up at Duke by way of UNC. Usually it's a little shuttle bus sort of deal but for the first time that I can remember, today it was a full-sized transit bus. Maybe their shuttle buses are in the shop or something, but then again maybe there's enough ridership now to warrant a regular bus. The windows were too darkly tinted to tell how many people were aboard.

I know at least one person who works at UNC hospital (out of, oh, six or seven at the hospital that I know altogether) who drives in from Greensboro every day.

I see several PART vanpools around Chapel Hill every day, too.

Anectodal evidence, I know, but it nevertheless leads me to suspect that the Triad <-> Triangle commuter market may be more substantial than you'd think.

[vitaviatic]

There are alot of people moving here from the Northeast who initially don't have a license, because they never had to have one. These are people who need and are accustomed to transit. This demographic should be targeted more than it is.

[JDC]

For any of y'all who are transit riders, there will be changes affecting some of TTA's routes effective August 6.

From RideTTA.org: Service Changes for August 6, 2007

[thewhister]

Just heard the news about the Federal DOT Public-Private Pilot Program award. Surprised that they are only doing it in one area of the country.

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Denver

[ChiefJoJo]

I spent a little time recently parusing the Transit Blueprint website, which houses all the information for the land use/travel corridors technical analysis ("infrastructure blueprint") and the Special Transit Advisory Commission (STAC). If you're into maps and data, check out the downloads section.

A schematic map of the potential corridors can be found here (8MB). An intro presentation to the analysis can be found here. Note: the presentation gets a bit technical but should be req'd reading before moving on.

A detailed look at the blueprint technical analysis results of each the corridors can be found by going to the downloads page and clicking on the "Corridor Summaries" link. The maps show basic land use (density color-coded) and general travel characteristics within and between the "places" in each of the corridors. As the site says, the blueprint is NOT "a blueprint of specific projects to be constructed in the region, an automatic way to select the best investments, [nor] the equivalent of an engineering study."

What I think it does show, is that a lot of the corridors we thought might be viable, probably are the most viable, or at least, I don't see anything in the analysis that surprises me. The initial data I see looks pretty good:

Durham to Raleigh (TTA Phase 1), Raleigh to NE Raleigh (TTA Phase 2), and Durham to Chapel Hill (TTA Phase 2)...

Also other good "first cut" corridors IMO:

RDU to Chapel Hill (previously studied) and Apex to Raleigh (never studied IIRC).

Frankly, based on land use data, corridor travel and likely technology (LRT, BRT, etc) characteristics, I think those are the primary corridors with which to construct a regional vision plan.

Looking at the data, pay attention not only to the color-coded "places" but also the number of "in-corridor" and "strata 1&2" trips" (w/out cars and low income) generated/ending in these corridors. I would also tend to look more a bit more at the 2005 numbers for feasibility and use the 2035 numbers for a ballpark estimate... the future numbers are at best, educated guesses at housing and employment density in the future, and could change in characteristics (density, etc) depending on a number of factors, including where transit and TOD is actually developed. I consider this a valuable tool to look at the options and see what technically makes sense to pursue further, ie, a screening tool to narrow down the focus of future transit investments.

Meanwhile, the STAC has already begun looking at the corridors and possible transit technologies in a fairly detailed way, and in the coming months, will develop a recommended Triangle Regional Vision Plan. I know we have commission members who post here and plenty of others who are casually or otherwise interested in building this plan. I hope that forumers will begin to get actively involved (participate in meetings, talking with STAC members, or other advocacy--not just chatting online!) via this forum or other outlets so we can make our voices heard in the planning process.

FYI, here are the future STAC meeting dates:

Tuesday 21 August

8:30 to 11:30 am

RDU Center

Monday 10 September

8:30 to 11:30 am

RDU Center

Thursday 27 September

8:30 to 11:30 am

RDU Center

Tuesday 16 October

8:30 to 11:30 am

RDU Center

Wednesday 31 October

Morning - Time TBD

Joint MPO TAC Meeting RDU Center

[JeffC]

Does STAC have access to the archives and documents of whatever (probably very similar) study commission or committee led to the original creation of TTA? Might save them a few hours as they recreate the wheel...

Heck, I can save them hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless hours in meetings. Any transit solution that involves existing roadways won't reduce congestion, and dedicated busways, light rail, etc. are too expensive. In short, what is cheap is ineffective, and what is effective is expensive. So we have to decide whether to build a cheap, ineffective system, or a very expensive effective system. Any questions? Given Raleigh's track record in the past, the smart money is on the cheap ineffective system.

[waltergropius]

Check out this proposed TTA bus route on newraleigh.com. I can't believe this.

Article Here

[JeffC]

^^

Whoever wrote that provides very few specifics to back up his generalized rant. Anyone know more about the proposed route revisions and can provide citations?

[Rascal]

There is a proposal to do away with the existing

[orulz]

Agreed, the author of that article is ranting, but it's not exactly clear what he's ranting for or against.

Here are my responses posted in the comments:

First of all, I have no idea what exactly which plan you

[ncwebguy]

I've *never* seen the "figure 8" alignment proposed by TTA, CAT or any transit agency, either as a bus or rail route.

As it is built, the 540 corridor is a non-starter. If it was zoned for transit oriented design at the exits, then it would make sense. But it wasn't. If NC DOT and TTA acquired the land as 540 was being built, they could have pulled it off. But now the land necessary to build the necessary hybrid TOD/park-and-ride stations is developed and/or too expensive to acquire.

The corridor that has been proposed all along, however, has a lot more potential with former large industrial tracts of land with lots of redevelopment opportunities. It also links to Durham and Raleigh's local bus terminals, which help feed the existing (and popular) TTA inter-city express routes.

It has been difficult/impossible to tell if the various committees reevaluating the TTA's future are open to the public or not.

If they want public input, they haven't done a good job telling us that. Do they have anything that the average citizen (less informed than UP readers) could understand in a positive way to counteract the "the train won't go to the airport or the mall, so it doesn't go anywhere" FUD?

[ChiefJoJo]

Orulz, I agree with your comments.

From the NewRaleigh blog:

RDU is the natural center of the Triangle, both geographically and in connection with the rest of the world - and any transit plan that leaves out the airport SHOULD fail.

I repost my earlier comments with Portland--widely touted as a model city for transit & urban planning--as an example:

In the FWIW category, I just returned from Portland, and of course they have an excellent transit system... but the interesting thing is I rode the MAX (Metro Area Express) light rail all over the region, and even on Saturday the cars were jammed, except the one to the airport... once we got to the last stop (PDX), I was literally the only person on my train who had any baggage with me. There were 2-3 others on the line that got off there (I assume) to either meet arriving passengers or get to work. Also, this MAX (Red) line, was built in 2001 as the third major extension since 1986. Even in a metro area is that is light years ahead of the Triangle in terms of transit and land use, the vast majority (95%+) of people going to/from the airport drive or get picked up in a car, so... in the lessons learned category:

• (just like I thought) running direct rail service to the airport isn't so important--especially initially

• IMO the people who complain "it doesn't go to the airport" are probably the last people who will actually use the system and probably should be educated or simply ignored

• in our system, we should focus on serving the downtowns, the universities, other focus areas (N Hills, etc), and future TOD areas

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Does anyone here know how the mass transit/light rail lines in Charlotte are doing? Do they have access to there airport thought it? Ridership? Thank you in advance!

[Creasy336]

I continue to believe that if we (UP) want to do more than blog away in the background, some sort of UP-formed advocacy group needs to take the issues from cyberspace to the public realm (STAC?). I would be very welcome to any ideas or proposals to that end.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Charlotte LRT LYNX Blue Line is 9.6 miles and opens in November 2007!

We will have trolley service from South End in off hours and week ends.

Trains will operate seven days a week from 5:00 am until 1:00 am and the fare will equal the cost of local bus fare. Trains will arrive at stations every 7.5 minutes during rush hour and every 15 minutes during non-peak hours.

The Northeast Corridor is an extension of the LYNX Blue Line light rail service. The 11-mile alignment extends from 9th Street in Center City through the North Davidson (NoDa) and University areas to I-485 north of UNC Charlotte.

The proposed North Corridor Commuter Rail Project will operate along 30 miles of the existing Norfolk Southern rail line (the "O" line) from Center City Charlotte to Mooresville (They have not signed on to this project yet) in southern Iredell County. The alignment parallels Graham Street in the south and Old Statesville Road (NC-115) in the north.

The West Corridor is one of the Charlotte Area Transit System's (CATS) five rapid transit corridors. The proposed West Corridor project is a 6.4 mile alignment that will operate Streetcar or BRT from Trade St to Cedar St to West Morehead St, then along Wilkinson Blvd to Harlee Ave, terminating at the airport employee parking lot on Harlee Ave.

The proposed Southeast Corridor Rapid Transit Project is one of Charlotte's five rapid transit corridors. The Southeast Corridor extends approximately 13.5 miles from Charlotte's Center City to the border of Mecklenburg and Union Counties, terminating at Central Piedmont Community College's Levine Campus. The Southeast has not been decided yet.

The Center City Streetcar project is a key recommendation of the 2025 Corridor System Plan. The alignment will serve the central business district(CBD) and provide connectivity to surrounding communities and institutions. The proposed streetcar line will run 10 miles along Beatties Ford Road near I-85 through Center City (CBD) along Trade Street, traveling up Elizabeth Avenue by Central Piedmont Community College(CPCC), and out to Central Avenue at Eastland Mall.

[vitaviatic]

As it is built, the 540 corridor is a non-starter. If it was zoned for transit oriented design at the exits, then it would make sense. But it wasn't. If NC DOT and TTA acquired the land as 540 was being built, they could have pulled it off. But now the land necessary to build the necessary hybrid TOD/park-and-ride stations is developed and/or too expensive to acquire...The corridor that has been proposed all along, however, has a lot more potential with former large industrial tracts of land with lots of redevelopment opportunities. It also links to Durham and Raleigh's local bus terminals, which help feed the existing (and popular) TTA inter-city express routes.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Charlotte LRT LYNX Blue Line is 9.6 miles and opens in November 2007!

We will have trolley service from South End in off hours and week ends.

Trains will operate seven days a week from 5:00 am until 1:00 am and the fare will equal the cost of local bus fare. Trains will arrive at stations every 7.5 minutes during rush hour and every 15 minutes during non-peak hours.

The Northeast Corridor is an extension of the LYNX Blue Line light rail service. The 11-mile alignment extends from 9th Street in Center City through the North Davidson (NoDa) and University areas to I-485 north of UNC Charlotte.

The proposed North Corridor Commuter Rail Project will operate along 30 miles of the existing Norfolk Southern rail line (the "O" line) from Center City Charlotte to Mooresville (They have not signed on to this project yet) in southern Iredell County. The alignment parallels Graham Street in the south and Old Statesville Road (NC-115) in the north.

The West Corridor is one of the Charlotte Area Transit System's (CATS) five rapid transit corridors. The proposed West Corridor project is a 6.4 mile alignment that will operate Streetcar or BRT from Trade St to Cedar St to West Morehead St, then along Wilkinson Blvd to Harlee Ave, terminating at the airport employee parking lot on Harlee Ave.

The proposed Southeast Corridor Rapid Transit Project is one of Charlotte's five rapid transit corridors. The Southeast Corridor extends approximately 13.5 miles from Charlotte's Center City to the border of Mecklenburg and Union Counties, terminating at Central Piedmont Community College's Levine Campus. The Southeast has not been decided yet.

The Center City Streetcar project is a key recommendation of the 2025 Corridor System Plan. The alignment will serve the central business district(CBD) and provide connectivity to surrounding communities and institutions. The proposed streetcar line will run 10 miles along Beatties Ford Road near I-85 through Center City (CBD) along Trade Street, traveling up Elizabeth Avenue by Central Piedmont Community College(CPCC), and out to Central Avenue at Eastland Mall.

[JDC]

I repost my earlier comments with Portland--widely touted as a model city for transit & urban planning--as an example:

Travel to any mass transit sytem in the country (I saw the same in Paris as well) that serves the airport, and I'll bet the ridership is significantly lower than those lines that serve downtowns and other mixed-use/employment centers, the *REAL* transit lynchpins.

Any Triangle Transit Plan not directly including the airport is going to have to address the widely held notion that rail service to RDU ASAP is a fundamental requirement of the system. I think many suburbanites (which we have many) latch onto the idea probably because it's the only trip they can imagine taking on the system, so they project that view as the defacto pass/fail criteria.

[ncwebguy]

The schedule/ad screen idea was a twist on the arrival/departure screens at airports and London's train stations. Moore Square already has a staffed ticket booth, but it doesn't sell drinks, snacks, newspapers, etc. It would be cool if Morning Times had small outposts at the larger stations that doubled as stores for the surrounding area as well. A monitor would be a lot easier to secure as part of such a kiosk, like ATM machines on buildings or free standing in convenience stores.

Hamilton Drugs is right next to Moore Square, but has limited hours (and a weakl drink/snack selection).

As for the outside of 540 area, there are some watershed issues, but they haven't stopped developments like Bedford (stepford?) at Falls River, Wakefield, etc. The 540 corridor is dense in spots north of the loop, but only where there were good north/south connections -- Capitol Blvd, Falls of Neuse, and Leesvile -- but not so much in the area roughly bounded by 540, Leesville, Norwood/Mt. Vernon Church/Durant and Falls. In that area, I think the limited/no water and sewer infrastructure was more of a barrier to development than the Neuse/Falls Lake watershed, which kicks in north of that area. That could have been zoned TOD, with park and ride (or buses) for "just inside 540" residents going to RTP or taking the train east to transfer to the downtown-bound train in the existing TTA corridor.

That area *didn't* have to be tied to the car, but the road-only 540 sealed its fate. The same is true of 540 through Apex and SW Wake, but they're too happy with Beaver Creek, a pseudo-village and now Trinity.

[vitaviatic]

Chins up guys. Here's a story of another metropolis -- a mighty fine one too, IMHO -- that really blew it far worse than the Triangle.

Kansas City Star -- 08/09/2007

Note the major case of "Airportitis" that is killing this project, which actually got voter approval! Assuming that most of you aren't familiar with the geographic layout of "the KCs", it's this in a nutshell. The KCI airport (interestingly coded "MCI" for real) is about 20 miles north-northwest of downtown KCMO (Kansas City, Missouri) with little save a few suburban hamlets, an office park or two near the airport, and a whole lotta prairie between it and downtown. The system was sold to voters as running from the airport through downtown to the KC Zoo in Swope Park, just southeast of downtown. For the estimated $1.65 billion (upper limit) cited on the tax initiative (3/8ths of cent), they KCATA has now calculated that is still some $400 million plus short of funding, if the federal government pays half (sound familiar?). The writer of the ballot iniative is now nowhere to be found. Yes friends, democracy is a messy business.

The danger signs were there all along. First, there was no pre-exsiting rail corridor to follow with this project. They would have had to go through the same land procurement procedures as a highway project, with far more technical issues at play. There is a major river to cross (the Missouri) and a dense industrial area to cut through in North KC, all presenting significant grade problems. If they had followed the BNSF alignment up the river there would have been absolutely nothing of an urban, or even suburban nature to stitch together. Go to Google Earth and see for yourself.

For that same $1.65 million, or less, they could have had a nifty little streetcar system from downtown KCMO down to the Country Club Plaza/UMKC area -- which is the real heart of KC's retail -- plus a commuter line paralleling the BNSF/UP down to Mission, Overland Park, Lenexa, and Olathe, which are the big job engines for greater KC, and probably KCK as well, with way better ridership, and a much better bang for the buck value.

Lesson from this: the Triangle is not that far off track. The basic TTA system, as proposed, is completely sane next to this one. But, for those who continue with the silliness of cutting virgin swaths through places with an "e" hanging off the end of the name, just for the sake of getting to the airport, refer back to this sad KC story once in awhile. These poor guys are going to have to start over again for real...

Short and sweet to start. Then expand from a dedicated rider base. And don't re-invent the wheel any more than you have to.

[ChiefJoJo]

We've talked about transit plans from Raleigh to Durham and Durham to Chapel Hill (via 15/501/NC 54) but what about the other corridors... for example, the NCRR-owned University Railroad corridor form the UNC Cogeneration plant through Carrboro up to Carolina North. Here are a couple of pics I snapped of the corridor (not the best--cell phone cam)...

Behind Main St and Cat's Cradle in Carrboro:

Now just into Chapel Hill (I think) appraoching the Cogeneration Plant near Cameron St:

I wonder when looking at transit corridors, how one would connect this right-of-way with the 15-501/54 segment to form a continous transit corridor? No one has ever defined exactly where the Chapel Hill line would enter campus and the hospital, although Manning Drive is a logical place... and there are rows of historic homes in the McCauley St area between the hospital and the end of the university railroad... I suppose you could connect the two via LRT/BRT on the streets, but I'm not sure how viable that would be. Anyway, I seem to recall orulz posting something on this question before so I need to search...

EDIT: I knew I remember reading something! Here's the link to his post:

That railroad in Chapel Hill, by the way, DID at one point in time run all the way to Columbia Street. The passenger terminal for the city of Chapel Hill and the University of North Carolina was on the northwest corner of the South Rd / Columbia Street intersection, right next to the Carolina Inn. This is directly across Columbia street from the main UNC academic quad.

If you ever drive/walk/bike along Ransom Street between McCauley and Cameron, you'll notice that at the highest point on the street it crosses a grassy alley that's inaccessible to cars. The alley extends directly from the UNC Cogeneration Plant to the parking lot behind the Carolina Inn. Right now this alleyway is used for the steam lines running to campus from the plant, but it used to be the aforementioned rail line. The ROW is pretty wide (50 feet or so) and there is clearly enough space to fit two tracks with no direct impact on the built environment if need be.

...UNC has set aside a transit corridor in their Main Campus Master Plan. They want the line to head up Mason Farm Rd from the Bypass, curving north and terminating somewhere to the south of the hospital. That doesn't seem very convenient for anyone. I think it would be better if they linked it to the old rail corridor to create a route through Chapel Hill. The engineering would be difficult, but no more so than what TTA already plans to do at the wye in downtown Raleigh.

I suspect that a "through" route is exactly what Chapel Hill and the University are trying to avoid due to some form of the disease "NIMBYitis." However, this would link both Carrboro and UNC North to the regional rail system, which is undeniably a good thing, and well worth the impact it would have on Chapel Hill and the university.

[mattm]

Yes, truly nice corridors into a very transit-friendly place. But, that transit-friendly place is surrounded by transit-hostile development (or no development) as you head out each of those corridors. The 15-501 study found that ridership was poor for all modes studied, which is not surprising when you consider how pedestrian-hostile the 15-501 corridor is. BRT or BMT came out as the preferred modes because they had the lowest capital cost (there was a quite rail-hostile contingent in Chapel Hill politics at the time also). The Carrboro rail line is great in that it gets to the future North Campus, but beyond that it only connects to the rest of the world in a very roundabout fashion.

[orulz]

I agree with your opinion of the 15/501 corridor. Not exactly transit friendly.

I have always kind of thought that the Chapel Hill -> RTP Metro Center -> RDU (also known as the I-40/NC54 corridor) would be more promising as a "phase 2" than the 15/501 corridor. Going east from Chapel Hill, it hits the following locations:

UNC (extension to Carolina North?)

UNC Hospital / Kenan Stadium

Dean Dome

"East 54"

Meadowmont

Southpoint

54/55 intersection

Triangle Metro Center

Imperial Center

RDU Airport

All of these areas either are pretty pedestrian friendly, are planned to become pedestrian friendly, or could easily become so. In addition, this line would connect CH directly to Raleigh, and the entire transit system to RDU. I envision this line as electric LRT though I suppose diesel LRT would work, too, if it makes the connection to Carolina North easier.