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2008 US Presidential Race, Obama vs McCain

monsoon

By monsoon
in The Coffee House

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erdogs Burg

erdogs

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Palin is the main reason McCain will lose this election, but I don't see this as that big of a deal. She obviously sees the VP roll going far beyond it's stated constitutional duties, as does Cheney and Gore did. If you will remember, Gore was the leading cheerleader on the NAFTA legislation. In the past two decades the presidency has become a dual roll. What I get from what she's saying, Palin would be working congress on behalf of the president. While this might not be the constitutional roll of the VP, it's nothing new and it's not prohibited by the constitution either. I highly doubt she meant she would be introducing legislation like a congressman or senator. This is what the constitution says about the VP's duties.

The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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^The point being made is that she doesn't know enough about the US Constitution to know the simple statement you just posted. i.e. she has never read it. This ignorance of the basic principles of the US government was not a problem of either Gore or Cheney or for that matter any past President or VP that I can think of except for maybe GW Bush. Gore and Cheney may not have followed the US Constitution but I would bet money they could both talk in detail about it. Palin, in contrast, has demonstrated over and over that she is fairly clueless on most intellectual matters concerning the government.

I do realize there has been a vast wave of anti-intellectualism that has passed over this country for the last 25 years. There was a time when lack of education was an embarrassment. Now people are proud of it and are openly critical of anyone that is well educated. Palin is the very photogenic metaphor for being stupid and ignorant. This is why there has been a complete media shutdown on Palin and why they won't let her do something as simple as a press conference. The prospect of the Palin's running the White House is frightening.

Palin may very well be the tipping point that costs McCain this election, but this is McCain's fault, not Palin's. McCain has also run a horrible campaign. Despite popular opinion I would argue this was McCain's election to lose not Obama's. These are very trying and stressful times and if McCain had put forth that he makes responsible thoughtful decisions, that he is willing to compromise, and that he is for all Americans I think he could have won this election. His campaign turned into everything he said he hated in 2000 and the people don't want that now.

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Justadude Burg

Justadude

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New AP poll shows the race in a dead heat, with McCain making some surprisingly strong gains among GOP-friendly demographics. Of course the polls run a little behind and this may have some Joe the Plumber residue, but still it suggests that the race is far from over with 2 weeks to go and plenty of time for shenanigans.

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Southron Burg

Southron

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^Interesting to see Obama surging in swing states.

New AP poll shows the race in a dead heat, with McCain making some surprisingly strong gains among GOP-friendly demographics. Of course the polls run a little behind and this may have some Joe the Plumber residue, but still it suggests that the race is far from over with 2 weeks to go and plenty of time for shenanigans.
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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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OK, one more time. National polls are meaningless. The election of US President is actually 51 different state controlled elections. The only real poll that matters is the one on election day which decides how each state will assign its electors who do elect the president. These electors are assigned by population but are not proportionally the same amongst each state. Al Gore in 2000 was ahead in the national polls and in fact he won the popular vote, but because he did not get enough electors, he lost.

You have to look at the vote of the individual states to determine where this race really is.

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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Some election triviality.

We all know that prior to this election, that it has been almost 30 years since there wasn't a Bush or Clinton on the ticket. So.....

When was the last time the GOP won the presidency when there wasn't a Bush or Nixon on the ticket? The answer will surprise you.

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Yankee Fan Hamlet

Yankee Fan

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Being a resident of the Great City of Grand Rapids and the Great State of Michigan, I would like to thank both candidates for pulling out of our state a few days back.

It's funny: We have been in a recession up here for over 5 years now.

I feel bad for everyone else feeling the pain, but all I can say is: Welcome. No one helped us as we were feeling it pretty bad up here, so it is hard for me to read posts throughout other parts of UP with any sort of compassion because I feel that we were ignored by the rest of the country for at least five years.

So, to McCain, who I actually though about voting for until I came to my senses, thanks for thinking of us when you pulled out. You made us all proud of your service in the other 49 states.

To Obama, this is the second time, buddy, that you have chose to leave us hanging and not focus on Michigan. Thanks, a lot. Great strategy and leadership. I appreciate the change.

My feeling is that neither of these guys has my interests in mind. For all of the differences that they have on social issues, neither of them is going to change a damn thing in Washington. Nice on the stump, but get real: You will never turn the titanic on a dime. And, for those who say something like "But it starts with someone who is willing to change things" that has never proven out in history. It takes consensus; it'll take congress, the American people, and many other entities, not just a president. 8 years ago I bought in to this same crap from another young guy and I have regretted my vote for years.

Roe v. Wade? Never going to be overturned, so it does not really matter to me their stance on this. War in Iraq? One says leave, the other says stay. But no one has a clue what will happen in 3, 6 or 9 months. The Economy? McCain does not have a damn clue and Obama says listen to Buffet. I can do that without electing Obama. Quite honestly, I'd be willing to bet that most Republicans wish they had put Romney on the ticket. At least he has first hand experience outside of politics and it is all economy based experience. At least that guy could have talked intelligently about the current crisis. Pisses me off, too that McCain has not even talked to Romney about the Economy. Stupid.

Therefore, I have made my choice to vote third party. Neither of these guys has shown me the change that I need.

Obama: I am not making over 100K but I have a big problem with your idea of spreading the wealth around. Just a dumb idea that only helps people in the short term until loopholes are found. And I do not like knowing that if I succeed past a certain level that I am going to be penalized. Why would I be okay with that?!

And McCain: Outside of your creepy smile, you have proven to be too mad at the world and your ideas, buddy, are just like Double Us. Sorry, they are.

I am really hoping that we have some great leaders, not politicians, to choose from in the 2012 election. And I hope that the candidates in that cycle remember Michigan. Because we will remember those who turn their backs on us.

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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.....

Obama: I am not making over 100K but I have a big problem with your idea of spreading the wealth around. Just a dumb idea that only helps people in the short term until loopholes are found. And I do not like knowing that if I succeed past a certain level that I am going to be penalized. Why would I be okay with that?!...

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tamias6 Town

tamias6

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Being a resident of the Great City of Grand Rapids and the Great State of Michigan, I would like to thank both candidates for pulling out of our state a few days back.

It's funny: We have been in a recession up here for over 5 years now.

I feel bad for everyone else feeling the pain, but all I can say is: Welcome. No one helped us as we were feeling it pretty bad up here, so it is hard for me to read posts throughout other parts of UP with any sort of compassion because I feel that we were ignored by the rest of the country for at least five years.

So, to McCain, who I actually though about voting for until I came to my senses, thanks for thinking of us when you pulled out. You made us all proud of your service in the other 49 states.

To Obama, this is the second time, buddy, that you have chose to leave us hanging and not focus on Michigan. Thanks, a lot. Great strategy and leadership. I appreciate the change.

My feeling is that neither of these guys has my interests in mind. For all of the differences that they have on social issues, neither of them is going to change a damn thing in Washington. Nice on the stump, but get real: You will never turn the titanic on a dime. And, for those who say something like "But it starts with someone who is willing to change things" that has never proven out in history. It takes consensus; it'll take congress, the American people, and many other entities, not just a president. 8 years ago I bought in to this same crap from another young guy and I have regretted my vote for years.

Roe v. Wade? Never going to be overturned, so it does not really matter to me their stance on this. War in Iraq? One says leave, the other says stay. But no one has a clue what will happen in 3, 6 or 9 months. The Economy? McCain does not have a damn clue and Obama says listen to Buffet. I can do that without electing Obama. Quite honestly, I'd be willing to bet that most Republicans wish they had put Romney on the ticket. At least he has first hand experience outside of politics and it is all economy based experience. At least that guy could have talked intelligently about the current crisis. Pisses me off, too that McCain has not even talked to Romney about the Economy. Stupid.

Therefore, I have made my choice to vote third party. Neither of these guys has shown me the change that I need.

Obama: I am not making over 100K but I have a big problem with your idea of spreading the wealth around. Just a dumb idea that only helps people in the short term until loopholes are found. And I do not like knowing that if I succeed past a certain level that I am going to be penalized. Why would I be okay with that?!

And McCain: Outside of your creepy smile, you have proven to be too mad at the world and your ideas, buddy, are just like Double Us. Sorry, they are.

I am really hoping that we have some great leaders, not politicians, to choose from in the 2012 election. And I hope that the candidates in that cycle remember Michigan. Because we will remember those who turn their backs on us.

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Southron Burg

Southron

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Obama: I am not making over 100K but I have a big problem with your idea of spreading the wealth around. Just a dumb idea that only helps people in the short term until loopholes are found. And I do not like knowing that if I succeed past a certain level that I am going to be penalized. Why would I be okay with that?!
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Lowerdeck Burg

Lowerdeck

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I'm not thrilled about the presidential race anymore either.

Obama is going to win by about 20 points here, I don't like Obama. The guy I did want to vote for (Barr) is not going to be on the ballot. So now I have no idea what I'm going to be doing.

I wish I was up in New Hampshire where it's more interesting. No fun being in the bluest of blue.

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Lowerdeck Burg

Lowerdeck

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^ That was just a bizarre election. Most Republicans had sided with Lieberman instead of the elephant sacrifice, and then repays them all by caucusing with the Democrats. I saw that coming from a mile away. Only time to date I've voted for a Democrat (Lamont), and that was to try and knock Lieberman out.

Interestingly enough, the political party he used for the sole purpose of getting reelected in 2006 is now being split between people who have the want to return to classical Democratic platforms ... and the other faction is people who are upset with Lieberman and want him removed from the Senate.

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