Charlotte's Democratic National Convention

[jednc]

I've heard that the Democrats are going to try to crunch as many electoral votes as possible and that every electoral vote counts. Here are some of a few pro's for Charlotte;

North Carolina has 13 electoral votes

Missouri has 8 electoral votes

North Carolina has 15 electoral votes.

[Maddie2008]

It hasn't been on the big networks, but St. Louis is getting closer to the China Hub.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/article_b041f8ac-5187-5a23-b33c-ff711e962ffe.html

It's expected to start with about four flights between China and St. Louis in the first half of this year. It might turn into more flights later and talk is of St. Louis potentially being a stopover between the U.S. and South America. MidAmerica airport in Illinois already imports flowers from South America.

This could affect the DNC. Or it might now. It's hard to say. Either Obama could spin it positively and say that St. Louis is a good place for business and is working with the Chinese. Or it could look like a negative, because people are sensitive about China manufacturing most of our products. Though, to me, we will never match China in manufacturing, so we'd might as well try to make a profit.

This is the density of Charlotte 2,928.2/sq mi and St. Louis City 5,760.7/sq mi according to Wiki.

To be honest, I prefer the way St. Louis looks over the way Charlotte looks, but that's my preference. I'm more of an urban preservationist myself. St. Louis certainly has new construction, too, just not as much of it.

I tend to prefer the older street grid and the brick, but it's just what I'm used to. Charlotte is beautiful, too. St. Louis is grittier than Charlotte as well. St. Louis might have more issues. And St. Louis' city schools, like in most rust belt cities, are not that good. St. Louis crime was down 10% last year, though. The crime stats that are put out yearly are based on the city itself, which is 15% of the metro population, so the crime stats are not really indicative of the entire region. The city also varies a lot. It has good and bad neighborhoods.

Paul McKee has a plan to reinvest $8 billion into the North Side. He plans to build a lot of residences. Since Lambert Airport is just north of the city (the airport is owned and operated by the city but is on county soil), there's some talk that some of the vacant areas of north city and north county could be used for warehousing cargo between shipments.

Charlotte is beautiful. I guess I just prefer the old buildings more. The cities certainly look very different, though.

Here's a view of Downtown St. Louis. The green and white building behind where you would be standing if you were viewing this is the St. Louis Centre Mall. The plan right now is to turn it into a parking garage with a movie theater and street-facing retail. That renovation is ongoing. That walkway/skybridge thing over the street has been demolished. The building going up is the Roberts Tower, a luxury condominium tower. It's attached to the Mayfair Hotel, which the Roberts brothers own. It's not finished. The tall white building attached to the mall is Macy's. Only the first five floors (soon to be three) are used for the store. There are various plans as to how to use the rest of the building.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=St+Louis,+MO&aq=0&sll=38.627862,-90.196496&sspn=0.007041,0.013797&g=1109+Chestnut+St,+St+Louis,+St+Louis,+Missouri,+63101,+USA&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=St+Louis,+Missouri&ll=38.629041,-90.190909&spn=0.00704,0.013797&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=38.629055,-90.19099&panoid=48t7bfwLIloIY-U6nIoDNA&cbp=12,290.97,,0,-16.1

I wasn't sure what the best view of Charlotte would be, so here's a picture I found on Google

Both cities seem to have plenty of parking. What strikes me most how different they are. Charlotte looks new and clean while St. Louis looks gritty and old. Each are beautiful, just it different ways. Downtown St. Louis has seen a few billion in investment since 1999 and the Downtown population has increased. There are quite a few loft and apartment buildings. Still, much of St. Louis' charm, to me, is in its neighborhoods. I think to most people Charlotte has the nicer Downtown because new buildings just give the image of being fresher and more energizing. I think that's the way most people feel anyway.

This is the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Center YouTube Channel. The "St. Louis Destination" video kind of gives you an idea what St. Louis looks like. It mostly shows Downtown areas, but it shows other parts of the city as well.

http://www.youtube.com/user/stlouiscvc

As far as other attractions to see while the convention goers are there, I'm not sure which city has more to offer. St. Louis has a lot of attractions, but I'm not familiar enough with Charlotte to state anything about it. Each city has sports, museums, even a brewery. Both have concert venues. Does Charlotte have a zoo? I've noticed they have a bird sanctuary. It would be neat to visit and Charlotte and see what it has to offer. Our planned trip for this summer is to KC, though.

The cultures are different. Of course, that may just be city vs. rural differences. I live in Southeast Missouri. It's very rural. NASCAR is somewhat popular, though nothing like in the south. Hunting is very common. Churches are everywhere but I have been told that my area is more secular than the deep south. The rural areas tend to be Republican and the cities and some suburbs tend to be Democrat. What it balances out to is that the city has about half the population and the rural area has about half the population. I think Obama lost Missouri in 2008 by about 4,000 votes. But much of rural Missouri is agricultural and somewhat redneck. The cities tend to be more liberal and less likely to hunt and fish and watch NASCAR. Both areas love baseball. Hockey, though, is more popular in the city and suburbs. It's less popular in the rural areas and the surrounding states.

Anyway, I'll stop boring you now. I'm just amazed how different these two cities look. Feel free to chime in.

[caterpillar2]

It hasn't been on the big networks, but St. Louis is getting closer to the China Hub.

http://www.stltoday....711e962ffe.html

It's expected to start with about four flights between China and St. Louis in the first half of this year. It might turn into more flights later and talk is of St. Louis potentially being a stopover between the U.S. and South America. MidAmerica airport in Illinois already imports flowers from South America.

This could affect the DNC. Or it might now. It's hard to say. Either Obama could spin it positively and say that St. Louis is a good place for business and is working with the Chinese. Or it could look like a negative, because people are sensitive about China manufacturing most of our products. Though, to me, we will never match China in manufacturing, so we'd might as well try to make a profit.

This is the density of Charlotte 2,928.2/sq mi and St. Louis City 5,760.7/sq mi according to Wiki.

To be honest, I prefer the way St. Louis looks over the way Charlotte looks, but that's my preference. I'm more of an urban preservationist myself. St. Louis certainly has new construction, too, just not as much of it.

I tend to prefer the older street grid and the brick, but it's just what I'm used to. Charlotte is beautiful, too. St. Louis is grittier than Charlotte as well. St. Louis might have more issues. And St. Louis' city schools, like in most rust belt cities, are not that good. St. Louis crime was down 10% last year, though. The crime stats that are put out yearly are based on the city itself, which is 15% of the metro population, so the crime stats are not really indicative of the entire region. The city also varies a lot. It has good and bad neighborhoods.

Paul McKee has a plan to reinvest $8 billion into the North Side. He plans to build a lot of residences. Since Lambert Airport is just north of the city (the airport is owned and operated by the city but is on county soil), there's some talk that some of the vacant areas of north city and north county could be used for warehousing cargo between shipments.

Charlotte is beautiful. I guess I just prefer the old buildings more. The cities certainly look very different, though.

Here's a view of Downtown St. Louis. The green and white building behind where you would be standing if you were viewing this is the St. Louis Centre Mall. The plan right now is to turn it into a parking garage with a movie theater and street-facing retail. That renovation is ongoing. That walkway/skybridge thing over the street has been demolished. The building going up is the Roberts Tower, a luxury condominium tower. It's attached to the Mayfair Hotel, which the Roberts brothers own. It's not finished. The tall white building attached to the mall is Macy's. Only the first five floors (soon to be three) are used for the store. There are various plans as to how to use the rest of the building.

http://maps.google.c...290.97,,0,-16.1

I wasn't sure what the best view of Charlotte would be, so here's a picture I found on Google

http://russellbatts....town_Aerial.jpg

Both cities seem to have plenty of parking. What strikes me most how different they are. Charlotte looks new and clean while St. Louis looks gritty and old. Each are beautiful, just it different ways. Downtown St. Louis has seen a few billion in investment since 1999 and the Downtown population has increased. There are quite a few loft and apartment buildings. Still, much of St. Louis' charm, to me, is in its neighborhoods. I think to most people Charlotte has the nicer Downtown because new buildings just give the image of being fresher and more energizing. I think that's the way most people feel anyway.

This is the St. Louis Convention and Visitors Center YouTube Channel. The "St. Louis Destination" video kind of gives you an idea what St. Louis looks like. It mostly shows Downtown areas, but it shows other parts of the city as well.

http://www.youtube.com/user/stlouiscvc

As far as other attractions to see while the convention goers are there, I'm not sure which city has more to offer. St. Louis has a lot of attractions, but I'm not familiar enough with Charlotte to state anything about it. Each city has sports, museums, even a brewery. Both have concert venues. Does Charlotte have a zoo? I've noticed they have a bird sanctuary. It would be neat to visit and Charlotte and see what it has to offer. Our planned trip for this summer is to KC, though.

The cultures are different. Of course, that may just be city vs. rural differences. I live in Southeast Missouri. It's very rural. NASCAR is somewhat popular, though nothing like in the south. Hunting is very common. Churches are everywhere but I have been told that my area is more secular than the deep south. The rural areas tend to be Republican and the cities and some suburbs tend to be Democrat. What it balances out to is that the city has about half the population and the rural area has about half the population. I think Obama lost Missouri in 2008 by about 4,000 votes. But much of rural Missouri is agricultural and somewhat redneck. The cities tend to be more liberal and less likely to hunt and fish and watch NASCAR. Both areas love baseball. Hockey, though, is more popular in the city and suburbs. It's less popular in the rural areas and the surrounding states.

Anyway, I'll stop boring you now. I'm just amazed how different these two cities look. Feel free to chime in.

So NASCAR is the determining factor in whether people are liberal or redneck? My wifes family live in rural Minnesota. They are all flaming liberals. I suppose it is because they are hicks and have never experienced reality. They are dedicate NASCAR fans. More than I have ever seen around the Charlotte area. All of the rural people there are democrats. I have friends that are both democrats and republicans. Charlotte is mixed with both. Educated local people here don't generally put labels on others because they enjoy racing, ie. rednecks and NASCAR, etc. Democrats often enjoy racing as well.

[Maddie2008]

So NASCAR is the determining factor in whether people are liberal or redneck? My wifes family live in rural Minnesota. They are all flaming liberals. I suppose it is because they are hicks and have never experienced reality. They are dedicate NASCAR fans. More than I have ever seen around the Charlotte area. All of the rural people there are democrats. I have friends that are both democrats and republicans. Charlotte is mixed with both. Educated local people here don't generally put labels on others because they enjoy racing, ie. rednecks and NASCAR, etc. Democrats often enjoy racing as well.

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. Most people I know would consider Redneck a badge of honor. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

However, NASCAR generally is associated more with the south, conservatives, and rural people. I know that's not always the case.

But, like Charlotte seems to be, the area I live has a lot of NASCAR fans, though more older people and less with younger people. My point was that both St. Louis and Charlotte seem to be more liberal in the city and a lot of rural Missouri has aspects that you would expect in the south, such as hunting and NASCAR. Of course, people in the north enjoy these things, too.

Again, I didn't mean to stereotype and I apologize. "Redneck" was not meant as an insult, but I know some people don't like the term, which is fine.

[jednc]

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. Most people I know would consider Redneck a badge of honor. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

However, NASCAR generally is associated more with the south, conservatives, and rural people. I know that's not always the case.

But, like Charlotte seems to be, the area I live has a lot of NASCAR fans, though more older people and less with younger people. My point was that both St. Louis and Charlotte seem to be more liberal in the city and a lot of rural Missouri has aspects that you would expect in the south, such as hunting and NASCAR. Of course, people in the north enjoy these things, too.

Again, I didn't mean to stereotype and I apologize. "Redneck" was not meant as an insult, but I know some people don't like the term, which is fine.

I think perhaps we've reached that inevitable point where talking about something one doesn't really know anything about is a bad idea. It applies to almost everything.

[jednc]

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend. Most people I know would consider Redneck a badge of honor. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

However, NASCAR generally is associated more with the south, conservatives, and rural people. I know that's not always the case.

But, like Charlotte seems to be, the area I live has a lot of NASCAR fans, though more older people and less with younger people. My point was that both St. Louis and Charlotte seem to be more liberal in the city and a lot of rural Missouri has aspects that you would expect in the south, such as hunting and NASCAR. Of course, people in the north enjoy these things, too.

Again, I didn't mean to stereotype and I apologize. "Redneck" was not meant as an insult, but I know some people don't like the term, which is fine.

I think perhaps we've reached that inevitable point where talking about something one doesn't really know anything about is a bad idea. It applies to almost everything.

[JerseyBoy]

Even Claire McCaskill (one of Missouri's senators) thinks Charlotte has it in the bag...

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/139159-mccaskill-suspects-charlotte-will-beat-st-louis-to-host-2012-dem-convention

I've worked on many campaigns in the last several years and have been fortunate to meet some of the DC power players who are responsible for this decision. Here are some reasons why I think Charlotte will play host to the DNC in 2012:

1) The Economy: Recently, President Obama has been making inroads with the nation's business community by making GE chief Jeffrey Immelt the head of his new Council on Jobs and Competitiveness and JP Morgan executive William Daley his new chief of staff. The economy is going to be his main focus in the remaining years in his first term. It goes without saying that Charlotte is still a major hub for the US' financial markets and is starting to diversify with clean energy companies - something Obama wants in the new 21st century economy he talks about.

2) Demographics: North Carolina is turning bluer every year as more transplants relocate here. Obama carried this state in 2008 not only because of them, but also in part due to the large African American population. Right now, I would guess that the DNC doesn't see much hope for Missouri in 2012. If it didn't go Obama in 2008, then it sure isn't going to in 2012 due to the recent Tea Party movement and nature of the state to always lean towards the conservative end of politics. The DNC isn't going to have their convention in a state that they don't think they can carry (Colorado 2008; Massachusetts 2004; California 2000; Illinois 1996; New York 1992; etc.). The latest Census also confirmed that people are moving to the south and west. North Carolina is growing at a much faster rate than Missouri and has more electoral college votes. The DNC thinks they have an opening in 2012 in NC, and Obama just may carry the state if he campaigns here enough and they turn out all the right demographics.

3) Obama likes North Carolina: It's as simple as that. His family loves the mountains and he likes the vibe of the state (high technology in RTP, growing liberal base, highly educated workforce, ACC basketball, etc.). Ultimately, the President is the one who decides where the convention will go. McCaskill is up for reelection in 2012 and it would be smart politics to not have the convention in her state so that she can distance herself from the president and win another 6 years. She is one of the earliest supporters of Obama's and her winning in 2012 is crucial to whatever plans he has in store for his second term.

4) Charlotte is hot: The city has undergone a dramatic transformation in the last several decades. Many people are moving here; the economy is expanding; the population is relatively young (one of Obama's key voting blocks); and Uptown is an energetic place to be at night due to recent additions such as the EpiCentre, Bobcats' Arena, the Cultural Center, and countless other attractions. The location of sports facilities and meeting space is also a major plus. Everything is condensed in the center city's core. You don't have to walk far to get from the Convention Center to the Bobcats' Arena and to Bank of America Stadium. These are all possible venues where the DNC could set up shop and host speeches by top democrats. While they also look out for their own interests, the DNC wants to make sure that their delegates enjoy themselves. There is plenty to do and many bars and restaurants are in close proximity to the major facilities previously mentioned.

5) Charlotte's bid was professional and executed perfectly: One thing I love about Charlotte is that if they want something they find a way to get it. The city's bid was excellent and they hired the best consultants to ensure they stood a chance.

I just have a gut feeling that Charlotte will get this. I wish the best to Missouri and St. Louis, but, in my opinion, everything points to Charlotte. We shall see in early February...

[Maddie2008]

Politically Charlotte probably has more to offer. However, it may have more risks, too. Obama could go two ways. He could try to go to the south and gain more votes or he could try to shore up his base in the Midwest. It probably depends on what approach he will take.

As far as clean energy, I'm sure Charlotte has it, but St. Louis has quite a bit of energy headquarters, too, including Ameren and Peabody (coal). Charlotte is also known for sprawl (of course St. Louis has plenty of that). St. Louis is starting to gain economically, especially with the China Hub deal and the big contracts a few Missouri companies have gotten.

Obama very well could win Missouri. He lost it by about 4,000 votes in 2008.

McCaskill could be trying to sabotage the bid to distance herself from Obama, but I would doubt that. However, if Obama were choosing a city based solely on how much he likes it, St. Louis would make more sense. He had 100,000 supporters under the arch in 2008 and he has visited quite a few times. It's also 5 hours from Chicago, where he is setting up his campaign headquarters for 2012. Another Senator (I think) said that McCaskill is known for loose lips, so it wouldn't be a surprise that she didn't know anything. Nobody seems to be told anything right now.

Charlotte is growing a lot faster than St. Louis, obviously. St. Louis is beginning to reemerge. They're obviously different types of cities. St. Louis is Rust Belt and Charlotte is Sun Belt. St. Louis probably has more issues than Charlotte, which has an image of a newer, problem-less city.

I think both cities' bids were very good. St. Louis had concerts with Chuck Berry and Nelly and the DNC people toured the facilities and its seems like everything was good. That said, I don't know much about Charlotte's bid.

In the eyes of the public Charlotte definitely has a more favorable image. Bottom line, though, this will come down to politics. In that case, Charlotte may have an edge. I wouldn't be surprised to see Charlotte get it. At this point, though, we don't know. Both cities are strong contenders.

Politico recently wrote about it. Although the picture of St. Louis that they used appears to be from the 1960s and they reflected it. The large building to the left of the arch should actually be to the right, and it hasn't looked like that since its complete reskinning in 1984. The caption also says "St. Louis Arches." Nice, politico. The article is interesting, though. http://www.politico....0111/48001.html

Another good article here http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/1/23/938176/-Four-choices-for-the-Democratic-Convention-2012

[HopHead]

Personally, I'm tired of hearing about it and just want a decision to be made. We've been hearing for months the location will be picked by such and such date only to be told it got pushed back again.

[Maddie2008]

Yeah. No matter who wins it would be nice to finally know. Then the cities could focus on their other issues and the drama would subside.

[15895]

Politically Charlotte probably has more to offer. However, it may have more risks, too. Obama could go two ways. He could try to go to the south and gain more votes or he could try to shore up his base in the Midwest. It probably depends on what approach he will take.

A risk, as opposed to a most likely loss for a state who has only 1 more electoral vote than South Carolina, Alabama, and Louisiana? If he couldn't win Missouri as a Rock Star in 2008... I doubt he could win in 2012. If you're most likely going to lose, why not try to go for 15 votes instead of 10?

ouri, and Iowa lost a vote.

Another question I have. If ya'lls senator doesn't want to be connected to the president because it might cost her her job. What does that say about the odds of Obama winning Missouri?

Congrats to St. Louis on ya'lls good economical prospects. Charlotte also has had some very good announcements, and both cities should be applauded on that.

[Maddie2008]

A risk, as opposed to a most likely loss for a state who has only 1 more electoral vote than South Carolina, Alabama, and Louisiana? If he couldn't win Missouri as a Rock Star in 2008... I doubt he could win in 2012. If you're most likely going to lose, why not try to go for 15 votes instead of 10?

ouri, and Iowa lost a vote.

Another question I have. If ya'lls senator doesn't want to be connected to the president because it might cost her her job. What does that say about the odds of Obama winning Missouri?

Congrats to St. Louis on ya'lls good economical prospects. Charlotte also has had some very good announcements, and both cities should be applauded on that.

I would say Obama has a pretty good chance of winning Missouri, even if McCaskill is not extremely popular. The thing with Missouri is the popular is nearly evenly distributed between Democrat and Republican. Generally the cities and the inner suburbs are more liberal and Democrat whereas the rural areas are more Conservative and Republican. Any candidate hoping to win Missouri has to win the 4,000 votes that Obama lost by. It's not impossible. The candidates just have to figure out how to reach those voters that swing the vote one way or another.

In 2008 Obama had very good support in the cities, but I don't know if that is still the case. I'm sure getting reelected will be harder than getting elected in the first place.

The China Hub deal could affect our DNC chances. The Democrats could say "look we support St. Louis trading with China because China is the future" while the Republicans could say "They're dealing with the Chinese who are taking our jobs." It could work either way. That said, I'd rather have the China Hub deal than the DNC, because the China Hub is supposed to affect the area for the next couple of decades. It shouldn't take off right away, but it should build over time and be great for the region. I'm not sure how the DNC looks at it.

[Urbanity]

Congrats to St. Louis on ya'lls good economical prospects. Charlotte also has had some very good announcements, and both cities should be applauded on that.

This really is the beet point for me. Hairs can be split about industry and hotel rooms and electorate votes, but at the end of the day it's going to be about the Dems strategy for 2012 and the symbol they think best fits that strategy.

I personally think Charlotte is the best choice but it's not my decision.

Edit: My understanding is that the President's State of the Union is going to be crafted around two particular themes: Centrist politics and moving forward while cutting back.

In light of this, Charlotte really fits all the themes well:

On Centrist Politics: We have a Democrat Governor, Republican legislature and a city/county council that is mixed and generally works well together - Hell the County Council has a lead Democrat as Chair and a Republican as Vice-Chair). More importantly the South is a sea of Red with islands of Blue and that would offer the symbolism of Dems moving towards Republicans instead of staying within their own areas.

On Moving forward while Cutting Back: The idea of scaling back could also be an interesting and unforeseen boon to Charlotte making what was once deemed a negative into a positive: our smaller arena and convention spaces. I think it would offer the White House and the DNC tailor made stories about taking the message to heart of scaling back which they decided to do with their most important event!

As for the moving forward - We are a pro business city which has already garnered media attention as diversifying itself into energy industries (a key favorite of the white house). The narrative of Charlotte since 2008 to 2012 very closely matches the narrative that the President seems to want to state for the country: we have an unbelievable hardship, have had to tighten boot straps , yet are still moving forward and growing.

Anyway - morning coffee just kicked in and I'm thinking out loud.

[Maddie2008]

The Democratic Party is planning to announce its pick for the 2012 presidential convention after President Obama delivers his annual State of the Union Address this week. However, officials said that they weren't sure if the announcement would come quickly after the president speaks, though party officials are eager to catch up to the Republican Party, which is already planning their convention in Tampa.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/01/24/democrats-to-name-2012-convention-location

I really have no idea who will win it.

[Maddie2008]

Rumor is that it will be announced tonight after Obama's speech.

So we'll see.

[Maddie2008]

More speculation

President Obama's top advisors will determine which messages really worked in his speech, then lay out a theme for the 2012 election, and whichever city best fits the theme will land the convention. At least that's the speculation around St. Louis, where the wait continues for an announcement.

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-decision-on-democratic-convent-01252011,0,2027125.story

[southslider]

If R&D, clean energy, education and infrastructure are Obama's themes for increased investment, while freezing overall spending, then Charlotte and St. Louis each make sense. Charlotte has Duke Energy, while St. Louis has Peabody Coal and Ameren. Both have High Speed Rail projects, respectively to Raleigh and Chicago.

Cleveland only makes electoral sense, if you think you're going to barely win. But he should be bold, and go for winning as many states as before, and hence, Charlotte looks better than Cleveland for boldness. Plus, Ohio turned down HSR money for their 3-C corridor project.

Minneapolis makes the least electoral sense, since if he loses Minnesota, he's lost the election. Besides, the RNC was just there (techinically St. Paul, but the same metro).

So again, it's down to Charlotte and St. Louis. But if the message is centrism and moving forward, I think the newer and more purple city of Charlotte has an edge over older and bluer St. Louis (albeit in a purple state).

[jednc]

Rumor is that it will be announced tonight after Obama's speech.

So we'll see.

The announcement will come in February according to the local news.

[Maddie2008]

The announcement will come in February according to the local news.

Supposedly one of the higher ups announced that it would be that night.

Of course it didn't happen.

[krazeeboi]

OK guys, get this: the O has a graphic that compares St. Louis and Charlotte on a variety of fronts. For the "Landmark" category, of course they listed the Gateway Arch for St. Louis. Do you believe that they listed "Firebird" for Charlotte? Some artwork that hasn't even existed for two years that most people in Charlotte don't even know the name of, and you put that up against the Gateway Arch? What the hell were they smoking? They would have been better off listing the Bank of America Corporate Center. I think that's the closest thing Charlotte has to a landmark anyway.

[nonillogical]

haha, yeah, even as someone who likes that sculpture and artist a lot, it is NOT a landmark, even 20 years from now. The Bechtler Museum building itself, however, probably will be. In any case, yeah that's one department where we've got nothin on St. Louis, nor do many other cities of similar size.

[jednc]

OK guys, get this: the O has a graphic that compares St. Louis and Charlotte on a variety of fronts. For the "Landmark" category, of course they listed the Gateway Arch for St. Louis. Do you believe that they listed "Firebird" for Charlotte? Some artwork that hasn't even existed for two years that most people in Charlotte don't even know the name of, and you put that up against the Gateway Arch? What the hell were they smoking? They would have been better off listing the Bank of America Corporate Center. I think that's the closest thing Charlotte has to a landmark anyway.

I think it was tongue in cheek and I don't think you got the joke. They also compared last visit by a future saint. Did you really think they whole thing was serious? Some categories are, and some...well, some are not.

[Urbanity]

^ I thought it was sort of tongue-in-cheek as well specifically the landmark and the soon-to-be-a-saint category.

[HopHead]

I thought a number of things in that list were a joke too. I mean no one could seriously consider comparing the Gateway Arch and Firebird for landmarks. If that was the deciding factor between the two cities, the QC would be screwed. I think we all wish Charlotte had something nearly as iconic as the Arch or Space Needle.

[New Name]

I thought a number of things in that list were a joke too. I mean no one could seriously consider comparing the Gateway Arch and Firebird for landmarks. If that was the deciding factor between the two cities, the QC would be screwed. I think we all wish Charlotte had something nearly as iconic as the Arch or Space Needle.

This is totally off topic, but anyone who has tuned in to the TV show Portlandia on IFC would have seen the episode where the mayor asks Carrie and Fred to write a theme song for Portland. The only stipulation is "it can't sound like Seattle [yeah the space needle, big deal, we've all seen that a thousand times]". City competition is so funny.