MLS in Charlotte - 2021

[Dcarnys]

MLS sounds awesome and frankly from what I've read, most opposed are opposed because of reasons not nessicarily related to the money (Eastland hard-liners, etc). However, I can't help but feel that Charlotteis getting shafted. If Bruton Smith is willing to play ball with the city and county and will work with them to complete a good proposal before Jan 31, awesome! However, I'm not %100 sure Bruton Smith is willing to negotiate a better deal. He has a history of trying to get the public to build for him and I think this was a play by him to line his pockets. I just hope of it doesn't work there's another chance in the future however it doesn't seem like there is. This project is the epitome of "damned if you do, damned if you don't".

[urbanlover568]

Roberts would be stupid to allow this. And in a election year, I can't see this going through. Bruton Smith is a joke and abused Concord to get what he wanted and in the end had to take down part of his track seating and drastically cut down seats because of lax attendance and revenue. Look to this and you will see the future of the MLS stadium. And have we all not forgotten about house bill 2?! This week feels like the twilight zone with #alternativefacts and this. 

[Dcarnys]

The observer just posted this article about the Independence. Now I'm convinced Bruton Smith is just looking for a payday from the city. 

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128763024.html

[KJHburg]

This is interesting the Memorial Stadium site was given as a gift to the city to be used as public park. http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/document-from-1904-says-memorial-stadium-land-should-be-public-park/488014130

[SgtCampsalot]

52 minutes ago, Dcarnys said:

The observer just posted this article about the Independence. Now I'm convinced Bruton Smith is just looking for a payday from the city. 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128763024.html

That leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

[Guest]

Half my anger was in how quick the county seemingly got on its knees for the stadium deal and putting so much public money on the line.

Hypothetically, if we can get a better deal where the city gets a realistic return on investment; I'll give it lukewarm support. Right now, it's padding the pocket of Mr. moneybags. We've done it too many times.

By the looks of it though, that's not going to happen. It all dies Friday.

Then, we can move on and look at better ways to build wealth for the community.

Edited January 26, 2017 by mazman34340

[atlrvr]

Just random observation from a life-long Charlottean.

There was a point in time, where the opportunity to compete for big-league or "world class" items were a galvanizing force in the community that was really unifying.

Lately, probably at least in part due to NASCAR HOF, but maybe more broadly that the city is now such predominantly transplant, the near universal enthusiasm for these endeavors have faded.

It's probably worth looking at the big banks (now one is SF based, the other has a Boston-based CEO), that used to underwrite a lot of these pursuits.

It's probably worth noting that city council/county commissioners have become both more diversified (fine in of itself), but also a lot more partisan and polarized.

I guess it's a bit sad for me, as the unifying feeling of people who grew up here in the 70's/80's, was always expecting Charlotte to punch above it's weight.  Now maybe we've made it (I guess), and is disappointing to be feeling mired in "big city" problems.  Atlanta is the city Charlotteans love to hate, but I envy that they never lost their chip on their shoulder, and are constantly striving to still punch above their weight.  We've lost a little bit of that.

 

[SgtCampsalot]

9 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

Atlanta is the city Charlotteans love to hate, but I envy that they never lost their chip on their shoulder, and are constantly striving to still punch above their weight.  We've lost a little bit of that.

 

Interesting point. Could it be the juxtaposition of big-city transplants with our small town history? Even though that history was always lined with a desire to be bigger and better... perhaps this a natural point of contraction- almost as if we're needing to take a breather in the middle of a long marathon- that will result in a truly moderating effect on our city's quality of life (rather than over extending ourselves)?

Devil's advocate: one could also see that classic Charlottean-Striving as an insecurity? I remember a conversation as a young kid at a local [men's fraternity club? I forget...] where men were saying Charlotte needs to get off its major insecurity kick. Though that could have just been natural small town traditionalism clashing with city ambitions. Though even if so, there's something to be said about it.

Edited January 26, 2017 by SgtCampsalot

[swh1972]

11 hours ago, Dcarnys said:

The observer just posted this article about the Independence. Now I'm convinced Bruton Smith is just looking for a payday from the city. 

 

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article128763024.html

McPhilliamy basically wanted the same thing (Public Funding - $16 million vs. $87 million).  The reality is that his plan would result in the City and County renovating Memorial Stadium to accommodate a Minor League Soccer team.  If the Smith's broke the law with disclosing the plans to the MLS, I'm sure he can seek restitution through the courts, but I agree that it seems slimy, but that's par for the course these days, isn't it.

[asthasr]

32 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

I guess it's a bit sad for me, as the unifying feeling of people who grew up here in the 70's/80's, was always expecting Charlotte to punch above it's weight.  Now maybe we've made it (I guess), and is disappointing to be feeling mired in "big city" problems.  Atlanta is the city Charlotteans love to hate, but I envy that they never lost their chip on their shoulder, and are constantly striving to still punch above their weight.  We've lost a little bit of that.

As someone who's relocated to Charlotte (despite being a native of a nearby area and living in NC my whole life), I don't think Charlotte has lost that. Instead, I think that we have reached a point where we can look and see mistakes that have been made here and elsewhere, and take a more measured approach to what we do, instead of rushing into large public outlays for no reason. I've seen many pro sports franchises extort the city, county, and state where they live, and it simply makes no sense; instead of "punching above our weight" it feels like lining up to get punched. I mean, at this point NFL stadiums are judged to be "obsolete" after twenty years. Twenty years! We spend tens of millions of dollars of taxpayer money to subsidize these profitable businesses, and then are extorted to pay for another one after twenty years? It's asinine.

I'll be against the inevitable Panthers extortion, and I'll be against the inevitable Hornets extortion. I simply don't believe that the benefits of having pro sports in a city outweigh the costs of pouring money into private pockets. I'd much rather see us spend money on extending our transit systems, improving public parks, libraries, utilities, and schools.

I know that's not possible with the city's tourism fund money, but the county's money is coming from my property taxes. I don't want to pay taxes to support a business that I can't even patronize at a discount.

[CLT2014]

"For the sake of debate let us overlook that time constraints have limited this proposal to less than two hours of diligent consideration by our board with incomplete data and significant details missing. Ignore that the entire process from introduction to final vote will cover a mere 23 days with pubic input relegated to an inconvenient afternoon policy meeting rather than a well-publicized dedicated and televised evening time slot. Disregard the arrogance of MLS demanding to their advantage, a site location within the most valuable geography in the county. Putting this aside let us ponder the proposal as presented.

For a bargain price of $43.75 million, the county can acquire a purpose built stadium worth $200 million and a pro soccer team that returns no revenue from naming rights (we must waive our current naming guidelines), no revenue from ticket sales, concessions, parking, or advertising. We will loan $75 million to one of the wealthiest families in America at rates lower than any small business can acquire and be forced to escrow hundreds of thousands to maintain an asset to the level required by the team. Unfortunately our bargain requires we bulldoze yet another historic structure because doing so is easier than creatively re-purposing the one we have and regrettably history has shown what will take its place will most likely be obsolete before it is paid for.

Does this project increase economic development? Little if any. Does it enhance a fragile neighborhood? Hardly. Does it offer magnificent financial returns? No, we break even at best. Does it conform to a long-term master plan, fill a gap in adult or youth recreation needs, provide long-term jobs, build community, enhance our green-space, no, no, no, no and no.

Is a $75 million dollar loan to a billionaire more prudent than a fund to encourage small business growth? Is $50 million for a private use stadium better than completing long delayed parks and promised regional recreation centers? Is fast tracking yet another “special interest” project fair to those patiently waiting their turn?

In the end, this project offers incentives to those who do not need them and does so without real and meaningful public involvement. It doesn’t offer opportunity for competing ideas, alternatives or participants and does so at a head-spinning pace. Only speculators or fools invest this much this fast.

It is my job to protect the taxpayer from each, not transform them into either."

 

- Jim Puckett -  Mecklenburg County Board of Commissioners

Edited January 26, 2017 by CLT2014

[Missmylab4]

Everyone  keeps talking about what else would be a better use of the money. I just wanted to clarify the $80 million we're all talking about isn't going to be used on schools, streetcar, etc if we don't vote "Yes" for the MLS team. It will continue to not be used by the county/city. This isn't we vote no to MLS and we get phase 3/higher teacher pay/more parks etc. 

[SouthEndCLT811]

County passes 5-3 (Bill James couldn't vote over phone but was against) to move forward with funding.

Edited January 26, 2017 by SouthEndCLT811

[swh1972]

I believe the vote just passed the County, 5-4...  Did I hear that right?

 

[CLT2014]

3 minutes ago, Missmylab4 said:

Everyone  keeps talking about what else would be a better use of the money. I just wanted to clarify the $80 million we're all talking about isn't going to be used on schools, streetcar, etc if we don't vote "Yes" for the MLS team. It will continue to not be used by the county/city. This isn't we vote no to MLS and we get phase 3/higher teacher pay/more parks etc. 

So your saying the county isn't fully using property tax dollars today? Then they should give a tax break if they are rolling in cash and make Mecklenburg taxes lower to compete with surrounding counties. 

Edited January 26, 2017 by CLT2014

[asthasr]

I look forward to campaigning against the people who voted for this.

[atlrvr]

I look forward to Jim Puckett if this doesn't pass the city to put forward a proposal to establish at $75mm small business incubator fund like he suggested.  I would support that as well.

[michaelef]

City just made this announcement. 

 

[CLT704]

Well, no MLS for us.

[swh1972]

I wonder if they didn't have the votes to pass it.  Seems strange that they would announce that they would meet tomorrow pending approval by the County, but once the County approved, they backed off.

[SouthEndCLT811]

Sadly this debacle may not be over yet.  Smith's could submit bid and front the $44M they asked from the city.

 

[InSouthPark]

Well...Burton can pony up the extra 45 million out of his back pocket or it looks like this is dead deal.  Lets see how much he really wants it.  My guess is he looking for a "great deal" and easy return on investment and figured everyone would bend over backwards to accommodate.  I really doubt he wants the team if it isn't a guaranteed money maker.  Guess we will see.  Would be a shame to lose the chance but maybe they go back to the drawing board and hope they only expand 2 teams this go round and add the other two at a later date.

[RaleighHeelsfan]

Do you really think Charlotte and Raleigh can get a team? If Charlotte does not get it now Raleigh will. So you better be hoping he fronts that money!

 

8 minutes ago, InSouthPark said:

Well...Burton can pony up the extra 45 million out of his back pocket or it looks like this is dead deal.  Lets see how much he really wants it.  My guess is he looking for a "great deal" and easy return on investment and figured everyone would bend over backwards to accommodate.  I really doubt he wants the team if it isn't a guaranteed money maker.  Guess we will see.  Would be a shame to lose the chance but maybe they go back to the drawing board and hope they only expand 2 teams this go round and add the other two at a later date.

 

[CLT2014]

14 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This is interesting the Memorial Stadium site was given as a gift to the city to be used as public park. http://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/document-from-1904-says-memorial-stadium-land-should-be-public-park/488014130

Does anybody know what the process would be to getting a deed to a property like this over-turned so the site is no longer a public park?

[mad_park]

Any chance the Smiths propose building it up at the speedway property? They can say they tried to work w/ the city and it didn't work out.