Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[ah59396]

Ha ha, I was hoping to go as well if I could squeeze out of work at a decent time....didn't happen for me.

[Kenneth Disraili-Jean]

Atlanta's 10 county district will be voting in November on a 7 billion transit and transportation bill that will add a penny sales tax to everything within this 10 county zone. I do not know how many Georgia has but the entire state was divided into districts so say, South Georgia could not say "Atlanta" was getting all the money, but it is estimated the area needs 28 billion. If passed most freeway interchanges ( especially the busy ones) will be rebuilt with one topping out at an eight stack (level) interchange. MARTA will be done away with and we will have a bus system as well as our heavy-rail (subway) system that will cover all 10 counties. The newly named bus and heavy-rail system will expand the Blue Line, Green Line, and Red Lines.

So I hope this way of working around the Federal Government will work. Good luck on your Lynx Blue Line.

[ah59396]

Good luck! As Atlanta continues to add density, a premiere transportation network will certainly be a necessity!

[Kenneth Disraili-Jean]

If I am not mistaken there are only 10 Heavy-Rail systems in the United States: New York City(2), Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and Miami.

None have been built since the last system in Miami opened. One advantage is the trains can be configured from 2 cars to 8 and can travel over 70 miles an hour, however the cost is not feasable, so our heavy-rail system has proposed a Purple line from the Arts Center subway station and traveling N.W. to Atlantic Station and the Brookwood District, but it would be light rail. The extention of the Gold Line traveling N.E. would travel into Gwinnett County and would also be light rail. The Red Line travels North and they want to eventually take it about 8 miles up to Northpoint Mall. They said it too would be light rail. The Blue Line westbound would add an extra station, the Blue Line eastbound would continue a Heavy-Rail trunk line that will travel to the CDC and Emory University, but you know how it is, some are screaming why do they get Heavy-Rail and we only get Light-Rail, or Heavy-Rail is too distructive and intrusive and Light-Rail would work better. Gosh, I am so glad I am not on the Rapid Transit Commitee, so I want to ask, since we lack Light-Rail, which do you think is better, which is less destuctive on the enviroment, and can Light-Rail also travel underground in tunnels like Heavy-Rail, and how many cars (max) can be hooked together to carry the most people?

Edited November 6, 2011 by Kenneth Disraili-Jean

[southslider]

Light rail is the most flexible, as it can run anywhere, whether slower or faster environments. In most cities (Baltimore, Dallas, Denver, Minneapolis, Portland), light rail runs in Downtown streets without any control gates at intersections, but still as exclusive tracks. In some cities (Newark, Seattle, St. Louis), light rail even runs underground in Downtown tunnels. In Charlotte, our elevated tracks and minimal crossings make for a system more like heavy rail, similar to those with significant underground and elevated segments.

But expanding a "metro-light" system does come at a cost. In St. Louis, the first light rail line re-used old railroad right-of-way, including its tunnels and Mississippi River bridge at the bargain-basement price of $30 million a mile (1993). But then, the first branch extension to their secondary CBD (Clayton) kept the "metro-light" conditions, including new tunnels, at $80 million a mile (2005). For comparison, Charlotte's Blue Line, also former railroad right-of-way, was only $40 million a mile (2007), while the Blue Line Extension, largely new or retrofitted right-of-way, will cost around $100 million a mile (2016).

[ah59396]

^

I think southsider pretty much hit the nail on the head with that description. Flexibility is the true appeal of light rail. And for the record, I'm glad we treat it like a heavy rail network in Charlotte. While costly, I think it has helped in generating greater ridership numbers.

[Kenneth Disraili-Jean]

Ok, that is a whole lot less than Heavy-Rail that runs around 175 million a mile for subway/elevated, and only a little less for At-Grade portions. I agree after reading these post, that our transportation leadership has the right idea with going with Light-Rail.

Since the Red, Gold, Green, and Blue Lines converge at the transportation hub known as the Five Points Station and the entire system is uninteruped traveling underground through Downtown and Midtown, all they need to do is hook on the light rail. I know at the last station it would have to be reconfigured to transfer from a Heavy-Rail system and then to the platforms for light rail, it still would save billions of dollars than going all Heavy-Rail. Atlanta payed a heavy price when the tore down historic buildings and dug down almost 10 stories to build the massive Five Points Station. Other parts of downtown and Midtown suffered from the cut and cover method of building Atlanta's subway. Streets had iron sheets and wood over them while the tunnels were dug, and in some areas, you had to walk on these swinging type bridges to finally connect to a street that was not torn up. Was all this worth it, I do not think so, and I wish Atlanta had done like many other major cities and just built a completely light rail system. Building a Heavy-Rail system is a detrement to the enviroment and unforgiving to what it has torn away. In the Buckhead District where I live, we had to put up with 3 shifts making noises I have never heard of to build the northbound Red Line in the medium of one of our freeways. Thanks for the answers, oh and sorry I forgot about the Heavy-Rail system in Washington, D.C.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Kenneth Disraili-Jean

[tozmervo]

^and yet, the installation of the heavy rail system is still beans compared to the destruction of entire neighborhoods to build the freeway system. and the noise of that system is contained underground as opposed to the constant 75-80db drone of a freeway that makes living near one a noisy proposition. ultimately light rail does have a "lighter footprint" than heavy rail, but I'd take a subway and it's cons any day over 14 lanes.

[Urbanity]

Mayor Foxx said that his two top priorities in his second term are diversifying the economy and getting Lynx to UNC Charlotte

[ah59396]

Pol-o-tics aside, I'm happy to see that we still have urban transporation supporters in office in Charlotte!

[Urbanity]

Pol-o-tics aside, I'm happy to see that we still have urban transporation supporters in office in Charlotte!

Agreed which is what I was trying to relay. I hope it wasn't taken as pushing politics.

[ah59396]

^ No worries, I think we are on the same page! I was trying to say the same thing, again w/out pushing politics! Also happy to hear what is going on in the ATL.

[hambone931]

A friend told me that the light rail service would be stopping at the Bland Street station and not going uptown for safety reasons during the DNC next year. Does anyone know if this is true?

[tozmervo]

CATS hasn't made any plans public. My bus driver last night said they hadn't even told them anything yet. My hunch is that 3rd St Station would be the end point, keeping trains from running beside the arena. Bland St is totally random.

[49er]

I wouldn't be surprised if the entire bus terminal is temporarily relocated to a surface lot somewhere.

[southslider]

^Perhaps, it's because the last track crossover before the Arena is between Bland and Carson. Beyond that, you can't turn a train around until north of the CTC/Arena station via the crossover between there and the 7th Street station.

[AuLukey]

I'm sorry, i'm all for safety. But does it make sense for us NOT to show off our fancy new, successful transit system to half the people in congress? Seems like we could get the "oh yea" nod when it came time to ask for more funding down the road. Just sayin

On a side note, good thing the BLE wasn't finished when originally projected (back when the current line was still under construction.) Would've be awkward to have the entire line split in half.

[ah59396]

^

On the note of safety, all of Uptown is going to be a mess that week, getting in and out via any mode of transportation will be insane. Since trains appear to be a usual terrorist target, I think it is pretty much a guarantee at this point that it wont go any farther than Bland or 3rd St. at best.

That being said, I can't imagine the pro-transit dems wont spend the whole week touring the line in south end and touting the development that has resulted from it. It and we, will get plenty of exposure.

[dubone]

It would be nice if they took this a lesson, as this is bound to happen again in the future if that is really considered too close to the arena for security sensitive events. It seems that they should add to the long term plans a connector to the Gateway Station. Eventually that will be the second transit hub for the city according to the plans, and it was always criticized as dumb to not have connectivity between the blue line and the red line.

It's a 1/2 mile of track to get to the other rail corridor. I'm sure they could carve out some right of way along Carson (which is already an insanely over-sized street anyway due to its history as part of Independence Blvd). Then in the longer term you can both have the red line carry through to connect to the Blue Line, and/or have the Blue Line re-route to the eventually-built Gateway Station. In fact, once you're too that railroad corridor, it can be followed to meet back up with the Blue Line corridor on the south side of the rail yards.

At minimum, they should engineer the possibility and protect the right of way along Carson before it gets built up too far. As a LONG term strategy, this is a major oversight. You CANNOT have the core of your transit system completely shut down during events that actually need that system to be functioning. Even if it is not a problem we can solve in the next 15 years, there is no reason they shouldn't recognize that we've reached a new level as a city from 10-15 years ago when the high level plans for the transit system were devised. It seems this should be on the list for correction.

[southslider]

^I like the idea of tracks on Carson. I've always thought of that as the path to connect the Blue Line someday with service to the Airport out Wilkinson Boulevard.

But as for running Blue Line trains over to the NCRR tracks serving Gateway Station, you can't have light rail vehicles travel the SAME tracks as freight traffic. Only heavier commuter and passenger trains, such as those planned for the Red Line, can do so. As such, you would have to build more than a half mile of new track on Carson, but also another half mile up along the NCRR to actually reach Gateway.

[ah59396]

^ I think that it was dubone was suggesting.

[dubone]

The Red Line will not use the N-S tracks in uptown, also I believe they are still looking at putting the vehicle maintenance south of Gateway Station, too, so the extra track would not be that significant. Let's be clear, this will cost money, and I don't think it ought to be prioritized ahead of the BLE and Red line or even the streetcar. However, we should not stop planning for the long term, and start putting ideas on the books for later, especially one that resolves a few key problems with the system - that is has a ridiculous disconnection. Not to mention, Gateway Station will also (in the long term) be the point where High Speed Rail arrives in Charlotte. Real cities have solid transit connections to their main train stations.

[Windsurfer]

Your mini loop and maintenance shelter could also be located in proximity to the end of the line from Gastonia. Thus, it would be a great tie-in to that direction. The lines that ran Westward out of downtown are, for the most part, still there (across the street from The Foundry on Cedar)

[ah59396]

I know there is a hearing or discussion going on sometime this week regarding how to fund the Red Line. Any one know the when and where of this? Has it already happened? What are horse shoes?

[kermit]

I know there is a hearing or discussion going on sometime this week regarding how to fund the Red Line. Any one know the when and where of this? Has it already happened? What are horse shoes?

According to a large CBJ story on the red line revision the business plan discussing funding details for the new mixed-use rail line was scheduled to be released on "November 30th." The next step in the process appears to be:

All of the participating governing bodies would be asked to reach consensus on building and paying for the rail line by June, with construction starting in 2014.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2011/11/18/red-line-remake.html?page=all