Sports in Charlotte

[elrodvt]

20 hours ago, Durhamite said:

This is a good overview of the current situation; however, the conference realignment snowball will effectively end references to the vintage term "conference" as we know it (it already has).  Eventually, I think they'll call the merged entity the CFB conference with divisions like B1G, ACC, SEC, etc to keep some form of connection to the past.  No way these TV networks can continue to pony-up hordes of money versus funding one source with varying levels of divisional access to compete for a championship.  I think they'll try to keep competition regional with regional headquarters say for the "ACC Division" in Charlotte.  Though teams like FSU and Clemson may belong to higher tiered division for CFB.  Meaning, teams in the higher tiered divisions will probably have 2x as many representatives as a lower tiered division to make the playoffs.  There are several teams in the B1G and SEC that don't have the brand or able to compete at the same level as certain teams in the top tiered division of CFB (suck it up butter cup, headed to a different division which only makes sense).  It's already there and it won't be long before those higher tiered teams demand a greater share of the pie, very similar to what FSU is doing in the ACC...though FSU hasn't really done anything in a decade to warrant the barking other than its historical brand (uh, let's try to beat Wake Forest on a regular FSU).

I think this is only the only way to save collegiate sports without totally alienating the fans and completely destroying rivalries. 

You guys don't think the B-12 is viable? I know it's mostly about football but they were arguably the top basketball conference last season.

I'm not a fan of the ACC per se but it will be a tragedy if those basketball rivalries disappear. MD leaving was pretty disappointing for me since as a kid in N-VA watching the ACC with MD (and NO FL schools) was the *best*, including going to Cole a couple times with my mom who was a fanatic. Had also hoped, beyond reason, uncc would move there. If only we could untangle football from the rest of collegiate sports... 

[J-Rob]

23 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

If only we could untangle football from the rest of collegiate sports... 

Creating a separate power league for football (and maybe basketball) makes so much sense it is almost painful it hasn't happened.  A football schedule requires relatively minimal travel compared to sports where teams have to travel to every other conference opponent.  The non-football athletes really come out on the short end with crazy realignment. 

[KJHburg]

Given that ESPNU and SEC and ACC networks based here in Charlotte is it possible that Charlotte could become the HQ city of even a larger conference? 

[J-Rob]

I like your thinking, but my guess is that SEC powers will push for Atlanta to be the home since that is where they are and where the SEC Championship is so successful.

[Durhamite]

4 hours ago, elrodvt said:

You guys don't think the B-12 is viable? I know it's mostly about football but they were arguably the top basketball conference last season.

I'm not a fan of the ACC per se but it will be a tragedy if those basketball rivalries disappear. MD leaving was pretty disappointing for me since as a kid in N-VA watching the ACC with MD (and NO FL schools) was the *best*, including going to Cole a couple times with my mom who was a fanatic. Had also hoped, beyond reason, uncc would move there. If only we could untangle football from the rest of collegiate sports... 

Well, the B-12 is a viable conference but lost their two biggest brands in Oklahoma and Texas, so it's been patchworked up through Group of 5 acquisitions and poaching of the PAC-12.  Even with the ACC's long term GOR in it's current form, I think the payout is larger than the just negotiated B-12, though they'll be able to maybe command more in 5-6 years during the next round if these conferences exist.  Blasphemy, the B-12 has had a few good years but the only comparable conference to vintage ACC Basketball is the 80's Big East.  The new ACC still (Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, et) have more basketball legacy than teams in the B-12 asides from Kansas.  MD chased the money early on and seems to have worked out for now, but I still think they'll get booted to a tier 2 division after these TV network contracts expire and the CFB Super League comes to fruition.    I don't care what they say, MD basketball fans, etc miss the ACC battles....but I don't blame them, take the money and run.

UNCC could be an interesting case for a serious conference/division upgrade, but the sports facilities will need serious on-campus investments.   Stay tuned, CFB has already untangled from the rest of collegiate sports, they just need to put a rubber stamp on the paperwork.

Much like corporate America, organizations will somehow come up with a "new" old idea and someone will put a blessing on it as being original and get a big bonus.  Meaning, the new idea is the same one from 20 years ago...rinse and repeat.  So, 30 years from now, a group of schools, say close in proximity (UNC, MD, VA, VA Tech, etc) are going to say, these conference alignments make no geographical sense and 10 of them will break away to form a conference and call it the ACC....then the Midwest schools will do the same....lol, I do mean this is how it works.  Remember the old Southern Conference was composition of a lot of current ACC and SEC teams (see history): Southern Conference - Wikipedia

Edited August 16, 2023 by Durhamite

[kermit]

57 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Given that ESPNU and SEC and ACC networks based here in Charlotte is it possible that Charlotte could become the HQ city of even a larger conference? 

IMO a scenario where Charlotte benefits from conference realignment seems very unlikely -- the best we can hope for is that the ACC survives. My reasoning here is:

• Despite recent expansion, the SEC and Big 10 are very tied to their home regions (the same forces which made it highly unlikely that the ACC was going to relocate its HQ outside of NC)
• I can't see a scenario where the SEC and Big 10 merge and they would need a neutral site HQ (aka the Truist scenario). There would be huge culture clashes between the fans and I don't see anything to be gained from such a move
• The Big 12 has no connections to NC and few viewers here. Their center of gravity is Texas, not the east coast. They are not going to have much influence in further consolidation IMO
• Spinning off the big football programs into their own organization (and leaving all the other sports to operate in their traditional, regional, way) could happen, but I doubt that this (still hypothetical) organization would choose Charlotte. College football is worth a bunch of money because they have competing bidders for the TV content (Fox Sports and ESPN are the big ones) -- I doubt a football organization would want to express any favoritism for one of those bidders by locating its HQ next door.

Keep in mind that its really just one college sports TV business here. ESPN owns and operates the ACC and SEC networks. IMO ESPN choose Charlotte for its college football operations almost entirely for the airport, pretty much every corner of both leagues is just a direct flight away (except for maybe Starkeville, its probably easier to go from CLT to Northern Guatemala than to get to Little Dooey's).

Edited August 16, 2023 by kermit

[rancenc]

Looks like Cincinnati is experiencing large crowds for the tennis events this week......let's see how that plays out concerning a move to Charlotte or not.

https://www.wlwt.com/article/big-crowds-turning-out-in-mason-western-southern-open/44822455

[kermit]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:50 PM, KJHburg said:

Given that ESPNU and SEC and ACC networks based here in Charlotte is it possible that Charlotte could become the HQ city of even a larger conference? 

The ACC Network has now gone coast to coast (not sure if that is a good thing however)

 

 

[Hushpuppy321]

Wow - Watching Charlotte 49ers playing Maryland on the local NBC affiliate station and they’re looking good.  I didn’t realize that they’re in the B1G Conference.  When did that happen?

[kermit]

15 hours ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Wow - Watching Charlotte 49ers playing Maryland on the local NBC affiliate station and they’re looking good.  I didn’t realize that they’re in the B1G Conference.  When did that happen?

Are you asking about Maryland or Charlotte in the B1G? This is a non-conference game, Charlotte is new to the AAC this year and Maryland left the ACC and went to the Big 10 in 2014 (to get bigger tv money checks). Slightly off topic, ACC hoops was significantly diminished when the Terps left.

Niners are playing really well on national TV though!

Edited September 10, 2023 by kermit

[elrodvt]

16 hours ago, kermit said:

Are you asking about Maryland or Charlotte in the B1G? This is a non-conference game, Charlotte is new to the AAC this year and Maryland left the ACC and went to the Big 10 in 2014 (to get bigger tv money checks). Slightly off topic, ACC hoops was significantly diminished when the Terps left.

Niners are playing really well on national TV though!

Yes, MD was a big loss to the ACC and they sure read the tea leaves correctly long before anyone else. 

I'm looking forward to Charlotte joining the aac in basketball as their previous conference was terrible. That said, by the time they get there the aac will be greatly weakened. This isn't going to end well for mid market schools. 

[kermit]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:21 PM, elrodvt said:

This isn't going to end well for mid market schools. 

I agree, all of this realignment and the end of regionalism is existential disaster for college sports. Having said that, I can picture a scenario where UNCC sneaks into a significantly weakened ACC (post Carolina, UVA, Clemson and FSU) and would then regularly play schools like Wake, NCSU and GA Tech and Louisville once again (those CUSA basketball games against Rick Pitino in the early 2000s were unbelievable). Such a move would require actually pulling off the stadium expansion that appears to be stalled despite the requirements of the AAC.

^ Having said all that, I am increasingly convinced that neither the SEC or B1G are at all interested in FSU or Clemson despite all of the bluster from the two schools. Neither university brings the SEC any new TV revenue, something that has driven SEC expansion in the past. Creates new recruiting headaches for other conference schools (particularly UF, UGA  and USC). Finally, the B1G is too busy trumpeting their BS academic standards to give a Southern land grant school a second look. The Heels and Wahoos, on the other hand are the pick of the remaining litter for both of the super-conferences, but both schools have expressed some commitment to the ACC and state politics will resit them spliting off from their land grant siblings.

Edited September 11, 2023 by kermit

[elrodvt]

"the B1G is too busy trumpeting their BS academic standards"

Why are the B1G academic goals "B.S."? I'm just not up on that and am not trying to start an argument. 

[kermit]

On 9/10/2023 at 2:57 PM, elrodvt said:

"the B1G is too busy trumpeting their BS academic standards"

Why are the B1G academic goals "B.S."? I'm just not up on that and am not trying to start an argument. 

This is mostly just me being pissy. While Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Indiana, Perdue, Iowa, Nebraska and Wisconsin (and Oregon and Washington) are all fine schools, they really don't have any more academic heft than a UGA, UT, Arkansas, Clemson, Virginia Tech or Florida State these days. One example: UGA currently has a 40% undergraduate admissions rate, while Ohio State's is 56% (Chapel Hill's is 20%). A second example is sponsored research dollards:  UGA has more sponsored research dollars than either Oregon or Illinois,  Ohio State and Chapel Hill's research dollars are basically the same,  Texas A&M and UF outperform about half of the Big 10 schools.

The AAU status the B1G keeps trumpeting is an invitation-only honor that got started in the Midwest back when those schools were among the best in the country (thanks to industrial era tax revenues). Southern schools have experienced a ton of forward progress since the 1980s, and research dollars mostly come from federal (rather than state) funds these days. The AAU has been slow (some say reluctant) to recognize improvements in Southern schools with invitations to join.

tldr: I am not saying B1G schools are bad, just that they (as a group) have not been significantly higher quality than peer institutions (based on a range of measures) outside of the Midwest for 30+ years.

Louisville,  USC (the one in South Carolina) and Mississippi State on the other hand...

Edited September 11, 2023 by kermit

[Crucial_Infra]

Some have speculated the reason NC State flipped its no vote to “yes” for inclusion of Cal, Stanford and SMU is that State is hoping Cal and Stanford might be able to help State get into the AAU which would obviously be helpful in the event they decide to leave the ACC. Overall, a complete mess. I agree that UNC and UVA are in the catbird seat being the last two P5 flagship state universities on the East Coast yet to fall. 

[CltFlyer]

7 hours ago, kermit said:

This is mostly just me being pissy. While Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State, Illinois, Indiana, Perdue, Iowa, Nebraska and Wisconsin (and Oregon and Washington) are all fine schools, they really don't have any more academic heft than a UGA, UT, Arkansas, Clemson, Virginia Tech or Florida State these days. One example: UGA currently has a 40% undergraduate admissions rate, while Ohio State's is 56% (Chapel Hill's is 20%). A second example:  UGA has more sponsored research dollars than either Oregon or Illinois. Ohio State and Chapel Hill's research dollars are basically the same. Texas A&M and UF outperform about half of the Big 10 schools.

's (although the Big 10 school generally do really well with sponsored research, but I can't see any connection between that and athletics).  The AAU status the B1G keeps trumpeting is an invitation-only honor that got started in the Midwest back when those schools were among the best in the country (thanks to industrial era tax revenues). Southern schools have experienced a ton of forward progress since the 1980s (and a good bit of backwards progress over the past decade), and research funds mostly come from federal (rather than state) funds these days. The AAU has been slow (some say reluctant) to recognize improvements in Southern schools with invitations to join.

tldr: I am not saying B1G schools are bad, just that they (as a group) have not been significantly higher quality than peer institutions outside of the Midwest for 30+ years.

Louisville, Auburn, USC and Mississippi State on the other hand...

I know I'm slightly biased (my alma mater is Auburn), but I will say that acceptance rates aren't always an indicator of how good a school is.  I'll use University of Alabama vs Auburn as an indicator.  For years Alabama had around a 50% acceptance rate to Auburn's 75% or so, but Auburn actually had (slightly) higher test score requirements.  It's just that Alabama had a much larger amount of people applying, many who were unqualified due to the popularity of their sports program.  It seems that it has evened out recently though.  

Auburn also has nearly identical acceptance rate (71%)  (if not lower) /requirements  to AAU schools such as Oregon (93%), and CU Boulder (79.6%) and higher/similar average GPA/test scores etc...

I'm not suggesting that schools like Auburn (and USC) are on the same level as the UFs and Texas, but the gap is not as large as perceived.  

[kermit]

7 hours ago, CltFlyer said:

I'm not suggesting that schools like Auburn (and USC) are on the same level as the UFs and Texas, but the gap is not as large as perceived.  

My apologies. Louisville is always my preferred academic quality whipping boy, and I just felt like I needed to add a couple of SEC schools to that list. As a Georgia grad Auburn naturally came to mind. If not for rival status, I would not have mentioned it. I agree, there are many things Auburn University does well.

[carolinaboy]

To any UNC Charlotte alum/fans/supporters coming to the metropolis of Greenville tomorrow for the UNC Charlotte vs. East Carolina football game, welcome. I'll be there with a few Pirates and my daughter and some of her fellow UNC Charlotte students. I'm disowning her for the day and will disown her for a week if the Pirates lose. Anyway, I hope you all have a safe trip and enjoy some of Greenville and the East Carolina campus. Too bad neither team is good this year. First team to 6 might win it.

[KJHburg]

after last night's game it to time for people in Charlotte to latch on to the Hurricanes, the only professional team to bring a championship to NC!

Official Carolina Hurricanes Website | Carolina Hurricanes (nhl.com)

2nd plade in their division right now and a winning record! 

 

[kermit]

The Atlantic League where the Gastonia Honey Hunters (and the High Point Rockers) played is kinda the Bad News Bears of minor leagues (no affiliations with MLB clubs and the least stable finances).  Per the CBJ they decided to boot the Honey Hunters out of the league for next year due to "financial issues".

Quote

The ALPB spokesperson added the 12-team league still intends to field a team in Gastonia in 2024. The league spokesperson declined to comment more when asked if the process to find new team ownership in Gastonia was underway.

The city of Gastonia (who owns the ballpark) filed a lawsuit against the team last week to terminate their lease.

Many of these financial issues are discussed upthread, they became news in July.

I hope they can find a new ownership group, its not a bad ballpark (except for the turf field) and its a pretty great location for a game.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/11/22/gastonia-honey-hunters-sued-alpb-terminated.html

[kermit]

While I am an ACC homer (in basketball season), I can’t see how Florida State’s snub in the football playoffs does anything other than hasten the demise of the league (the Power 5 is now the Power 3 with the PAC12 gone and the ACC being treated today like its CUSA). I am certainly not suggesting that FSU was deserving of one of the four playoff slots (strength of schedule plus a 3rd string starting QB who can do little more than hand the ball off) but when a team with FSU’s ego manages an undefeated, conference championship, season and they still get snubbed, they are gonna want to make some changes.

Hopefully the Orange Bowl exhibition game against my Bulldogs will put all of today’s selection news into proper context, but I suspect that the damage to the league has already been done. I am seriously going to miss 2x Carolina-duke basketball matchups every year. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by kermit

[tozmervo]

Nice  win for BAC Stadium!

Copa América semifinals in New Jersey and Charlotte, among 14 U.S. cities hosting next summer | AP News

[CltFlyer]

On 12/4/2023 at 4:40 PM, tozmervo said:

Nice  win for BAC Stadium!

Copa América semifinals in New Jersey and Charlotte, among 14 U.S. cities hosting next summer | AP News

This has potential to be one of the "biggest" sporting events Charlotte has ever hosted.   A quick look at the bracket shows that our semi final has the potential to be a USA vs Brazil in a championship contender deciding match!  I would argue this will be just as good exposure as getting to hold a few group matches for the World Cup of which could having varying degrees of relevance to the outcome of the tournament.

 

As much as Tepper gets (rightfully) criticized for his mismanaging of the Panthers.  This is an absolutely massive win for Charlotte that has potential to draw international tourism to Charlotte.

 

[rancenc]

Queen’s Cup Steeplechase event cancelled for 2024 as transition to new leadership stalls.

 

 

The Queen's Cup has been run since 2000 at a Mineral Springs site in Union County.

MELISSA KEY

By Erik Spanberg – Managing Editor, Charlotte Business Journal

Dec 7, 2023

The Queen’s Cup Steeplechase will not be run in 2024 due to uncertainty over who will manage the event into the future, CBJ has learned.

Event founders Bill and Carrington Price last summer negotiated a partnership between the steeplechase’s nonprofit board and another local nonprofit, Dream On 3, to operate the Queen’s Cup. In July, Dream On 3 and the Charlotte Steeplechase Foundation issued a press release touting a plan “to protect the event and preserve the love of horse racing while simultaneously benefitting a charitable organization.”..............................

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2023/12/07/queens-cup-steeplechase-bill-price-dream-on-3.html

 

[CLT2014]

Wells Fargo is ending its sponsorship of the Quail Hollow stop on the PGA tour. Unsurprising given WFC's cost cutting moves. They join Bank of America who is not continuing naming rights of the NFL/MLS stadium. 

https://www.nbcsports.com/golf/news/wells-fargo-ending-sponsorship-deal-with-pga-tour-event-in-charlotte-n-c