Independence Corridor

[CTiger]

This building is a perfect metaphor for Independence.  Is it a highway?  Is it a street?  Is it a restaurant?  Is it a billboard?  Nobody knows!

[AltNative]

When you think it can't get any worse it does--the patio is now an enclosed cage under the footprint of the billboard. Who's idea was this? The intern?

 

[Nathan2]

On what planet do they think people are going to want to go out on that patio? 

[kayman]

I've seen much worse designed patios in even more unbearable locations. 

[Desert Power]

Someone remind me the story behind the unused bus lanes in the middle of Independence? I don't think I've ever seen a vehicles on them, surely they could get put to some use?

[TCLT]

9 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Someone remind me the story behind the unused bus lanes in the middle of Independence? I don't think I've ever seen a vehicles on them, surely they could get put to some use?

The Hawthorne Lane bridge support is right in the middle of the lanes so they’re no longer usable. 
Streetview
 

[Desert Power]

Thanks. Not sure why that means the whole thing is unusable though. What a waste.

[TCLT]

19 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Thanks. Not sure why that means the whole thing is unusable though. What a waste.

That's the only entrance/exit point. 

The bus lanes are to be replaced by express lanes though, but there's currently no funding or timeline for the project.

[Desert Power]

51 minutes ago, TCLT said:

That's the only entrance/exit point. 

The bus lanes are to be replaced by express lanes though, but there's currently no funding or timeline for the project.

Makes sense. That is what I was thinking: an express lane concept where traffic is only going one direction at a time.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Desert Power

[TCLT]

The Independence Blvd express lanes projects are included in the 2024-2033 NCDOT STIP. The portion between I277 and Idlewild Road is covered by project U-6103 and Idlewild Road to I485 is covered by project U-2509 which is then split up into several sub-projects. 

U-6103 is funded and scheduled to begin ROW acquisition in 2025. Construction to start in 2028. So realistically, the current bus lanes could become usable express lanes in about a decade.

U-2509 begins with intersection grade separation, local road improvements, and interchange projects with ROW acquisition in 2024 and construction in 2028. Initial segment of express lanes between Idlewild Road and Wallace Lane will have start of ROW acquisition in 2025 and construction in 2028 in parallel with the intersection and interchange construction. Remaining segments of express lanes east to I485 are not currently fully funded.

 

[Nathan2]

On 6/8/2023 at 11:57 AM, TCLT said:

The Independence Blvd express lanes projects are included in the 2024-2033 NCDOT STIP. The portion between I277 and Idlewild Road is covered by project U-6103 and Idlewild Road to I485 is covered by project U-2509 which is then split up into several sub-projects. 

U-6103 is funded and scheduled to begin ROW acquisition in 2025. Construction to start in 2028. So realistically, the current bus lanes could become usable express lanes in about a decade.

U-2509 begins with intersection grade separation, local road improvements, and interchange projects with ROW acquisition in 2024 and construction in 2028. Initial segment of express lanes between Idlewild Road and Wallace Lane will have start of ROW acquisition in 2025 and construction in 2028 in parallel with the intersection and interchange construction. Remaining segments of express lanes east to I485 are not currently fully funded.

 

NCDOT is never going to learn. Throwing that much money at independence is not going to solve its problems. The problem is that this road was ever allowed to turn into the monstrosity that it is today. By the time this thing gets off the ground its going to cost north of $300 million. I know the state doesn't allow it but there really needs to be studies done on these projects to prove that the money spent is actually worth it. 

[lit]

12 hours ago, Nathan2 said:

NCDOT is never going to learn. Throwing that much money at independence is not going to solve its problems. The problem is that this road was ever allowed to turn into the monstrosity that it is today. By the time this thing gets off the ground its going to cost north of $300 million. I know the state doesn't allow it but there really needs to be studies done on these projects to prove that the money spent is actually worth it. 

And are they going to have to re-do any of this in 10-20 years when they start construction on the Silver Line?

[Nathan2]

6 hours ago, lit said:

And are they going to have to re-do any of this in 10-20 years when they start construction on the Silver Line?

Knowing CATS, I doubt they have had much conversation with NCDOT. 

[TCLT]

36 minutes ago, Nathan2 said:

Knowing CATS, I doubt they have had much conversation with NCDOT. 

During all of the public meetings CATS has held about the silver line the project manager does say they are coordinating with NCDOT. Also, the project materials posted by NCDOT for the U-6103 and U-2509 projects do show the Silver Line corridor (this preliminary design map for example). All that being said, I'm optimistic that there is at least enough coordination going on that means no major reconstruction of anything done with Independence Blvd would be needed if the Silver Line ever actually gets built.

[TCLT]

Progress update on everyone’s favorite billding. 

[drawscape]

On 6/17/2023 at 7:07 AM, TCLT said:

Progress update on everyone’s favorite billding. 

I think I might be the only person in Charlotte that loves this building

[Matthew.Brendan]

I appreciate that it is certainly different and not just another generic building - and given the hellscape that is Independence Blvd I suppose it kinda fits right in.

[TCLT]

That was quick. The boards are already up. I can’t tell if they’re digital screens but they kinda look like they are? I’m sure there’s someone on here that can recognize the screen model on sight and say for sure. Also, does anyone know what those white things are on each corner? Security cameras? Something else?

And I don’t love this building but also don’t hate it. It’s stupid, but at least these developers are trying to put something with an amenity on independence. It could’ve just been a stand alone billboard so even a really poorly thought out concept is better than that. 

[RANYC]

11 hours ago, TCLT said:

That was quick. The boards are already up. I can’t tell if they’re digital screens but they kinda look like they are? I’m sure there’s someone on here that can recognize the screen model on sight and say for sure. Also, does anyone know what those white things are on each corner? Security cameras? Something else?

And I don’t love this building but also don’t hate it. It’s stupid, but at least these developers are trying to put something with an amenity on independence. It could’ve just been a stand alone billboard so even a really poorly thought out concept is better than that. 

What exactly is this?  Is it a violation of the sign ordinance?

[TCLT]

5 minutes ago, RANYC said:

What exactly is this?  Is it a violation of the sign ordinance?

The new building going up next to the Ervin tower. Those boards are massive and pretty close to the ground so it’ll definitely attract attention.

 

[TCLT]

3 hours ago, RANYC said:

What exactly is this?  Is it a violation of the sign ordinance?

After some digging, it looks like the sign ordinance for "outdoor advertising signs" (chapter13.11) permits electronic billboards with a maximum area of 380 square feet, but a permit is still required. The most recent permits filed show two electronic signs with an area of about 1,070 square feet each. Those permits do not appear to be fully approved. Those permit details are different from the plans used for the rezoning approval which show a very different building and attached signage. The reference rezoning petition is 2019-052. However, the revised site plan in the most recent approved plans do show what is currently being built. I would assume this means they got approval to deviate from the sign ordinance. But then there is a very interesting permit hold note related to signage on the project record (edit: this hold was created on June 8, 2023).

APPROVED-LDUR-2022-00020.pdf

Edited June 19, 2023 by TCLT

[CTiger]

21 hours ago, drawscape said:

I think I might be the only person in Charlotte that loves this building

I don't like it because I drive on Independence all the time and its already a horribly unsafe corridor.  Every little distraction makes it worse and giant illuminated billboards are about as bad of a distraction as you could have.  That building is directly in front of an intersection where you have cars merging on and off of a highway with no on/off ramp.   Nothing about Independence should be allowed and yet it seems like its getting worse.

[KJHburg]

here is what that redevelopment of the Ervin Building is supposed to look like.

https://www.wkdickson.com/our-projects/ervin-building-re-development/

[nicholas]

4 hours ago, CTiger said:

I don't like it because I drive on Independence all the time and its already a horribly unsafe corridor.  Every little distraction makes it worse and giant illuminated billboards are about as bad of a distraction as you could have.  That building is directly in front of an intersection where you have cars merging on and off of a highway with no on/off ramp.   Nothing about Independence should be allowed and yet it seems like its getting worse.

I'm not saying giant billboards won't be distracting to some degree, but "about as bad of a distraction as you could have"...?  Have you not witnessed any Charlotte drivers FaceTiming family/friends who are probably also driving?  Or the iPads that have taken over the dashboard of most modern cars?  Barring something unusually provocative, I doubt whatever ends up on the billboards will warrant more than a quick glance away from the in-car distractions consuming so many people these days.

[CTiger]

18 hours ago, nicholas said:

I'm not saying giant billboards won't be distracting to some degree, but "about as bad of a distraction as you could have"...?  Have you not witnessed any Charlotte drivers FaceTiming family/friends who are probably also driving?  Or the iPads that have taken over the dashboard of most modern cars?  Barring something unusually provocative, I doubt whatever ends up on the billboards will warrant more than a quick glance away from the in-car distractions consuming so many people these days.

I guess I meant about as bad of an external distraction as you could have.  Obviously the things Charlotte drivers are doing behind the wheel are more dangerous but the city or DOT can't fix that quite as easily.