Metro Orlando Airport News

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Check this out:

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/O-and-D-Rank-202206.pdf

Busiest O&D airports in the US.  I didn't have time to convert the pdf to a jpeg.

Ending 12mos in June 2022, MCO is No.2 behind LAX.  Impressive.  Terminal C didn't open until September 2022.  And, since then, new routes have started for JetBlue, among other new routes for other airlines at the other older gates. I'd like to see this same chart this year.

Get atlantas official numbers. I don't think this is accurate. Their o&d is way off.... ie overcounted

[WAJAS]

14 hours ago, codypet said:

Yea the plan was always off to the side and not share a lobby or platfrom with BL.  That might change in the future, but this is the plan I've seen tossed around since 2013.  I've been through the reasons why it was that way in the past, but what makes me ponder is all that bridge for the BL tracks heading south to the maintenance building.

14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

so the Sunrail platform will be opposite that drive-up to the Intermodal?  I thought they said that the Intermodal was being built to be able to house three train systems?  And that the Sunrail space would be where dirt currently is way underneath between BL and the APM.

Sunrail's platform height is different from Brightline's, which requires them to use different platforms. This is also why Trirail has their own platforms at MiamiCentral station in downtown Miami.

Brightline's station is able to expand from 2 platforms (current) to 4 platforms. The large bridge and mound is to support the two additional tracks leading to the 2 additional platforms in the future. 

10 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Does anyone know why Terminal A2 is missing a leg?  It's like 8 or 9 gates never got built.  I wonder why C was started before A was finished.

I asked this a while back. Apparently, its b/c adding that missing leg would result in a section of the terminal that is way newer than the rest (the bones of it).  That means it would end up being demolished farther from end-of-life as the whole airside terminal would be demolished at the same time, including the older legs. It made more sense to simple construct more of the Terminal C than fully-build out Terminal A/B due to that lost 'cost' from the earlier demolition. Also, political will and grants were in an unusually good place when Terminal C was getting its funding together, so they wanted to grasp at the opportunity as it presented itself.

[HankStrong]

5 hours ago, WAJAS said:

I asked this a while back. Apparently, its b/c adding that missing leg would result in a section of the terminal that is way newer than the rest (the bones of it).  That means it would end up being demolished farther from end-of-life as the whole airside terminal would be demolished at the same time, including the older legs. It made more sense to simple construct more of the Terminal C than fully-build out Terminal A/B due to that lost 'cost' from the earlier demolition. Also, political will and grants were in an unusually good place when Terminal C was getting its funding together, so they wanted to grasp at the opportunity as it presented itself.

That actually makes a lot of sense.  Thanks.

[codypet]

6 hours ago, WAJAS said:

Brightline's station is able to expand from 2 platforms (current) to 4 platforms. The large bridge and mound is to support the two additional tracks leading to the 2 additional platforms in the future. 

They can add a 4th track but they can't add any more platforms.    

I had mentioned the Sunrail platform height in the past several times.  One time I was told I was full of it, but that's truly the reason why Sunrail can't run on the BL tracks.  Now if they decided to use different passenger trains for the Sunshine Corridor, then its possible.  It would require a lot of coordination with BL and its ticketing.

[jrs2]

14 hours ago, shardoon said:

Get atlantas official numbers. I don't think this is accurate. Their o&d is way off.... ie overcounted

I find it odd that almost as many people fly to Atlanta as they do to Chicago thru O'Hare, and that Hartsfield O&D is on par with JFK, in a metro 4-5 times the size.  LAX makes perfect sense since LA is so huge.

I think Hartsfield does what MIA and PortMiami does ala fudging their numbers to stay atop rankings.

All that said, I will say this about Hartsfield...they've got a lot of gates.  So, just looking at the sheer number of terminal parking aprons and jetways kind of supports those numbers.  

That being said, I wonder how they count a connecting flight where the connection occurs  a few hours later or the next day.  I'd say they count them as both.  But at the end of the day...they do have 193 jetways ( I counted them myself).  But by 193, I mean that a double jetway that is meant to handle a jumbo jet (in a single parking apron) counts as one, not two.  And most of these terminals have the outline of the plane painted on the tarmac.

[shardoon]

23 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I find it odd that almost as many people fly to Atlanta as they do to Chicago thru O'Hare, and that Hartsfield O&D is on par with JFK, in a metro 4-5 times the size.  LAX makes perfect sense since LA is so huge.

I think Hartsfield does what MIA and PortMiami does ala fudging their numbers to stay atop rankings.

All that said, I will say this about Hartsfield...they've got a lot of gates.  So, just looking at the sheer number of terminal parking aprons and jetways kind of supports those numbers.  

That being said, I wonder how they count a connecting flight where the connection occurs  a few hours later or the next day.  I'd say they count them as both.  But at the end of the day...they do have 193 jetways ( I counted them myself).  But by 193, I mean that a double jetway that is meant to handle a jumbo jet (in a single parking apron) counts as one, not two.  And most of these terminals have the outline of the plane painted on the tarmac.

Here are the actual numbers, directly from their website. About 75% of all Atlanta's traffic is on Delta. Another 5% are international carriers getting people filtered to them by Sky Team Partners.  Me personally, I have actually been to Atlanta, the actual city, once in the past 10 years, and I actually drove there. However, I have been to the airport about 30 times in that same timespan....... usually flying Delta for a connection somewhere. 

So honestly, I think that third party graph is just the common statistical or journalistic error for Atlanta. Here are their real numbers for March in example. Outside of Atlanta being a major hub for Delta, the actual O&D pull for the city is a glorified Austin, Texas.

https://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/ATL_ATR_2303_rev.pdf

[jrs2]

So, would anyone here care to shed more light on a few things?   @codypet @WAJAS @HankStrong @shardoon  ...or anyone else

Gracias...

So, I posted below 4 shots; two from the north looking south and two from the south looking north.

1. is the gap on the outside of Sunrail's platforms between the platforms and the roof support posts enough of a gap for an extra track on either side?  And if so, from the north there's a gap (to the east of the east platform ), but from the south there are obstructions on the platforms on both sides.

2.  from the shot from the south looking north...that one shot is the sweet spot shot...it shows that "gap" to the right at ground level over the grass and under the building parallel to the BL platform.  Is that where a "Sunrail" CRT locomotive might otherwise go?

3. Also, if BL can expand from 2 tracks to 4 tracks (per question 1 above), where might those go?  Is it like I asked above? And is that bridge to the right I originally thought was the "Maglev" placeholder bridge infrastructure; but the more Iook at it, it appears to be a third BL track bridge.  Is that what it is?

[jrs2]

27 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Here are the actual numbers, directly from their website. About 75% of all Atlanta's traffic is on Delta. Another 5% are international carriers getting people filtered to them by Sky Team Partners.  Me personally, I have actually been to Atlanta, the actual city, once in the past 10 years, and I actually drove there. However, I have been to the airport about 30 times in that same timespan....... usually flying Delta for a connection somewhere. 

So honestly, I think that third party graph is just the common statistical or journalistic error for Atlanta. Here are their real numbers for March in example. Outside of Atlanta being a major hub for Delta, the actual O&D pull for the city is a glorified Austin, Texas.

https://www.atl.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/ATL_ATR_2303_rev.pdf

if you do the math, and use March as representative of any other month, and divide total passengers for March by 25% (since Delta takes up more than 74% of the total air traffic), and multiply that number by 12, they have around 25M non-Delta passengers.  How many Delta O&D flights might there be?  There can't possibly be that many.

[codypet]

BL additional tracks in red (elevated),  Sunrail station in blue (on the ground)

I'll add there's no plan to go to 4 tracks any time soon as you can see a railing on the east side of the platform for BL while the west side of the platform looks all but built out (with detectable warnings, and bridge built) and is just waiting for  tracks (Maybe opening when the Tampa leg starts)

Edited May 11, 2023 by codypet

[jrs2]

16 minutes ago, codypet said:

BL additional tracks in red (elevated),  Sunrail station in blue (on the ground). 

I'll add there's no plan to go to 4 tracks any time soon as you can see a railing on the east side of the platform for BL while the west side of the platform looks all but built out (with detectable warnings, and bridge built) and is just waiting for  tracks (Maybe opening when the Tampa leg starts)

gotcha.  for a minute I thought Sunrail might go on the other side of the drive-up.  but that's a good location so long as the platform is covered.

There already is an escalator down (past the BL entrance inside) but its up over that cut-out (where Sunrail would pass thru underneath) and descends down to the drive-up at the edge of the terminal.  Wouldn't there have to be something closer, or would they make you go out the front door by the drive-up and walk back around the corner to get to the Sunrail platform?

Edited May 11, 2023 by jrs2

[shardoon]

41 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

if you do the math, and use March as representative of any other month, and divide total passengers for March by 25% (since Delta takes up more than 74% of the total air traffic), and multiply that number by 12, they have around 25M non-Delta passengers.  How many Delta O&D flights might there be?  There can't possibly be that many.

Correct, which is why I think this graph the OIA used in first 6 months of 2022 showing 18 million O&D for Atlanta completely inaccurate. the source for that graph was US DOT T100 (whatever that is) and Airline Data Inc......... something is off......using realistic numbers directly from Atlanta is more accurate. 

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/O-and-D-Rank-202206.pdf

The following really shows how Atlanta's traffic numbers are wrong. 

http://www.stlannex.com/blogs_2020/blog_airport_connections

Edited May 11, 2023 by shardoon

[codypet]

15 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

gotcha.  for a minute I thought Sunrail might go on the other side of the drive-up.  but that's a good location so long as the platform is covered.

There already is an escalator down (past the BL entrance inside) but its up over that cut-out (where Sunrail would pass thru underneath) and descends down to the drive-up at the edge of the terminal.  Wouldn't there have to be something closer, or would they make you go out the front door by the drive-up and walk back around the corner to get to the Sunrail platform?

I suspect since the drive up is intended for taxi's buses, and drop offs that Sunrail using the same escalator just works out fine.  In fact I could see the Sunrail people entering the ITF from that doorway facing south.  Tracks go under the building, platform just dead ends to that door so you can enter the building.

Edited May 11, 2023 by codypet

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

I suspect since the drive up is intended for taxi's buses, and drop offs that Sunrail using the same escalator just works out fine.  In fact I could see the Sunrail people entering the ITF from that doorway facing south.  Tracks go under the building, platform just dead ends to that door so you can enter the building.

I totally missed that door on the south wall with the white canopy.  I kept focusing on the door on the east wall facing the drive-up.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

Correct, which is why I think this graph the OIA used in first 6 months of 2022 showing 18 million O&D for Atlanta completely inaccurate. the source for that graph was US DOT T100 (whatever that is) and Airline Data Inc......... something is off......using realistic numbers directly from Atlanta is more accurate. 

https://orlandoairports.net/site/uploads/O-and-D-Rank-202206.pdf

The following really shows how Atlanta's traffic numbers are wrong. 

http://www.stlannex.com/blogs_2020/blog_airport_connections

" If we removed all connecting passengers and only looked O&D Passengers for an airport, LAX (plus ORD, DEN, LAS, and MCO) passes ATL as serving the most domestic passengers."

(2018 numbers)

[aent]

8 hours ago, codypet said:

They can add a 4th track but they can't add any more platforms.    

I had mentioned the Sunrail platform height in the past several times.  One time I was told I was full of it, but that's truly the reason why Sunrail can't run on the BL tracks.  Now if they decided to use different passenger trains for the Sunshine Corridor, then its possible.  It would require a lot of coordination with BL and its ticketing.

Sunrail can run on a Brightline tracks, they cannot use Brightline stations/platforms. Brightline has built most of its stations with 2 platform heights (and the same tracks) to be able to accommodate the Brightline. It just stops at a different point in the station, that is fenced separately.

[HankStrong]

20 hours ago, codypet said:

BL additional tracks in red (elevated),  Sunrail station in blue (on the ground)

I'll add there's no plan to go to 4 tracks any time soon as you can see a railing on the east side of the platform for BL while the west side of the platform looks all but built out (with detectable warnings, and bridge built) and is just waiting for  tracks (Maybe opening when the Tampa leg starts)

It's interesting to note, too, that if you follow the European train model layout of lengthening your stations to increase capacity they also left a ton of room heading South in the grass (North of the vehicle traffic exit lanes)  to widen the tracks from the eventual 4 to 6 or 8 or even 10 (only based on a finger measurement on the screen) tracks.  That doesn't even include SunRail tracks.

[codypet]

Where? I'm not visualizing it.  Are you talking east and west of the existing tracks?  Or south of the current station?

[shardoon]

Just want to make a comment about OIA parking. I'm on their website and it lists that all parking garages are full. It's early May, it it's obviously not a holiday time. In fact, it should be one of the more quite times, but obviously it isn't for OIA. They are currently expanding those extra 4 gates and plans are starting to role for architects for phase 2. Since OIA does not have a stand alone rental car facility like many airports are moving towards, we lose a lot of garage space to rental cars. When is the earliest that we can expect immediate contruction on more garage parking in the C terminal. It would seem like the garages would be self sufficient to pay for themselves at close to 20 bucks a day. Why not start garage expansion now? We need it. 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Where? I'm not visualizing it.  Are you talking east and west of the existing tracks?  Or south of the current station?

I think he's talking about the grass easement that is between the building and the vehicle exit lanes to the south.  you see the two tracks taper down to one track prior to reaching there en route to the Maintenance Facility.  To the north of the station, not so much, but to the south, they could hypothetically put an expanded mini "rail yard" of tracks that taper down before entering the platform area...  @HankStrong

19 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Just want to make a comment about OIA parking. I'm on their website and it lists that all parking garages are full. It's early May, it it's obviously not a holiday time. In fact, it should be one of the more quite times, but obviously it isn't for OIA. They are currently expanding those extra 4 gates and plans are starting to role for architects for phase 2. Since OIA does not have a stand alone rental car facility like many airports are moving towards, we lose a lot of garage space to rental cars. When is the earliest that we can expect immediate contruction on more garage parking in the C terminal. It would seem like the garages would be self sufficient to pay for themselves at close to 20 bucks a day. Why not start garage expansion now? We need it. 

on the signs too, they say they're full (but they're not really...) I just walked a buddy thru finding last minute parking at TTP and told him to ignore the signs and just go to Level 8 or above.   He found a space and made his flight.

Look at one of those diagrams I posted.  It color codes to show what gets built and in which phase...  I think there's one...  yeah, I checked.  it looks like Phase 2 timing.  It can cost about $50-60 cab ride or Uber to MCO each way in lieu of parking there.  For a 3 day parking fee, it's roughly that price.  But two ways with a cab is double that price.  But if you leave for a week it evens out and if longer than a week, it's more cost effective to cab it.  I think it's $17.99/day.  

But I agree they should expand the garages before the terminal.  If you recall, there was pushback when they began building the Intermodal Center with parking b/c they said they had a surplus of parking...but that was several years ago.

Edited May 12, 2023 by jrs2

[AndyPok1]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:35 PM, jrs2 said:

that is utterly ridiculous. Then DFW, O'Hare, and Hartsfield aren't as busy as they say they are, and haven't been all these years.

 

23 hours ago, jrs2 said:

if you do the math, and use March as representative of any other month, and divide total passengers for March by 25% (since Delta takes up more than 74% of the total air traffic), and multiply that number by 12, they have around 25M non-Delta passengers.  How many Delta O&D flights might there be?  There can't possibly be that many.

I think you might be going too far in this concept.  Yes MCO is more O&D heavy than the major airports.  That affects us as locals because of parking, TSA, etc.  However, saying that DFW/ORD/ATL aren't busy is silly.  The concourses and restaurants and other things are primarily what I think about when talking about a given airport, not its landside facilities.  Every one of those connections is a person occupying space in the terminal.

ATL is the 8th biggest metro in the US, roughly the same size as Miami, Philly, DC.  PLUS, they are the *ONLY* option for miles and miles and miles.  DC has BWI.  MIA has FLL.  If you live within 100 miles, you're probably driving to Atlanta to arrive/depart from.  There are plenty of people getting off in ATL as a final destination on an MCO-ATL-PIT flight.

 

5 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Just want to make a comment about OIA parking. I'm on their website and it lists that all parking garages are full. It's early May, it it's obviously not a holiday time. In fact, it should be one of the more quite times, but obviously it isn't for OIA. They are currently expanding those extra 4 gates and plans are starting to role for architects for phase 2. Since OIA does not have a stand alone rental car facility like many airports are moving towards, we lose a lot of garage space to rental cars. When is the earliest that we can expect immediate contruction on more garage parking in the C terminal. It would seem like the garages would be self sufficient to pay for themselves at close to 20 bucks a day. Why not start garage expansion now? We need it. 

Definitely need more garages, and I'm constantly confounded by how they are perpetually full.  I've heard that people using Turo are actually eating up a lot of garage spaces but have no way of confirming.

[codypet]

7 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

 

I think you might be going too far in this concept.  Yes MCO is more O&D heavy than the major airports.  That affects us as locals because of parking, TSA, etc.  However, saying that DFW/ORD/ATL aren't busy is silly.  The concourses and restaurants and other things are primarily what I think about when talking about a given airport, not its landside facilities.  Every one of those connections is a person occupying space in the terminal.

ATL is the 8th biggest metro in the US, roughly the same size as Miami, Philly, DC.  PLUS, they are the *ONLY* option for miles and miles and miles.  DC has BWI.  MIA has FLL.  If you live within 100 miles, you're probably driving to Atlanta to arrive/depart from.  There are plenty of people getting off in ATL as a final destination on an MCO-ATL-PIT flight.

 

Definitely need more garages, and I'm constantly confounded by how they are perpetually full.  I've heard that people using Turo are actually eating up a lot of garage spaces but have no way of confirming.

That makes total sense.

14 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I think he's talking about the grass easement that is between the building and the vehicle exit lanes to the south.  you see the two tracks taper down to one track prior to reaching there en route to the Maintenance Facility.  To the north of the station, not so much, but to the south, they could hypothetically put an expanded mini "rail yard" of tracks that taper down before entering the platform area...  @HankStrong

on the signs too, they say they're full (but they're not really...) I just walked a buddy thru finding last minute parking at TTP and told him to ignore the signs and just go to Level 8 or above.   He found a space and made his flight.

Look at one of those diagrams I posted.  It color codes to show what gets built and in which phase...  I think there's one...  yeah, I checked.  it looks like Phase 2 timing.  It can cost about $50-60 cab ride or Uber to MCO each way in lieu of parking there.  For a 3 day parking fee, it's roughly that price.  But two ways with a cab is double that price.  But if you leave for a week it evens out and if longer than a week, it's more cost effective to cab it.  I think it's $17.99/day.  

But I agree they should expand the garages before the terminal.  If you recall, there was pushback when they began building the Intermodal Center with parking b/c they said they had a surplus of parking...but that was several years ago.

There are lots being planned to be complete by the end of this year I believe.   I mean as is, Brightline hasn't started running and where are those cars supposed to park?  This makes a huge case for the Sunrail Airport link.  

I wish there was a way to run a BL shuttle for the time being until something more permanent came along.  Of course, that would require Sunrail to be running more frequently too.  But we're at critical mass here with cars at the airport.  I used to Uber/Lyft to the airport, but going to the airport is now $25-30 from downtown, and I've landed at the airport some times and had seen $96 rides home on Uber and Lyft.  Thankfully I had enough of a functioning brain to walk to the taxi stand and get a $30 taxi home.  Since then I've used Fastpark which also has free charging for EV's. 

[jrs2]

10 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

 

I think you might be going too far in this concept.  Yes MCO is more O&D heavy than the major airports.  That affects us as locals because of parking, TSA, etc.  However, saying that DFW/ORD/ATL aren't busy is silly.  The concourses and restaurants and other things are primarily what I think about when talking about a given airport, not its landside facilities.  Every one of those connections is a person occupying space in the terminal.

ATL is the 8th biggest metro in the US, roughly the same size as Miami, Philly, DC.  PLUS, they are the *ONLY* option for miles and miles and miles.  DC has BWI.  MIA has FLL.  If you live within 100 miles, you're probably driving to Atlanta to arrive/depart from.  There are plenty of people getting off in ATL as a final destination on an MCO-ATL-PIT flight.

 

Definitely need more garages, and I'm constantly confounded by how they are perpetually full.  I've heard that people using Turo are actually eating up a lot of garage spaces but have no way of confirming.

Yeah, since that post I made above, we already flushed that issue out. 

My point originally was how a family of 4 in MIA counted as 16 with their overall numbers.  I have connected thru DFW and ATL plenty of times, flown to O'Hare, etc., and yes, each of their concourses are a zoo of people.  I even posted that notwithstanding inflated numbers, they (ATL) do have 193 gates/parking aprons and O'Hare has 198. 

So, no one ever said that they weren't busy, or very busy, rather, that they were inflating their numbers on connecting flights.  The Miami Intl example: A family of 4 should at most count as 8, 4 arriving and 4 departing.  But instead they count the "return flight" ala 2 flights arriving and 2 flights departing, like it is two trips to and fro with City of Atlanta, for example, being the "destination" when it's not.  But what they do instead is that they count ATL's airside gate as the "destination" if this were an O&D analysis.    I don't know that I agree with them doing that because it's still the same 4 people in that family of 4 on the same trip where they are forced to connect through Hartsfield (for example).   But what they are doing is counting it as two full trips by that same family of 4; but that second "trip" is artificially created by, say, Delta, or American, or United.

Maybe it's fair to do that, but, Orlando to Paris and then Paris to Orlando has now turned into Orlando to ATL, ATL to Paris, Paris to ATL, and ATL to Orlando, or 4 flights.   Not sure but it doesn't seem right.

[AndyPok1]

27 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Yeah, since that post I made above, we already flushed that issue out. 

My point originally was how a family of 4 in MIA counted as 16 with their overall numbers.  I have connected thru DFW and ATL plenty of times, flown to O'Hare, etc., and yes, each of their concourses are a zoo of people.  I even posted that notwithstanding inflated numbers, they (ATL) do have 193 gates/parking aprons and O'Hare has 198. 

So, no one ever said that they weren't busy, or very busy, rather, that they were inflating their numbers on connecting flights.  The Miami Intl example: A family of 4 should at most count as 8, 4 arriving and 4 departing.  But instead they count the "return flight" ala 2 flights arriving and 2 flights departing, like it is two trips to and fro with City of Atlanta, for example, being the "destination" when it's not.  But what they do instead is that they count ATL's airside gate as the "destination" if this were an O&D analysis.    I don't know that I agree with them doing that because it's still the same 4 people in that family of 4 on the same trip where they are forced to connect through Hartsfield (for example).   But what they are doing is counting it as two full trips by that same family of 4; but that second "trip" is artificially created by, say, Delta, or American, or United.

Maybe it's fair to do that, but, Orlando to Paris and then Paris to Orlando has now turned into Orlando to ATL, ATL to Paris, Paris to ATL, and ATL to Orlando, or 4 flights.   Not sure but it doesn't seem right.

I supposed that's reasonable.  But also that's industry standard of how its counted.

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Yeah, since that post I made above, we already flushed that issue out. 

My point originally was how a family of 4 in MIA counted as 16 with their overall numbers.  I have connected thru DFW and ATL plenty of times, flown to O'Hare, etc., and yes, each of their concourses are a zoo of people.  I even posted that notwithstanding inflated numbers, they (ATL) do have 193 gates/parking aprons and O'Hare has 198. 

So, no one ever said that they weren't busy, or very busy, rather, that they were inflating their numbers on connecting flights.  The Miami Intl example: A family of 4 should at most count as 8, 4 arriving and 4 departing.  But instead they count the "return flight" ala 2 flights arriving and 2 flights departing, like it is two trips to and fro with City of Atlanta, for example, being the "destination" when it's not.  But what they do instead is that they count ATL's airside gate as the "destination" if this were an O&D analysis.    I don't know that I agree with them doing that because it's still the same 4 people in that family of 4 on the same trip where they are forced to connect through Hartsfield (for example).   But what they are doing is counting it as two full trips by that same family of 4; but that second "trip" is artificially created by, say, Delta, or American, or United.

Maybe it's fair to do that, but, Orlando to Paris and then Paris to Orlando has now turned into Orlando to ATL, ATL to Paris, Paris to ATL, and ATL to Orlando, or 4 flights.   Not sure but it doesn't seem right.

Yep, so if I am the only traveler going to Paris, the following airports get logged passenger counts:

MCO 1 for outbound.

Atlanta 1 for arrival to make connection

Atlanta 1 for departure connection

Paris 1 for Arrival

Spend a week in Paris business or pleasure. 

Paris 1 for departure

Atlanta 1 for arrival connection

Atlanta 1 for departure connection

Orlando 1 for arrival

-----------------------------------------

Add that all up and the passenger counts for 1 passenger is:

MCO 2, Atlanta 4, Paris 2. The real stress on the airport requiring a lot of staff, ie ticketing, TSA, parking, rental car services, etc etc is at MCO and Paris.

What really happened in Atlanta? Me walking off the plane, going to a lounge for 1-2 hours, and then getting on another plane. Someone also moves my bag from plane A to plane B. 

Yet, Atlanta logs 4 passengers out of this trip and the real airports that had the most use from me using their facilities were MCO and Paris. 

------------------------------------------

However, I do feel down the line, with how terminal C and eventually D is set to grow, we will become more of a international hub for the likes of Jetblue, Spirit, and Frontier (before merger). This will potentially blossom our passenger counts as we are huge with O&D, but will start double logging all those connections as well.

[jrs2]

35 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Yep, so if I am the only traveler going to Paris, the following airports get logged passenger counts:

MCO 1 for outbound.

Atlanta 1 for arrival to make connection

Atlanta 1 for departure connection

Paris 1 for Arrival

Spend a week in Paris business or pleasure. 

Paris 1 for departure

Atlanta 1 for arrival connection

Atlanta 1 for departure connection

Orlando 1 for arrival

-----------------------------------------

Add that all up and the passenger counts for 1 passenger is:

MCO 2, Atlanta 4, Paris 2. The real stress on the airport requiring a lot of staff, ie ticketing, TSA, parking, rental car services, etc etc is at MCO and Paris.

What really happened in Atlanta? Me walking off the plane, going to a lounge for 1-2 hours, and then getting on another plane. Someone also moves my bag from plane A to plane B. 

Yet, Atlanta logs 4 passengers out of this trip and the real airports that had the most use from me using their facilities were MCO and Paris. 

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However, I do feel down the line, with how terminal C and eventually D is set to grow, we will become more of a international hub for the likes of Jetblue, Spirit, and Frontier (before merger). This will potentially blossom our passenger counts as we are huge with O&D, but will start double logging all those connections as well.

Yeah, I see that in that example. 

Do these connecting hubs get more federal money than other O&D airports because of their sheer numbers by chance? Is that what this is about?  I mean you fly Spirit from LaGuardia to MCO direct but if its Delta, you have to connect.  Why?  It's BS.  I mean, think about it.  Location: Is O'Hare central?  Atlanta isn't.  Dallas might be.  Yet we have three airlines with their major hubs in their respective HQ cities.  Even FedEx's major terminal is in Memphis with its HQ.  Hub location is not necessarily geographically dictated.  I remember a conversation with people from Birmingham griping why Delta chose ATL as their hub when Birmingham was more centrally located.  There's got to be other factors involved other than, say, cost of operations.  It's gotta be about major $$$; and I don't mean convenience of maintenance hangers etc.