SouthEnd Midrise Projects

[Temeteron]

So no intersection??

[REeyes]

BRS is only working on the 54" trans-main relocation. Once that scope is complete then work will begin on the intersection...but yes it is happening.

[kermit]

Today's CBJ is reporting on what I believe is a new apartment project. 153 units in two buildings will go in behind Prices Chicken Coop in the space between Camden, Tryon, Kingston and Park called the Park and Kingston Apartments in South End.

Marsh Properties and Merrifield Patrick Vermillion are partnering on the project. Narmour Wright and LandDesign are designing. Groundbreaking is planned for this summer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2012/02/10/more-south-end-apartments.html?page=all

[ah59396]

Today's CBJ is reporting on what I believe is a new apartment project. 153 units in two buildings will go in behind Prices Chicken Coop in the space between Camden, Tryon, Kingston and Park called the Park and Kingston Apartments in South End.

Marsh Properties and Merrifield Patrick Vermillion are partnering on the project. Narmour Wright and LandDesign are designing. Groundbreaking is planned for this summer.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2012/02/10/more-south-end-apartments.html?page=all

Hooray for density!

[Dub_Ag]

Does anybody know what's going on with the three recently demo'd parcels between South Blvd and the rail just north of Remount?

[Norm2]

Does anybody know what's going on with the three recently demo'd parcels between South Blvd and the rail just north of Remount?

Apartments I think?

[Prodev]

Southline Apartments site plan doesn't take into consideration the Iverson connection, and the city has no plans to fund it in the short term, so this connection is dead for all intensive purposes. The connection would drastically limit Cherokee/Pappas's development potential on South as well since it cuts right throug the middle of the site.

[Prodev]

The 3 parcels at Remount and South they're just finishing the demo on the existing buildings which includes asbestos removal which is why it seems to be taking so long. No immediate plans for this site.

[southslider]

Southline Apartments site plan doesn't take into consideration the Iverson connection, and the city has no plans to fund it in the short term, so this connection is dead for all intensive purposes. The connection would drastically limit Cherokee/Pappas's development potential on South as well since it cuts right throug the middle of the site.

I agree that the City should have been willing to put some money behind their own plans. But to say that a connection would go right "through the middle of the site" is a huge stretch. Surely, Cherokee/Pappas would assemble multiple parcels for development, just as Cherokee did for Southline Apartments. For comparison, Southline was able to provide multiple connections to Dunavant, even though those streets, albeit private, run right "through the middle of (that) site." Afterall, residential parking lots, parking decks, or private garages for multi-family residential all require some sort of vehicular access. What a waste of a traffic signal at Lowe's, too, since this connection could have also helped Greater South End residents not only cross the LYNX line, but also South Boulevard.

So yes, I personally blame BOTH the City and Cherokee/Pappas. Granted, Pappas does have a history of only doing connections (Metropolitan, Scaleybark, Berewick), when City taxpayers largely foot the bill.

[Prodev]

Cherokee/Pappas acquired the Southline site, but has since sold it to JDH, who is developing the apartments on the 11 acres, so the site planning is on their behalf, not Cherokee/Pappas. They provide access to Dunavant because it's a garden apartment deal with surface parking and they have to provide some form of ingress/egress, so I don't really understand your logic. The site I was referring to the connector road running right through the middle is the 3.6 acre site that sits directly at the light at South and Iverson. If the connection happened, it would leave 200' on the south side and 100' on the north side with about 400' of depth. Not sure how you develop anything efficient and dense with that. It basically leaves you with enough land for outparcel/fast food users which is obviously not the intention.

[southslider]

The site I was referring to the connector road running right through the middle is the 3.6 acre site that sits directly at the light at South and Iverson.

Your logic assumes a development on ONE parcel, when Cherokee owns MULTIPLE parcels along South Boulevard, just as they owned MULTIPLE parcels along Dunavant, which they then sold to JDH for Southline.

Plus, Pappas has a record of developing large projects. Granted, Pappas often sells off smaller portions of his master plan to other developers. For example, Pappas is selling land to Levine for apartments at Metropolitan.

Are you telling us that this ONE parcel opposite Lowe's, unlike all the others, will actually be developed by itself? That would be interesting, since adjoining parcels are also owned by Cherokee.

[Dub_Ag]

Iverson road connection through that site is dead for all intents and purposes. That city plan was old and dated and with JLB building without plans for connections, the extension is no longer feasible. Also no stop planned at that juncture either.

Southslider, the adjoining sites across from Lowes are owned by two different people. There's a 4.2 acre parcel on the north butting up to the Atherton Lofts owned by a family and then the adjoining 3.6 acres right next to the car wash owned by Cherokee. There's also a +-1.5 acre parcel inbetween the carwash and Off Broadway store owned by Cherokee and then the 3.5 acre parcel at the corner of Remount and South is owned by Cherokee. Other than that, Cherokee owns two other very small parcels off of Dunavant that JLB decided not to purchase (0.5-1.2 acre parcels).

I've heard the question posed in previous threads, but I was wondering if anyone had any new news as to whether or not a grocer was going to come to South End with all the recent residential development going on. I know there's a home market, but I'd think that a Harris Teeter or someone would put in something along South Blvd somewhere.

[southslider]

That city plan was old and dated ...

The City's New Bern Station Area Plan (which recommended the Iverson connection) was adopted in July 2008. Granted, that was pre-crash. But guess what, Historic South End (Charlotte Center City Partners) wants to update City plans. However, their desire ain't to make it easier to develop more Southlines. Rather, it's just the opposite. South End is ticked that the area has been developing all rooftops, and now even surface parking, without any vibrant street-level spaces in the mix. So Cherokee/Pappas may be off the hook for connectivity, but the neighbors won't be too happy if they end up proposing even more low-rise residential.

Edited February 17, 2012 by southslider

[Dub_Ag]

Pre-crash is exactly what i meant by "old and dated".

Industrial is undesirable (and unfortunately already exists), office is unnecessary, and retail will inherently come with all the new roofs being built, surface or not. Build it and they will come, they're just a little slower.

[Prodev]

Thank you Dub.

The current pipeline of garden and 4 story projects with surface parking (Southline, Fountains & Silos) will likely be the last. Any desirable land out there today won't trade for under $30/sf, which will require 4-5 story with structured parking. Southline, Fountains and Silos all traded for about $9/sf, which you can make garden/surface work. Silos and Fountains we're both FCL deals too, which there won't be any more of in the current cycle in the South End.

I think it's interesting to note that none of the deals coming through the pipeline today have any significant retail component if any at all. When the TOD zoning ordinance and the New Bern/South End area plans were conceptualized, they had visions of grandeur and thought these complex mixed-use projects we're going to happen on every block. Those aren't feasible today, and the TOD zoning is not condusive to retail. A grocer would be great, but it's hard when you're limited to a 30,000 sf footprint, have to have a FAR of at least 0.5 or 0.75, and only get credit for up to 20% of the retail square footage to reach the FAR, it's nearly impossible to make it work. You either need to build a vertical retail project which won't work or you need to build a Park & Market (Raleigh) style mixed-use project which not too many developers want to take on today when they can make a straight forward apartment deal work all day. It'll be interesting to see if there are any rezoning petitions filed in the near future for retail projects trying to get approval under the TOD-O and how they are received by the city. Otherwise, I think the only options for a grocer are Strawn and Scaleybark.

[southslider]

Otherwise, I think the only options for a grocer are Strawn and Scaleybark.

Except Strawn was led the Housing Authority, not exactly a retail builder. And Scaleybark, at least the side with a grocer, was led by Crosland, which could also be called "old and dated" by post-crash terminology.

[Prodev]

_{Whether CHA is an expert at commercial development or not, they have entitlements to build 100,000+ square feet of it. My point was that there are limited sites large enough to accomodate a large scale retail project. I was also referring to Pappas's site at Scaleybark. Their original design didn't incorporate a grocer b/c Crosland's did, but now it is probably likley that if there is still a need for a grocer when they proceed, it would be a site that makes sense, again, because of the size.}

[southslider]

^Some would question whether Pappas is an expert at grocery stores or not, considering he hasn't used his entitlements or site large enough to build a Harris Teeter at Berewick (Steele Creek/Dixie River/Shopton Rd W).

Pappas is certainly an expert at "public-private partnerships." Within the past few years, there has been a lot of City money spent around his developments. And today, the result is some projects partially built (Metropolitan, Berewick) or largely unbuilt (Scaleybark). But when it comes to knocking on City Hall's door for handouts, talk about another practice that may join the heap as "old and dated."

[kermit]

While world of beer is moving right along, Bite Your Toung (on the LRT side of circle) has made zero progress. It is still nothing more than a sign in the window and an untouched gutted space.

[go_vertical]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but Niche has closed and there is already a sign announcing a store called Blush will be opening soon. I'm a denim lover so I hate to see Niche go. At least that prime location won't stay vacant for too long (hopefully). Does anyone else know where I can get my raw denim fix in town?

[nonillogical]

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet, but Niche has closed and there is already a sign announcing a store called Blush will be opening soon. I'm a denim lover so I hate to see Niche go. At least that prime location won't stay vacant for too long (hopefully). Does anyone else know where I can get my raw denim fix in town?

Yeah in the Southend Living thread. Like we said there, its a 17 year old girl's organic makeup concept. Doesn't seem like they considered the neighborhood at all, doesn't seem like it can possibly last if Niche fell. We'll see... IMO it may be better than nothing but is still a massive underutilization of a great space.

[kermit]

Site work is well underway at the Colonial apartments site at Poindexter extension and South.

I am not sure but I think I noticed some activity at the NW corner of South and Remount (the Macs across the street parking). Anybody know anything.

[Guest]

Site work is well underway at the Colonial apartments site at Poindexter extension and South.

I am not sure but I think I noticed some activity at the NW corner of South and Remount (the Macs across the street parking). Anybody know anything.

New Veterinary Hospital

[dubone]

Yeah, Long animal hospital is moving to a new building from a couple blocks away. A significantly lower density than SouthHaus.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/planning/Rezoning/RezoningPetitions/2011_Petitions/Pages/2011-015.aspx

[kermit]

Not the SouthHaus site -- there is still no activity there. I am talking about the parcel across South blvd. I believe a new silt fence went up there recently.