Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[kermit]

^ How much of that is because Charlotte had a ton of open/abandoned lots with little real estate prospect - and because the city rezoned huge swaths of land in one swoop to make development easier. I wonder if the other cities had proven real estate in the area before the lines.

I have not read the report closely yet but my initial review finds that the majority of the Charlotte development discussed in the report is in uptown. Thus projects like Duke Energy center, the Vue etc. are credited as TOD while I would consider those projects as only tangentially related to the blue line.

[AuLukey]

Speaking of TOD, I wonder if the blue line ending at UNCC now will mean that the proposed BOA complex at Mallard Creek Ch Rd and Tryon will be cancelled or relocated. It was proposed to be across the street from the MCCRd LRT station for that very reason (despite the swath of parking on site which would suggest otherwise.)

[southslider]

^I doubt it. The station had already moved up the hill away from Tryon by the time they announced their plans. And their plans aren't very TOD-like anyhow.

[New Name]

It appears that tonight is the night that City of Charlotte officially applies for the State Full Funding Agreement for the Northeast BLE. http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/CityClerk/CouncilRelated/Documents/Agenda%20Attachments/2011/04-25-2011%20Meeting/5.pdf

No surprise, but it's always nice to know that the wheels are still turning (and not flying off).

[Sabaidee]

I'm so eager for this project because it'll affect me personally, so after the SFFA, the Federal Agreement won't be far behind. In Obama transportation budget, while CATS didn't get any money for the BLE, it was listed for a possible funding for next year.

[kermit]

From the observer: http://www.charlotte...or-airport.html

Gold also said the Federal Transit Administration has penciled in money for the Charlotte Area Transit System's Lynx Blue Extension, from uptown to UNC Charlotte.

He said President Barack Obama's budget lists the extension, which he said was an important step.

The city lobbyist expects a signed FFGA in 'late 2012'

Good (if soft) news. I do have some concerns about the state portion of the funds given the recent behavior of our new legislature.

[kermit]

The senate transportation budget has proposed the following 'gift' for the queen city:

Kill $41.4 million in funds earmarked over the next two years for urban transit including a project to extend Charlotte’s Blue Line light-rail service to the UNC-Charlotte campus -- leaving that project “dead in the water,” according to a Charlotte lobbyist.

http://blogs.newsobs...-not-cap-gas-ta

The even sadder part was discussing where some of the cash would be diverted:

and divert the money to [...] help build urban loop highways.

Edited May 24, 2011 by kermit

[abttown]

Did any of us expect more from our current state legislature? We have the time, why not take a few steps back! I do agree with killing the Garden Parkway, that idea was just stupid.

[New Name]

This won't actually pass, will it?

[cltbwimob]

^^^Perdue is already threatening a veto, although according to most news agencies, that's based education spending not transit.

[HopHead]

The thought of cutting off funding for the Light Rail so it becomes dead in the water, is idiotic at best. Hopefully Perdue (and our local leaders) will find a way to scrap that cut from the budget. Otherwise, we need to head over to Raleigh and put the smackdown on some these bafoons. More highways? Come on. They can't even finish what they started here! If they cut the light rail extension there will be more congestion on the interstates that people will whine and complain about. < end of rant >

[New Name]

Can someone explain to me how the NC budget works? If I have heard correctly, this is a state where the budget must be balanced. There must be no debt from year to year, right? Does this include things like earmarks for big projects? Is this why money for the light rail is often referred to using the term "projection" money? If so, this budget is simply a battle of what money to forecast for what project (and I agree, forecasting money for loop roads is so misguided).

[kermit]

perhaps I have misjudged Thom Tillis:

A day after the N.C. Senate released a budget with no money for Charlotte's light rail extension, House Speaker Thom Tillis said today he believes it will be in the General Assembly's final spending plan.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/05/25/2325213/tillis-rail-money-might-return.html#ixzz1NNywl6Tv

It does seem like lots of stars need to be perfectly aligned for the BLE to get completed in my lifetime. Not only does the state money need to be allocated but sales tax revenues need to not drop again. When you combine the new uncertainty at the state level with a rapidly evolving federal government attitude towards transit I have more heebeegeebees about the BLE now than I have had in the past several years.

[Sabaidee]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/05/31/2340200/light-rail-money-back-in-budget.html

Yes, it seems like money for BLE is back on track and provision barring the NCDOT from touching the Red Line has been removed.

[jednc]

I just returned from a trip to Houston. While I was there I made it a point to ride their light rail line (again). While riding, I had one thought in mind. I wanted to compare the way they laid their track in the lanes of city streets versus the dedicated path that Charlotte's existing rail line takes. I know there have been collisions in Houston between cars/pedestrians and the train, a couple with fatal results. However, I believe these accidents have decreased in frequency as Houstonians got used to the presence of the train.

I have to believe that constructing a line the way Houston did would be MUCH cheaper than the way Charlotte has approached it. In a perfect world, I think the added expense has given Charlotte's line some advantages over Houston's, but I do think Houston's line has some advantages to Charlotte's aside from cost. With costs fluxuating and money continuing to be tight, I wonder if building a line Houston's way would be a worthwhile experiment here in Charlotte.

I'd rather have a Houston type line sooner, than Charlotte's later or not at all if costs ever get too out of control. What am I not considering?

[kermit]

I'd rather have a Houston type line sooner, than Charlotte's later or not at all if costs ever get too out of control. What am I not considering?

Speed.

If the LRT is no faster than the traffic which surrounds it then people will have little motivation to give up their cars.

[nonillogical]

Speed.

If the LRT is no faster than the traffic which surrounds it then people will have little motivation to give up their cars.

Agreed. I think a dedicated line like the existing blue line is better suited to service a (currently) more sprawly city. Houston is very dense and low speed lines make more sense there.

[Urbanity]

Agreed with the above. Charlotte is lucky to have dedicated right of ways for its LRT. Now if we want to talk about the long delayed streetcar...

[krazeeboi]

Agreed. I think a dedicated line like the existing blue line is better suited to service a (currently) more sprawly city. Houston is very dense and low speed lines make more sense there.

I guess you mean relative to Charlotte.

[nonillogical]

I guess you mean relative to Charlotte.

Well yeah. While the most dense parts of Charlotte and Houston are sort of similar, the inner ring neighborhoods and midtown areas of Houston are much denser and extend much farther from the core. We're more dependent on our main roads here since we don't have as many consistently gridded neighborhoods, so it would be especially tough to put lightrail down the middle of those heavily-driven roads. It would be a nightmare on South or N. Tryon, since those drivers don't have many other options.

[jednc]

Well yeah. While the most dense parts of Charlotte and Houston are sort of similar, the inner ring neighborhoods and midtown areas of Houston are much denser and extend much farther from the core. We're more dependent on our main roads here since we don't have as many consistently gridded neighborhoods, so it would be especially tough to put lightrail down the middle of those heavily-driven roads. It would be a nightmare on South or N. Tryon, since those drivers don't have many other options.

The streets in Houston that were chosen to share the light rail appear to have been carefully chosen...they don't appear to have ever been major throughfares. That was one thing that struck me as I rode the line, that they were able to achieve the route they wanted without compromising any major streets. Now, some major steets were crossed, but the traffic lights were timed/obeyed so the crossing was no big deal.

I think speed is a good point though. While the ride did not feel slow at all, there was a certain amount of stopping and starting for traffic lights, etc. They did have a greater frequency of trains than we do here in Charlotte, so wait times were very small...under 5 minutes in the middle of the workday.

[Sabaidee]

I think the BLE will be comparable to Houston once the BLE reaches University City in the terms of major crossing, but our major crossings won't be in denser urban area and then the BLE will have more overpasses also. Also Houston has a greater frequency is b/c its line is shorter thus allowing more flexibility in timing.

[cltbwimob]

I just returned from a trip to Houston. While I was there I made it a point to ride their light rail line (again). While riding, I had one thought in mind. I wanted to compare the way they laid their track in the lanes of city streets versus the dedicated path that Charlotte's existing rail line takes. I know there have been collisions in Houston between cars/pedestrians and the train, a couple with fatal results. However, I believe these accidents have decreased in frequency as Houstonians got used to the presence of the train.

I have to believe that constructing a line the way Houston did would be MUCH cheaper than the way Charlotte has approached it. In a perfect world, I think the added expense has given Charlotte's line some advantages over Houston's, but I do think Houston's line has some advantages to Charlotte's aside from cost. With costs fluxuating and money continuing to be tight, I wonder if building a line Houston's way would be a worthwhile experiment here in Charlotte.

I'd rather have a Houston type line sooner, than Charlotte's later or not at all if costs ever get too out of control. What am I not considering?

If the ULI plan is adopted for the SE corridor, I think it would be good for the city to do a an LRT line in Monroe Rd. rather than streetcar. Although I am still hoping that LRT is placed along Independence. Independence needs help; even though I know some will say that there is no market for development along a Freeway running LRT line, Denver's line has brought about some $6 billion in investment. I am sure people who live in that area would be thrilled to have private developers invest $6 billlion in their area. But I digress...

[kermit]

More pessimistic news about funding for the blueline extension. This time its threats to the federal funding via proposed cuts to the new starts program in the house.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/print-edition/2011/07/08/rail-plan-caught-in-budget-fight.html

How many near death experiences are we going to have to survive?

[cltbwimob]

More pessimistic news about funding for the blueline extension. This time its threats to the federal funding via proposed cuts to the new starts program in the house.

http://www.bizjourna...dget-fight.html

How many near death experiences are we going to have to survive?

I am a little less worried about this one. For starters, it's not a full denial of new starts grants. Secondly it is not even out of committee yet. Thirdly the dems control the Senate and the White House.