Charlotte's Light Rail: Lynx Blue Line

[tozmervo]

21 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Security sweeps were ridiculous and not needed imho. 

My observation has been that most people are holding CATS responsible for the security changes, when in fact CATS is following the marching orders of the City & CMPD. It's not like upending the transit system is something they were looking to do. 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Fair enough. I'm sure CMPD enjoyed the OT 

[CLT2014]

Do we know if the FBI and Department of Homeland Security played any role in implementing the security sweeps as well? My guess is those agencies could have also felt a security sweep was necessary. 

Also... the way these types of things go is when nothing happens people complain. However if a horrible event happened outside the stadium like at the soccer stadiums in Europe or the concert in Manchester and it involved the light rail, we'd all be much much more angry at CATS. People would be looking at who to blame when trying to explain tragedies. Article headlines across the country of "Leaders Failed to Mitigate Risk or Train Running Adjacent to Stadium" don't look good. 

Edited February 19, 2019 by CLT2014

[tozmervo]

It's referred to elsewhere on UP, but CATS is allotting capital budget to a new "Southend station" in their 5-year capital budget, pending approval. $19.4 million total, which does include some private funds. I haven't seen specific plans, but presumably this locates a station somewhere along the line around Publix to Atherton Mill. 

The figures can be seen here: https://charlottenc.gov/cats/about/boards/MTC Agenda Package/MTC-Agenda-Package-190123.pdf#search=southend station

[Matthew.Brendan]

Surely it will be built to accommodate 3-car trains.... right? 

or will we end up with another case of "we'll pay more to do it later rather than do it right the first time"

[tozmervo]

9 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

Surely it will be built to accommodate 3-car trains.... right? 

or will we end up with another case of "we'll pay more to do it later rather than do it right the first time"

They did it right the first time. Had they not reduced the stations to two-car trains, we would have zero light rail today.

[Matthew.Brendan]

I think the point is all new stations on the Extension were built to support 3 cars, so hopefully any new station built from here on out would also support 3 cars.

I know they need to retrofit and extend the stations on the original portion to support 3 cars, I just want to make sure that this new station being built @ Atherton will surely be built to accommodate 3 cars? 

[DavieNative]

2 hours ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

I think the point is all new stations on the Extension were built to support 3 cars, so hopefully any new station built from here on out would also support 3 cars.

I know they need to retrofit and extend the stations on the original portion to support 3 cars, I just want to make sure that this new station being built @ Atherton will surely be built to accommodate 3 cars? 

As far as I know several stations have already been extended. When Cats can find the money they will go ahead and extend the rest of them. Shouldn't be that difficult for them to get it done. They just have bigger fish to fry right now.

[kermit]

^ Better frequency before longer trains!

(my 2 cents)

[CLT704]

Would it be possible to run 3-car trains anyway and just keep certain doors closed at the very front and end, à la London Underground at stations with short platforms,

[kermit]

10 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

Would it be possible to run 3-car trains anyway and just keep certain doors closed at the very front and end, à la London Underground at stations with short platforms,

Nope. No access between units (like on the Overground) and CATS does not have the proper equipment to communicate that one car is operating differently than the others.

 

[southslider]

3 hours ago, DavieNative said:

As far as I know several stations have already been extended. When Cats can find the money they will go ahead and extend the rest of them. Shouldn't be that difficult for them to get it done. They just have bigger fish to fry right now.

Three of the existing stations were extended, but Lewis nixed the rest, even after plans had started.

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, southslider said:

Three of the existing stations were extended, but Lewis nixed the rest, even after plans had started.

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Three stations were extended with the use of a TIGER grant, there was never money for more. In fact I believe the original plan was just for 485 and Stonewall, but they were able to add in Woodlawn and the electrical upgrades for 3-car capacity. (I think 7th was extended as part of BLE?)

[kermit]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Three stations were extended with the use of a TIGER grant, there was never money for more. In fact I believe the original plan was just for 485 and Stonewall, but they were able to add in Woodlawn and the electrical upgrades for 3-car capacity. (I think 7th was extended as part of BLE?)

I believe the Core Capacity Expansion Grant that was planned to fund expansion at the remaining stations was already written and submitted when Lewis pulled the plug on it (I believe Lewis had to send a letter to FTA to withdraw the grant application from consideration). If evaluated as planned it would have been acted on  by an Anthony Fox led DOT (IIRC).

All of the struck out stuff is BS. See the post below

("frequency increase before platform expansion!!!" [old man screams to clouds]. Lewis certainly isn't working on increasing frequencies either)

Edited February 21, 2019 by kermit

[tozmervo]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

I believe the Core Capacity Expansion Grant that was planned to fund expansion at the remaining stations was already written and submitted when Lewis pulled the plug on it (I believe Lewis had to send a letter to FTA to withdraw the grant application from consideration). If evaluated as planned it would have been acted on  by an Anthony Fox led DOT (IIRC).

("frequency increase before platform expansion!!!" [old man screams to clouds]. Lewis certainly isn't working on increasing frequencies either)

Gotcha, tnx. When I did a search for more information, this post was the second link

 

 

[kermit]

37 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

Gotcha, tnx. When I did a search for more information, this post was the second link

 

 

LOL. 2018 me was WAYYYY more knowledgeable than 2019 me. Old age is sad.

Good job searching. I will slink away and struggle with some profound existential issues now.

Edited February 21, 2019 by kermit

[southslider]

2 hours ago, tozmervo said:

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Three stations were extended with the use of a TIGER grant, there was never money for more. In fact I believe the original plan was just for 485 and Stonewall, but they were able to add in Woodlawn and the electrical upgrades for 3-car capacity. (I think 7th was extended as part of BLE?)

Basing it on the people I knew who worked on the project until Lewis killed it. 

[kermit]

So, I am concerned about capacity.

The problem isn't evident from ridership data, but peak hour service (especially in the afternoon) is seriously crunched from CTC South. Just about every train leaving CTC heading South between 5 and 6 is butt-to-nut crush loaded.  While its tempting to shrug this off as 'its just for an hour a day,' Uptown's banker-oriented labor market (which is less flexible than most in terms of business hours) means that potential new riders may see the 5-6pm crowding as a deal breaker for rail commutes.  This would be a shame since it appears that more banker jobs are on their way to Uptown.

There are two obvious ways to fix this problem, more capacity (three car trains), or higher frequency. Either strategy will require additional equipment since I believe CATS runs nearly every vehicle they have at peak. Higher frequency trains every 5 minutes (instead of 7) is (IMO) the best option since the improve frequencies will make the BLE more attractive to riders (less waiting), address the capacity crunch South of town AND make the prospects of Silver Line riders transferring to the Blue Line more reasonable (three car trains only achieves one of these things).

It is my great hope that CATS digs into its capital budget (transit tax revenues have been above expectations lately) to purchase additional S70s for the Blue Line (around $5 million each?). The bigger challenge is finding the $$$ for increased operational costs -- but perhaps whatever the big bang funding turns out to be it could include funds to immediately increase Blue Line capacity.

The extra irritating part of this is (IIRC) the BLE Grant Agreement was based on 10 minute off peak frequency and 5 minute peak frequency -- how did CATS get away with not delivering this level of service?

Edited March 8, 2019 by kermit

[JacksonH]

38 minutes ago, kermit said:

So, I am concerned about capacity.

The problem isn't evident from ridership data, but peak hour service (especially in the afternoon) is seriously crunched from CTC South. Just about every train leaving CTC heading South between 5 and 6 is butt-to-nut crush loaded.  While its tempting to shrug this off as 'its just for an hour a day,' Uptown's banker-oriented labor market (which is less flexible than most in terms of business hours) means that potential new riders may see the 5-6pm crowding as a deal breaker for rail commutes.  This would be a shame since it appears that more banker jobs are on their way to Uptown.

There are two obvious ways to fix this problem, more capacity (three car trains), or higher frequency. Either strategy will require additional equipment since I believe CATS runs nearly every vehicle they have at peak. Higher frequency trains every 5 minutes (instead of 7) is (IMO) the best option since the improve frequencies will make the BLE more attractive to riders (less waiting), address the capacity crunch South of town AND make the prospects of Silver Line riders transferring to the Blue Line more reasonable (three car trains only achieves one of these things).

It is my great hope that CATS digs into its capital budget (transit tax revenues have been above expectations lately) to purchase additional S70s for the Blue Line (around $5 million each?). The bigger challenge is finding the $$$ for increased operational costs -- but perhaps whatever the big bang funding turns out to be it could include funds to immediately increase Blue Line capacity.

The extra irritating part of this is (IIRC) the BLE Grant Agreement was based on 10 minute off peak frequency and 5 minute peak frequency -- how did CATS get away with not delivering this level of service?

There should be a coordinated effort among city officials, not just within CATS.  If more office and residential development is created north of CTC (to shift riders to the north and also situate more people as residents of UT),  more overall residential development in UT (making it possible for more people to walk to their jobs), and more live/work (office and residential) in South End (again raising the possibility of people walking to their jobs as well as not needed to go UT), then those trains going south from CTC will be less crowded. 

[EllAyyDub]

20 minutes ago, JacksonH said:

There should be a coordinated effort among city officials, not just within CATS.  If more office and residential development is created north of CTC (to shift riders to the north and also situate more people as residents of UT),  more overall residential development in UT (making it possible for more people to walk to their jobs), and more live/work (office and residential) in South End (again raising the possibility of people walking to their jobs as well as not needed to go UT), then those trains going south from CTC will be less crowded. 

I don't think this would change the ridership south from uptown at 5.  New development as you laid out would increase ridership north, not diminish ridership south.  As more people move here and live/work in the new developments, the older building stock doesn't just go empty.  People aren't going to stop living in South End and working in Uptown.  That said more ridership would make it more likely the frequency would be increased.

[JacksonH]

10 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

I don't think this would change the ridership south from uptown at 5.  New development as you laid out would increase ridership north, not diminish ridership south.  As more people move here and live/work in the new developments, the older building stock doesn't just go empty.  People aren't going to stop living in South End and working in Uptown.  That said more ridership would make it more likely the frequency would be increased.

What I'm saying is more residential options in UT means more people who can walk to UT jobs, and maybe some that currently are commuting to the south will move UT.  And more office and residential to the north will prevent a worsening of what's going on from CTC to the south and also provide more options for people living in the south to move to the north.  And more live/work/play options in South End where people can live and work there and not have to travel back and forth from UT would also curb the crowding.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JacksonH

[CLTranspo]

That’s not how metro area commuting patterns work. The ridership that’s there is not going to go down because of new development on the other side of town, or a more balanced mix of development in south end. More residential options on the north end may slow ridership growth to the south, but they won’t take away from current ridership significantly. 

[Scribe]

22 hours ago, kermit said:

The extra irritating part of this is (IIRC) the BLE Grant Agreement was based on 10 minute off peak frequency and 5 minute peak frequency -- how did CATS get away with not delivering this level of service?

I recall same and want the same question answered. I've tried to get CATS to answer it, but have gotten nowhere with my attempts.

[elrodvt]

More frequent trains, and not just at peak times, would make the system a lot better. Extra cars oth only helps the rush hour crowd.

Also I can't understand why they don't queue up some extra trains for hornets games. A lot of people leave early to catch the train prior to the game ending. Otherwise you're standing all the way to 485.

Overall the attitude seems to be one of complacency.

[southslider]

9 hours ago, Scribe said:

 I've tried to get CATS to answer it, but have gotten nowhere with my attempts.

We apologize for the inconvenience. 

2 hours ago, elrodvt said:

Overall the attitude seems to be one of complacency.

We apologize for the inconvenience. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by southslider