Traffic, Freeways and Road Construction

[dubone]

highways will not be cut for new orleans or iraq, in my opinion. it is the one area where fiscal and social conservatives are almost unanimously tax-and-spend.

Call me crazy, but perhaps we could slow down the mission to send fido to mars or something.

Let's not make this a NO vs. Highways as that is not really how it works. No question that the feds need to spend an appropriate amount of money to bail new orleans out because it is the federal government that underfunded the corps of engineers and the levee system and that is just that. Also, investments to rebuild after hurricanes DO spur the economies of those area, and that is what makes it okay in my opinion as it counts as government investment rather than government consumption. The same goes with transport funding. Both provide long term capital and infrastructure that create long term benefits and revenues.

There are, however, vast sums of money that the federal government spends that is simply consumption, and with deficit borrowing, that consumption creates a long-term drain on the budget and economy for only short-term gains.

We'll see, though.

As far as what part will be widened, good question. In looking up the old article when the legislation passed, i only see mention of the Catawba Ave interchange with 77, so i'm not sure. I know on the state books, the only widening even listed is from 485 to nc73, but it is possible that the federal earmark came with different boundaries. Also, as far as i remember the current widening is just an extended on-ramp/auxiliary lane and when the true widening project comes, it will create 2 additional through lanes, even through that section south of gilead.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12261803.htm

[monsoon]

In studing the article it would only seem to include a redo of exit 28. It is an old diamond shaped exit which really could benefit from some modern changes. Maybe something like what is at Tyvola and I-77. One thing that definately helped was the building of exit 25 and a shift of Hwy 73 off exit 28 to exit 25, but even with that, it needs rebuilding. Cornelus is completely redesigning and improving Catawba to make it much more pedestrian friendly and this will go a long way to help that.

.

It will be much more of a neighborhood street and less a traffic corridor.

I believe that Huntersville is seeking money to do the same or similar with exit 23

[nyxmike]

Somebody said that NC has the most miles of roads to maintain behind Texas (if I'm wrong correct me), then how does Texas do it. From what I have seen, they have nice wide interstates, but NC always has funding issues (yet NC has the highest gasoline tax rate in the southeast) ??

I still find it hard to justify spending millions of dollars in rural parts of the state when roads under-construction now should be finished (like 485) and widened.

[A2]

Somebody said that NC has the most miles of roads to maintain behind Texas (if I'm wrong correct me), then how does Texas do it. From what I have seen, they have nice wide interstates, but NC always has funding issues (yet NC has the highest gasoline tax rate in the southeast) ??

I still find it hard to justify spending millions of dollars in rural parts of the state when roads under-construction now should be finished (like 485) and widened.

you are correct nyxmike about the most miles of roads to maintain just behind Texas. It is hard to believe since NC is not that large of a state.

It is really sad about the roads here. SC has less of a tax than NC and they have better mangement of their cash. A great example of this is on 77. When you cross from NC to SC (going away for the city) the highway actually widens.

I was thinking that was the ultimate indicator as to how broke we are when it comes to Roads. I-77 is not going to make it if they do not widen it until 2030.

This state is going to lose more money than they save by not expanding the current system. Clogged Interstates and Inadequate Infastruture is not a great way to retain and recruit companies.

A2

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/12796930.htm

looks like half of cabarrus county's 85 widening will start in 2012.

[DigitalSky]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/12796930.htm

looks like half of cabarrus county's 85 widening will start in 2012.

2012 seems to be a key year for a lot of things to start...

[dubone]

yeah... that is the horizon year AFTER the current 7 year construction plan. My guess is that when they start forming the next 7 year plan, all those 2012 projects will suddenly be 2015 projects. The whole reason they are 2012 projects is because we couldn't afford them in the 7 year plan.

With federal money going to the 85 widening, though, i'd bet that it will get a higher priority when they do the next plan.

[graydog]

This is good news and a bit amzing to me. The vote by city council should come after the election which could both help and hurt it depending on who's elected. In either case the direction is very hopeful. In the end, specific implementations will promise exciting city council meetings. Expect the same tired arguments from the "more roads, bigger roads, cul-de-sac" crowds.

Charlotte rethinks traffic strategy

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/new...on/12863304.htm

Public hearings on the proposed guidelines:

[monsoon]

In a pleasantly surprising move for an area school system, Gaston county schools, is planning to convert its entire fleet of school buses to run on waste vegetable oil from their school cafeterias. This is one of the smartest ideas that I have heard come out of a government organization in the area in quite some time. They are planning a demonstration today, but I don't have the details on its location.

[dubone]

that is very very cool. way to go gaston county. school busses are the best for that, as one of the big draw backs to vegie oil as diesel is that it needs to be heated up before being used. but school busses often idle before they must drive, so it is easier for busses to use biodiesel than the average auto user.

[monsoon]

Keep in mind that biodiesel and modifying a vehicle to run on vegetable oil are not exactly the same.

In the veggie oil process you are correct about the heating problems. Veggie oil is best for controlled enviroments like school buses because of the heating issue and the fact that you have to make expensive modifications to the engine to burn it. But if you can get beyond these limitations, then the fuel itself is cheap if not free in the case of Gaston.

On the other hand, bioiesel is a process of converting veggie oil into diesel fuel. There are several methods to do this but the big advantage is that you can run it in an unmodified diesel vehicle and the preheating requirement is not there. In parts of NC, you can buy it at several stations. I think the closest to Charlotte is a station in Salisbury. Of course this fuel is more expensive but certainly more convenient. Anybody with a diesel vehicle can drive up and fuel up their vehicle and drive off with no concerns. I personally think in the long run you will see many more vehicles burning biodiesel as they offer great real world fuel economy (as opposed to hybrids) and also run on sustainable fuel.

[dubone]

i guess on the flip side, i'd say, this creates a permanent impediment to improving the nutritional standards in those school districts. Kids should not be served deep fried foods at school... but i guess that is for another topic

[monsoon]

Deep fried food is not bad for you if done in moderation, like anything else. It takes good parenting to teach kids what is proper. But you are correct, that is another topic. I don't think there will be any problem at all in getting waste vegetable oil. And with Diesel running $3.41 retail it is going to save a lot of money and reduce our reliance on foriegn oil.

[dubone]

thanks for the clarification of biodiesel vs veggie oil.

so when are we going to see a biodiesel hybrid .

(by the way, i own a mild hybrid --one that never runs entirely on the electric motor --- and i am actually seeing real world fuel economy)

Mine:

V6 + hybrid electric motor

3500 lbs curbweight

255 hp

232 lb-ft torque

realworld average mileage (mostly city) 31mpg

realworld mileage on a long distance freeway trip: 37mpg

My Wife's car:

I4

2700 lbs curbweight

160 hp

141 lb-ft torque

realworld average mileage (mostly city): 26mpg

realworld mileage on a long distance freeway trip: 31mpg

As you can see, i have a bigger, heavier car with 60% more horse power and torque... but i get 20% better ave fuel mileage and i'm a much lead-footed driver than she is (and she has a manual vs automatic, which is typically even more economical).

[monsoon]

That sounds like you are driving a honda accord hybrid. Did you actually measure the mileage as Consumer Reports says that vehicle gets a real world mileage of about 25mpg. The EPA is in the process of revising their 35 year old methodology for determining fuel mileage to get values that are closer to what people see in real driving. They currently don't measure mileage. Instead they measure tail pipe emissions and then use a computer formula to determine fuel mileage. It worked ok 35 years ago on the then technology. It doesn't work now higher tech cars.

GM, and Diamler Chrysler are working on hybrids that incorporate a diesel over using a gasoline engine. Honda sells a very nice diesel car in Europe where gasoline costs much more than here, but at the moment they don't import it into the USA.

[dubone]

yeah, that is the mileage on my dashboard from my actual miles per gallon driven.

apparently, hybrids don't do as well in colder climates, which might play into the CR "real world" number, but wouldn't affect my driving in charlotte until this winter (i'll let you know how it turns out). my average since i've owned the car has been between 30 and 31.

I still get less than the EPA number 30 city/37 freeway, although the freeway number holds up pretty well.... i might be getting ~25 or so in the city, which is offset by the good highway mileage to bring me to an average of 30mpg...

Considering that the real world numbers for regular cars is also lower than EPA estimates, i'm still glad i got the hybrid. i had a smaller (older) i4 honda accord for 9 years and definitely didn't get an average of 30 mpg, even on longhaul trips.

We vote with our money, and i want the industry to realize that effiency and emissions are important investments... so that was a major reason i got one, even if it only saves me 20% on gas vs the 35% indicated by the EPA numbers.

i'm sure the advancements in hybrids can help them get better mileage for regular cars. for example, my car switches to just 3 cylinders when cruising... which probably saves me more gas than the electric motor.... that could certainly be applied to other models without the expense of the battery and motor. So even if the hybrid technology is just a fad, i believe it will spur other advancements that will help efficiency of all cars.

[Norm2]

Is Brevard just being repaved north of the arena, or are they currently turning it into a two way street? I notcied they changed some of the lines on the road.....you know how it went from the 3 lanes down to two and the right lane was the one that receded? now its the left one.....almost like it could maybe be used a right turn lane,or maybe a left turn lane put in the middle.

[monsoon]

It appears that Gaston county will be manufacturing its own biodiesel from the used cooking oil instead of burning the oil directly. The system expects good savings as it pays to dispose of the used oil now. An interesting tidbit. BioDiesel is the only fuel out there right now that fully meets the requirements of the Clean Air Act. It is environmental friendly, renewable, and good business for North Carolina.

CMS is closely watching the experiment in Gaston and may implement the same program here. That would be quite astonishing if they actually did something that made sense for a change.

[dubone]

CMS is closely watching the experiment in Gaston and may implement the same program here. That would be quite astonishing if they actually did something that made sense for a change.

amen to that.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12879236.htm

nooooo. some NC senator wants to reduce the gas tax, which means even less money for transportation infrastructure in this state.

2.5 cents per gallon means little when buying gas... yet going to a gas tax means the money is actually spent to benefit the consumer. Lowering the tax just means the private sector has more room to raise prices, in which case that money will go to oil companies and middle-eastern governments.

[carolina_fan]

Can someone explain to me why in town stop lights are not better coordinated? With computerization, traffic flow could be made much more efficient. City streets could handle more traffic. It would save gas, time and even wear on brakes. Drivers would be far less frustrated. It seems that many of these lights are used to control speeds, instead of move cars.

[monsoon]

Can someone explain to me why in town stop lights are not better coordinated? With computerization, traffic flow could be made much more efficient. City streets could handle more traffic. It would save gas, time and even wear on brakes. Drivers would be far less frustrated. It seems that many of these lights are used to control speeds, instead of move cars.

Two reasons.

First is the NCDOT.

Second, the city has recently changed timings in the CBD to reduce the chances of another melee (riot) occuring down there.

[dubone]

i am super miffed about the changes in the light timings downtown.

NCDOT funded a computerization system for downtown a number of years ago, so we have the ability to coordinate the lights, and they were coordinated for years. When taking mcdowell or caldwell from stonewall to 7th street, you used to be able to make it all the way with only being stopped a maximum of once going the 35 mph speed limit.

Now, they've changed it, you wait at every other light. Your light turns green and the next one turns red. So now instead of taking ~5 minutes with one red light cycle, you end up stopping at at 4 or 5 lights and it takes 10 minutes. it is infuriating. And the only way to skip one of two lights is to peel out when it turns green to at least get through the next one on yellow.

my mpg have dropped considerably since i started doing this.... but it is the only way to get anywhere without ripping your hair out on 4 consecutive red lights.

um... melees don't happen because people get green lights... so whoever made that decision in CDOT or CMPD should be fired.

[Neo]

Seems like this has been covered here before, but I just want to rant about it again. Why does the NCDOT bother putting up the large electronic displays over interstates (like the one on I-485 near Rocky River Rd.) and never use them? I pass by the one on I-85 before the 29/49 connector all the time and all it ever says is "NCDOT Sign Test." You'd think they would have gotten it tested by now, it's been there for quite some time. Why can't they display some useful information? Like maybe the weather or <GASP> traffic conditions?

I also want to complain about the lights not being on in completely dark on I-77 south on Sunday night. What's up with that? There are lights there and they weren't on...that stretch of road, over almost any other in the area, needs lights.

[A2]

I also want to complain about the lights not being on in completely dark on I-77 south on Sunday night. What's up with that? There are lights there and they weren't on...that stretch of road, over almost any other in the area, needs lights.

Amen to that Neo. That is my hot button topic. I am soooo fregin mad about the light situation on the Interstates. I think if the state does not do something soon people will get hurt. I almost had an accident myself becasue of how dark it was one evening. I sometimes wonder if the state could be sued for neglegence when a major pile up happens due to insufficient lighting. It is their responsibility to keep the roads SAFE !

Hell , we have less lanes on 77 in NC going into Charlotte than SC does and they even have lights. Why is this so backwards? Should this not be the other way around.

One of my co-workers has told me on many occasions that on I-77 going to Rock Hill (where he commutes from) is so backed up that he could be sitting in traffic for almost 2 hours if there is an incident both in the evening and morning !

I have ranted countless times about this and have yet to get an answer. One will say money and another will point to Duke (stating that it is an electrical issue).

I really don't care who's fault it is, just find the way to get it fixed. We are in the 20th largest city in the entire US and are the 6th largest city in distribution and transport. One of these days the law makers and politicians will get off their soap box and get something done. This city's infastructure is critical to retaining the tax base that we get from major corporations who set up shop herre. One of these days we might just lose these companies who pay big taxes because they are sick and tired of paying outrageous city,county and state taxes that never seem to go the the infastructure that is so desperately needed and that EVERYBODY wants.

Charlotte has been taged with having bad roads, bad schools, and a bad arts scene. All of this is the responsibilty of Gov't to handle. WHy are my dollars being squandered ?

I am going to go as far as suggest that before you start allocating money for completing the belt, put up some lights. Just do it.

As for the electronic road signs neo, I have no clue. I agree though they are never used. I have been sitting in traffic where there was a wreck 2 miles in from of me and the NCDOT did not even post anything on the silly board. I think instead of buying fancy signs that are never used we should have bought some freggin light bulbs that might have lit the roads.

BTW, on a side note there are NO lights going to Suset either on 77 from Uptown. I guess we need to pool our tax dollars together and put a freggin loop around Wilmington and Fayettville where it is desperately needed. GIVE ME A FREGGIN BREAK !!!

A2