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Dr. P Phillips Orlando Performing Arts Center [Phase 2 Under Construction]

bic

By bic
in Orlando

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smileguy
smileguy

Inspired by your comment, I did a little trespassing myself. Amazing the access a high-vis vest and hard hat can get you.   First is The Green Room. Originally a rehearsal hall and event space, t

smileguy
smileguy

A couple updated shots of Steinmetz Hall coming out of the ground.    This is the hall it self, the yellow forms being the envelope, the first vertical wall with snow fencing being where

uncreativeusername
uncreativeusername

Just stumbled on these via a Google Image search for Steinmetz Hall:

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cwetteland Burg

cwetteland

Posted
Posted (edited)

True, but the Champs, Capital One and Florida Classic draw outsiders. And outsiders spend money.

Bingo! For that reason, the loss of UCF games at the Citrus Bowl wasn't as big as some made it out to be. Even though they play at BHNS, the visiting team fans still come and spend just as much on hotels, meals and theme parks. But loosing a Bowl game would be big. The bowls draw far more out-of-towners; meaning big time hotel, meals, and theme park spending for the local economy. If the bowls do more than break even, that's icing on the cake. Profits go to charity.

I think of the stadium like I think of our airport. They're meant to bring in the visitors and their money. They are not meant to be profit centers themselves.

Edited by cwetteland
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demon Hamlet

demon

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Posted

I still would rather see a $50,000,000 minor league baseball stadium replace the Orena than $175,000,000 spent on the Citrus Bowl. A new minor league stadium would draw about 200,000 people a year downtown with a conservative 5,000 per night. That is very conservative with a metro of 2,000,000 and a new stadium if the team was AAA and on target if it were AA. I still can't understand why the Tampa Bay metro area has 5 minor league teams and a major league team and Orlando has none.

The Citrus bowl only averages about 260,000 for it's four big events each year.

1. Citrus Bowl 70,000.

2. Champs Bowl 50,000.

3. Florida Classic 70,000.

4. Monster Truck show 70,000.

Total 260,000.

The high school games lose money just turning the lights on.

The high school state championship games will be lucky to break even.

I imagine it's the facilities, parking, lack of eateries nearby and possibly the neighborhood.

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facilities man Hamlet

facilities man

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True, but the Champs, Capital One and Florida Classic draw outsiders. And outsiders spend money.

Not as many as you might think.

The monster truck show does not generate any hotel stays. The Florida classic is attended mostly by locals and day trippers from Daytona and Tampa. There are some hotel nights there but not even half of the 70,000. The Champs bowl will likely have FSU this year, which may increase attendance, but it will all be day trippers. Maybe 10,000 - 15,000 will be from Wisconsin. The Capital One bowl is the one big draw every year that helps fill hotel rooms. The hotel owners know this. That's why they don't want money going to the Citrus Bowl renovations.

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cwetteland Burg

cwetteland

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Not as many as you might think.

The monster truck show does not generate any hotel stays. The Florida classic is attended mostly by locals and day trippers from Daytona and Tampa. There are some hotel nights there but not even half of the 70,000. The Champs bowl will likely have FSU this year, which may increase attendance, but it will all be day trippers. Maybe 10,000 - 15,000 will be from Wisconsin. The Capital One bowl is the one big draw every year that helps fill hotel rooms. The hotel owners know this. That's why they don't want money going to the Citrus Bowl renovations.

So let me do some math.

Florida Classic ... locals only in the sense that most are in Florida, but that doesn't mean they don't stay in hotels. It's a party weekend many ... not a day event. UCF sent only about 5,000 to Miami this year. But at least half of those stayed overnight in an area hotel. Not to mention dumping a bunch at the South Beach night clubs. So if we only get 20K overnighters,and many from the classic will visit parks. So, 20K = 10K rooms @ $100, that's $1 m. Even the day trippers will probably eat 1 meal in the area (many will take in more). So I'm saying 70K meals @ $20 = $1.4 m. 2K will go to parks at $70 per = $140K. So that's about $2.5 m into the economy and does count vendors/parking at the game.

Champs ... let's say 10K for Wisc ... and I'd bet at least the same for FSU (most will make it a party, and fill the downtown clubs). So 20K fans. I'd say 10K at parks (you don't fly to Orlando around Xmas and not check out the parks), @ $75 and you've got $750K. Those same 20K in 10K rooms @ $100 = $1 m ... but most will stay 2 nights so now $2 m. Those 20K will eat 6 $20 meals - $2.4 m and the other 20K fans will 1 meal = $400K. We're looking at $5.5 m and that doesn't count the downtown clubbing before and after the game.

Citrus ... Just double the above. Another $11 m. (but in reality more than double because more are from out-of-state, AND they tend to staly longer). So not counting the game itself that will pump a lot into local charities, and not counting pre and post game celebrations, and not counting Monster Trucks and Florida High Schools, were still talking $20 m year into the economy. So really $25 m / year (total renovation cost in 6 years). When much which is paid for by out-of-towners, and we're still not including facilities rent.

Then think about the economic stimulus of the maybe 5,000 construction-related jobs (when construction jobs are otherwise hard to find). It still seems like a pretty good deal.

I still say build the PAC first however. The biggest near-term impact is the construction jobs. And we need those sooner rather than later, and the PAC generates more of them. When you count all the people who produce the materials, or sell groceries and clothes to the workers and their families, the PAC will put almost 20,000 people to work. Statistics say 1 bn of stimulus = 46,000 jobs.

It just seems that when most economists say that a really big stimulus is needed to kickstart the economy, and when this total $1.1 bn venues package will add 50,000 jobs with a large amount paid for by those that can still afford to travel, hey, the timing couldn't be better.

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facilities man Hamlet

facilities man

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Posted

So let me do some math.

Florida Classic ... locals only in the sense that most are in Florida, but that doesn't mean they don't stay in hotels. It's a party weekend many ... not a day event. UCF sent only about 5,000 to Miami this year. But at least half of those stayed overnight in an area hotel. Not to mention dumping a bunch at the South Beach night clubs. So if we only get 20K overnighters,and many from the classic will visit parks. So, 20K = 10K rooms @ $100, that's $1 m. Even the day trippers will probably eat 1 meal in the area (many will take in more). So I'm saying 70K meals @ $20 = $1.4 m. 2K will go to parks at $70 per = $140K. So that's about $2.5 m into the economy and does count vendors/parking at the game.

Champs ... let's say 10K for Wisc ... and I'd bet at least the same for FSU (most will make it a party, and fill the downtown clubs). So 20K fans. I'd say 10K at parks (you don't fly to Orlando around Xmas and not check out the parks), @ $75 and you've got $750K. Those same 20K in 10K rooms @ $100 = $1 m ... but most will stay 2 nights so now $2 m. Those 20K will eat 6 $20 meals - $2.4 m and the other 20K fans will 1 meal = $400K. We're looking at $5.5 m and that doesn't count the downtown clubbing before and after the game.

Citrus ... Just double the above. Another $11 m. (but in reality more than double because more are from out-of-state, AND they tend to staly longer). So not counting the game itself that will pump a lot into local charities, and not counting pre and post game celebrations, and not counting Monster Trucks and Florida High Schools, were still talking $20 m year into the economy. So really $25 m / year (total renovation cost in 6 years). When much which is paid for by out-of-towners, and we're still not including facilities rent.

Then think about the economic stimulus of the maybe 5,000 construction-related jobs (when construction jobs are otherwise hard to find). It still seems like a pretty good deal.

I still say build the PAC first however. The biggest near-term impact is the construction jobs. And we need those sooner rather than later, and the PAC generates more of them. When you count all the people who produce the materials, or sell groceries and clothes to the workers and their families, the PAC will put almost 20,000 people to work. Statistics say 1 bn of stimulus = 46,000 jobs.

It just seems that when most economists say that a really big stimulus is needed to kickstart the economy, and when this total $1.1 bn venues package will add 50,000 jobs with a large amount paid for by those that can still afford to travel, hey, the timing couldn't be better.

I agree with your figures, if anything they're conservative. I'm just saying the total 260,000 attendees do not all stay at hotels etc... I think the Citrus bowl project should be done as well..

You also need to consider how much it costs to run and maintain the citrus bowl. It is, and probably will always be, a slight loss in revenue to operate each year, but I agree the overall benifits to the local economy surpass the money lost running the Citrus Bowl.

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cwetteland Burg

cwetteland

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Posted (edited)

Still more then the arena and DPAC

I agree completely ... but right now ... we need the DPAC to start more. Nothing will get us out of our current recesson more than near-term job creation. At $150m the bowl if started next year = ~7,000 construction-related jobs. At $400M the DPAC if started next year = ~20,000 construction-related jobs. The more construction jobs, the weaker and shorter the recession. The shorter the recession, the sooner tourism picks up and the sooner we complete all the venues.

Also, we are already collecting the revenue from hotel, eats, and parks, so a delay in renovation (as long as we don't lose the bowls) does not equal a delay in that revenue. We just need to show the sponsors a commitment to get it started in a few years.

From an immediate job-creation point of view ... more and sooner ... are key. To do that, most expensive to least expensive is the order to go. And whether we knew that back when we started the Events Center or not, it has worked out that way.

Edited by cwetteland
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JRS1 Town

JRS1

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Fla. Citrus Sports, if I'm not mistaken, sponsored the first annual Gator Slam this past Sunday at the O-Rena (NCAA BB). I think they are getting creative- in a good way.

we do need the Citrus Bowl renovated and I think that is a priority. I don't want to lose either of those two bowl games. ND is supposed to come here in a few years for a couple of games.

I want the PAC, big time, but an alternate philosophy here is that of keeping what you've got and not spreading yourself too thin. the spreading thin part is the PAC, and the keeping what you've got is the Magic and the Bowl games.

The flip side to that coin is the redevelopment across from City Hall that would not take place if the PAC wasn't built.

What pisses me off about all of this is that the Citrus Bowl is in a bad neighborhood. I think that if it was closer to the CBD, it wouldn't even be an issue. The City really needs to get creative here and promote some projects around there; OBT is an armpit. I'm confused and slightly frsutrated right now...

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Boomer136 Hamlet

Boomer136

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Posted (edited)

The PAC will be more in the red then the Citrus Bowl. That is just the nature of the game.

I do think DPac should ne a priority, but when it comes to economics, the Citrus Bowl wins.

For awhile, the Carr has exceeded both its revenue and concession budgets. We'll see if that changes with the new 'piece of the action' deals that the Centroplex has been pushing (also read 'piece of the risk'). There is just more per use dates for a PAC.

Something that just popped into my head. There is also the corporate show possibilities in the PAC that might move some stuff more downtown. I did the LiveStrong event this past summer at The Ohio State University in their Mershon Auditorium. In January, GE is hosting their shareholder's meeting at the Chapin Theatre at the OCCC, and 'center of hospitality' not withstanding, they are not the easiest of folks to deal with. With the new (hopefully) hotel going up by Church Street for breakouts, downtown might be able to host a few corporate shows to add to the usage. Especially if the new Events Center is really an events center. I've done plenty in well thought out arenas that worked well as expo halls.

Edited by Boomer136
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