Election '08: Primaries

[Charlotte_native]

She may as well come right out and state that she will fight all the way to the convention regardless of the outcome in Michigan, because that is clearly her strategy even if those delegates are seated. I don't see a possible result in this controversy that would lead Clinton to step down before the last possible moment.

[monsoon]

More from Obama's Church. Note, Pfleger was a visiting Catholic Priest. (Obama was not present)

Rev. Michael Pfleger Explains Hillary's Crying and Whining

[krazeeboi]

Obama's church is going to cost him this election. Attending Trinity was good for him politically when it was only Chicago and Illinois people that had to vote for him, but this is a whole 'nother ballgame. It's a damn shame, really it is.

[runawayjim]

Here's something that's pretty amusing. Hillary's all about playing by the rules, saying that they can't give any MI delegates to Obama because he wasn't on the ballot. Yet, the rules she agreed upon from the beginning stated that MI and FL will seat ZERO delegates. What will it be Hillary? You can't have it both ways. She's nothing but a political hack. I hope the rest of the country sees through her and Bill's crap and the Clinton family become political has-beens. I am really surprised that anyone can stand by her at this point. Our country absolutely does not need someone like this in the white house.

[Gard]

According to a blog at the Baltimore Sun, CNN reporting that Obama is canceling his membership at Trinity Church:

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/polit...his_church.html

[kayman]

The new delegate count for the Democratic National Convention is 2,118 to nominate a candidate president. The DNC has proven they have juju beads for brains. Once again, reaffirming why I'm a registered Independent.

[monsoon]

Indeed. Members of the Clinton campaign are not happy with the decision as they sought to have not only the full delegates seated at full strength, but also for Clinton to receive all of the delegates from Michigan (Obama would not get any). Donna Brasille, a well respected super delegate basically said that was "cheating".

Harold Ickes, Clinton's campaign manager said the campaign reserved the right to fight this decision all the way to the convention. Ickes voted to strip these states of their delegates in the first place. Now he wants them seated only after it gives the Clinton campaign an advantage.

It will be interesting to see if the Clinton campaign pursues this scorched earth policy in their vain attempts to win the nomination. I have personally decided that I will never vote for a member of the Clinton family again, even if that means John McCain wins the election. Clinton has demonstrated every single bad thing that I have come to despise the Bush family for, and it is time they get sent home to Arkansas. It's been said that if Clinton returns to the senate, that she is going to have to make a lot amends in order to hold onto that seat.

[runawayjim]

apparently, michigan was given 69-59 clinton-obama. the same article says that ickes was told by hillary to reserve her right to take this to the credentials committee. this is really getting ridiculous. she's being a sore loser now. i really hope this puts an end to all her political prospects and the people of NY realize that she does not deserve another term in the senate.

[monsoon]

Donna Brazille is a true leader. These are her comments in yesterday's rules meeting.

[JerseyBoy]

Indeed. Members of the Clinton campaign are not happy with the decision as they sought to have not only the full delegates seated at full strength, but also for Clinton to receive all of the delegates from Michigan (Obama would not get any). Donna Brasille, a well respected super delegate basically said that was "cheating".

Harold Ickes, Clinton's campaign manager said the campaign reserved the right to fight this decision all the way to the convention. Ickes voted to strip these states of their delegates in the first place. Now he wants them seated only after it gives the Clinton campaign an advantage.

It will be interesting to see if the Clinton campaign pursues this scorched earth policy in their vain attempts to win the nomination. I have personally decided that I will never vote for a member of the Clinton family again, even if that means John McCain wins the election. Clinton has demonstrated every single bad thing that I have come to despise the Bush family for, and it is time they get sent home to Arkansas. It's been said that if Clinton returns to the senate, that she is going to have to make a lot amends in order to hold onto that seat.

[monsoon]

Harold Ickes is not Clinton's campaign manager. Maggie Williams is her director, while Ickes is just an adviser/strategist.

[JerseyBoy]

Until Obama gets 2118, then she's going to give him hell to get the nomination. She has every right to.

It's funny how people are trying to create Obama as the more level-headed one when he voluntarily took his name off the ballot, but now wants "his share" of delegates out of Michigan. Do I think she should have received all the delegates in Michigan? No, but I also don't think it's fair for a candidate, who wasn't even on the ballot, to take delegates away from Clinton.

As for this BS issue of "party-unity," we should have known months ago it would be like this with the first black and female candidates. If she gets the nomination, many of his supporters won't vote for her. If he gets the nomination, many of her supporters won't vote for him. If Obama wants to end this and move on (i.e. show real leadership), call Clinton up and work out a deal where she'll drop out and he will make her his VP. People need to get over the idea that Washington will be cleaned up solely by this man, and that by making her his VP is "more of the same." This is politics.

[Justadude]

^ Obama has every right to choose his own VP when he finally secures the nomination (which looks all but certain at this point considering what it would take for Hillary to rip it out of his grasp) so I see no obligation whatsoever for him to pacify Clinton by giving her the second-most important post in the nation.

I agree that it's Clinton's right to "give him hell" until the fat lady sings, but she must understand that she's burning bridges left and right in what appears to be a lost cause. She would be MUCH better off gracefully playing out the campaign in unifying terms, rather than dragging this out a la Bush/Gore 2000.

[Charlotteman]

..... I have personally decided that I will never vote for a member of the Clinton family again, even if that means John McCain wins the election. Clinton has demonstrated every single bad thing that I have come to despise the Bush family for, and it is time they get sent home to Arkansas.....

[monsoon]

......

It's funny how people are trying to create Obama as the more level-headed one when he voluntarily took his name off the ballot, but now wants "his share" of delegates out of Michigan. Do I think she should have received all the delegates in Michigan? No, but I also don't think it's fair for a candidate, who wasn't even on the ballot, to take delegates away from Clinton.......

[runawayjim]

Until Obama gets 2118, then she's going to give him hell to get the nomination. She has every right to.

It's funny how people are trying to create Obama as the more level-headed one when he voluntarily took his name off the ballot, but now wants "his share" of delegates out of Michigan. Do I think she should have received all the delegates in Michigan? No, but I also don't think it's fair for a candidate, who wasn't even on the ballot, to take delegates away from Clinton.

As for this BS issue of "party-unity," we should have known months ago it would be like this with the first black and female candidates. If she gets the nomination, many of his supporters won't vote for her. If he gets the nomination, many of her supporters won't vote for him. If Obama wants to end this and move on (i.e. show real leadership), call Clinton up and work out a deal where she'll drop out and he will make her his VP. People need to get over the idea that Washington will be cleaned up solely by this man, and that by making her his VP is "more of the same." This is politics.

[JerseyBoy]

i say you are blinded by your political love for this woman.

[runawayjim]

Just because I don't share the same views as you doesn't mean you have to attack me. I admit that I am very disgruntled Clinton supporter. I have seen a rockstar politician fly in and lead people with words, not actions. I'm tired of seeing how he has gotten a free pass by the media on many issues that they refuse to bring up, due to a fear of possibly being called racists by civil-rights groups. I'm tired of seeing people line up to vote and cannot name one thing he's done in office. I'm tired of being called a racist just because I don't support the African-American candidate. I'm very tired of this three ring circus. I suppose I'll go back to doing what I love best, urban development. Or, channel my energy towards helping pack Liddy Dole's bags.

[JerseyBoy]

did you ever stop and think that it might not just be because people like obama, but also because they can't stand hillary that they're so strongly against her? there's 2 types of voting. the first is voting for someone because you like them. the second is voting against someone because you don't like them. in the primary, i voted for obama because i like him. in the general election, if hillary is the nominee, i will vote against her, because i can't stand her and her politics.

oh, and you've said it yourself several times in this thread. hillary and obama see eye to eye on the majority of the issues. you've even gone so far as to say that people are nuts for saying they'd vote against her because of this.

what actions has hillary led people with? sure, a bit part of obama is his charisma and his ability to speak to people's hearts. that's a HUGE part of being a leader. he can lead. he can bring people together under a common cause. hillary just doesn't have that ability, and she's no more experienced than obama (though she likes to pretend she is). and now all this. you seemed to ignore everything else i said about this. do you truly believe she cares about this country? do you truly not see how her actions recently have been completely and utterly selfish? MI and FL should NOT be seated at the convention because the RULES said they should not be. hillary only wanted the rules changed when it suited her, AFTER she approved of the rules before the primary season started. hillary's the one with the three ring circus. i respect her right to stay in this until all the primaries are over, but i do not respect her decision to have the rules changed to favor her, when she approved of the rules at the beginning of this whole thing. perhaps she shouldn't have been so arrogant to think that she was going to win it all on feb. 5.

you might be frustrated for being called a racist and for people gravitating towards a "rock star", but i, and many many many others, are frustrated with hillary and her followers for changing the rules for selfish reasons.

[monsoon]

.... I admit that I am very disgruntled Clinton supporter. I have seen a rockstar politician fly in and lead people with words, not actions. I'm tired of seeing how he has gotten a free pass by the media on many issues that they refuse to bring up, due to a fear of possibly being called racists by civil-rights groups. I'm tired of seeing people line up to vote and cannot name one thing he's done in office. I'm tired of being called a racist just because I don't support the African-American candidate. I'm very tired of this three ring circus. I suppose I'll go back to doing what I love best, urban development. Or, channel my energy towards helping pack Liddy Dole's bags.

[Neo]

If she gets the nomination, many of his supporters won't vote for her. If he gets the nomination, many of her supporters won't vote for him.

Of course now I would wager that many of those that had backed Clinton earlier in the primaries are now regretting their support for her tactics now that her true self has come out. If she did somehow manage to get the nomination I could see where many previous Clinton supporters would simply jump ship to McCain just to avoid electing her into office. I would certainly be one of those.

There was a time in the early process of this primary where I would have voted for Clinton if she had gotten the final nomination for the democratic party, no questions asked. I now have the same feelings that monsoon does, in that I will vote for McCain just to make my point clear that I do not want Clinton in office. It is unfortunate that she has dug this hole for herself and the party, but I'll be damned if I want what has happened in the primaries lately to happen in the White House.

[Charlotte_native]

Of course now I would wager that many of those that had backed Clinton earlier in the primaries are now regretting their support for her tactics now that her true self has come out. If she did somehow manage to get the nomination I could see where many previous Clinton supporters would simply jump ship to McCain just to avoid electing her into office. I would certainly be one of those.

There was a time in the early process of this primary where I would have voted for Clinton if she had gotten the final nomination for the democratic party, no questions asked. I now have the same feelings that monsoon does, in that I will vote for McCain just to make my point clear that I do not want Clinton in office. It is unfortunate that she has dug this hole for herself and the party, but I'll be damned if I want what has happened in the primaries lately to happen in the White House.

[Charlotte_native]

but after events in NC I talked with her for a brief amount of time about several issues that are close to my heart. She grasped my hands and assured me that if she won, then she was going to fight for me.

[Justadude]

Also ask why GOP'ers are always on air talking about Hillary being more electable or better qualified than Barack. Why did Limbaugh tell everyone that could in primaries to vote for her? They know who is really more 'electable'. They know who their core supporters will line up to fight against with far more gusto. Think about it.

[monsoon]

Indeed. And this hollow claim that "she has won the popular vote" is achieved by excluding the Virgin Islands and all states that held a caucus instead of a primary. 1 in 5 voters. It's amazing the media lets her get away with crap such as this.