Charlotte Residential Tower Rumors

[dubone]

Correction: I misinterpreted the sentence about using Packard as offices. I thought they meant their own offices, but now I see they just mean offices in general while their own office is in IJL. Hopefully they are just waiting out the leases and will build there sooner than later.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

What do y'all think the chances of the Giant Cement Plant getting nocked down and replaced with a tower? Maybe just wishfull thinking.

[Rickydavisfan21]

hate the idea, I love the Cement Plant, for some reason that I can't explain, it adds a lil grit to our downtown that is quickly losing all of just that, grit. Its always cool driving down 277 and seeing it, its like when I am going accross the Talmage bridge in savannah, and the first thing you see is a giant cement plant, it adds some strange character to both the cities.

[tiblerbrit]

Are we talking about the one with the Budweiser billboard next to it; sort of near Graham Street? If so, I know what you mean, I think its cool.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

Are we talking about the one with the Budweiser billboard next to it; sort of near Graham Street? If so, I know what you mean, I think its cool.

I wonder if Lofts could be inside of those silo thingies? That would be kinda cool. Especially if it was repainted. I don't mind it being there, just think it needs some work. There is a lot of grit to the east of 277, like N. Graham street.

[dubone]

Well, that isn't a cement plant. It is Archer-Daniels-Midland, and it is a grain mill that goes to baking our bread. It is probably 90% likely that it will be removed as part of the necessary railroad track reconfiguration that will go along with the the new Gateway Multi-Modal Station at Trade Street.

I guess no one was excited to read about a possible new condo tower in a 20s-era building just next to The Square. It is hard to upstage the Hall of Fame . I 'm glad to have yet another group of new residents (if it happens) to downtown, and this time a productive reuse for an 80 year old building.

[SmellyCat]

It's funny...for some reason I think many people think that the grain mill is a cement plant (even colleagues I know who aren't on UP). Is there a cement sign there, or something?

[dubone]

You could probably make a building out of flour from that mill. But you'd need a lot of royal icing and gumdrops to piece them together .

There is a major concrete plant at Sugar Creek near Tryon.

It also might be that the same kinds of trucks that move flour around are the same as typically move concrete powder around. Or maybe some people just don't know what ADM does, I'm not sure.

[turbocraig]

There is a brick warehouse building just east of the ADM plant that says "Giant Cement Co" on it. At least that's what I think it says. The painted sign is old and fading, but I think people automatically associate that warehouse with the adjacent grain plant. They're two separate entities.

[crispin]

I wonder if Lofts could be inside of those silo thingies? That would be kinda cool. Especially if it was repainted. I don't mind it being there, just think it needs some work. There is a lot of grit to the east of 277, like N. Graham street.

Such a thing actually exists in Akron, Ohio -- a Crowne Plaza Hotel built into the original silos of the Quaker Oats Company. And it is really cool:

Quaker Oats Crowne Plaza

[turbocraig]

I hadn't seen that conversion before, but there's another one that I read about within the past year. This other one was condos though... I wish I could remember where it was. It was really cool. The windows were cut sporadically into the structure. It really made a visual impact. Alas, I fear our ADM plant only has a date with a wrecking ball...

[Rickydavisfan21]

Funny story about this, My dad and I used to always argue about the mill, I said Cement and he said grain, my father is 59 now I should have listened to him, I always said cement because of a sign in front of it, that was about cement, and he said it was grain, I thought I had the upperhand because well, I drive through downtown a lot. I just called him up to appologize for all those times he was right.

[appatone]

I think it would be cool to see it lit up with multi-colored lights at night. Sort of done up like public art.

[dubone]

I always liked the idea of them simply painting it a variety of primary colors. There is a mill near the freeway in downtown Hartford I saw once that really just looked like a fisher price toy or something. The colors really made it seem much less nasty, somehow.

But in this case, we probably can't hope for any investment in it at all.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14027578.htm

With Novare opening up their second office in Charlotte, it will be interesting to see if they start announcing as many towers as they have been in headquarters city. The article says we will be the "largest operation outside of Atlanta."

Right now they have a practically sold out tower under construction, a newly announced hotel tower project in First Ward, a land purchase and potential land purchase in Third Ward, and rumors of interest in South Park.

Considering the low price point that Novare offers at, it seems that their business model really could allow for a half dozen new towers.

Downtowns are basically transportation infrastructure, dense jobs, dense living, and visitor attractions (retail, entertainment, and arts). Furman has done a tremendous job of increasing the residents downtown, but with the density and price point that Novare seems to be delivering throughout the SouthEast, they might turn out to bring forth a significant number of new urban units. The ideal would be if Furman continues to do low and midrise downtown and nearby, while occassionally doing an architecturally-unique tower. Then Novare can keep churning out value-highrises to bring critical mass. The luxury market might be tapped out for a while by Vue and 210 Trade, with miscellaneous developers adding those if/as needed.

It is a huge deal, in my opinion, for Novare to be building a second office here, as it signals optimism and confidence in the Charlotte market.

The quote that Charlotte has "more of a true urban core than any city in the Southeast" is interesting, and frankly a bit shocking to me. Obviously it is just one man's opinion, but it is great to see that we are coming along so strong that this can even be said of us. It wasn't that long that we had a main street and a sea of parking lots behind it. There is still too many voids for my liking, but I think we really are continuing to build in a very dense pattern, with the lots being slowly but surely removed as the market can bear.

In the past it seemed like a huge shame that the speculation and subsequent operation of the land as parking lots had driven up the prices and left them barren for a long time. But now that developers like Novare are able to add density enough to afford the land, we might have hit the point where those lots fall like dominoes. We'll see.

I had personally thought we were done with announcements downtown, beyond what we can squeeze from the public sector. This Novare announcement has me thinking we are in store for even more.

[atlrvr]

I wonder if Lofts could be inside of those silo thingies? That would be kinda cool. Especially if it was repainted. I don't mind it being there, just think it needs some work. There is a lot of grit to the east of 277, like N. Graham street.

I actually know of a structural engineer who considered this but it was quite cost prohibitive.

[ElricSeven]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/14027578.htm

With Novare opening up their second office in Charlotte, it will be interesting to see if they start announcing as many towers as they have been in headquarters city. The article says we will be the "largest operation outside of Atlanta."

Right now they have a practically sold out tower under construction, a newly announced hotel tower project in First Ward, a land purchase and potential land purchase in Third Ward, and rumors of interest in South Park.

Considering the low price point that Novare offers at, it seems that their business model really could allow for a half dozen new towers.

Downtowns are basically transportation infrastructure, dense jobs, dense living, and visitor attractions (retail, entertainment, and arts). Furman has done a tremendous job of increasing the residents downtown, but with the density and price point that Novare seems to be delivering throughout the SouthEast, they might turn out to bring forth a significant number of new urban units. The ideal would be if Furman continues to do low and midrise downtown and nearby, while occassionally doing an architecturally-unique tower. Then Novare can keep churning out value-highrises to bring critical mass. The luxury market might be tapped out for a while by Vue and 210 Trade, with miscellaneous developers adding those if/as needed.

It is a huge deal, in my opinion, for Novare to be building a second office here, as it signals optimism and confidence in the Charlotte market.

The quote that Charlotte has "more of a true urban core than any city in the Southeast" is interesting, and frankly a bit shocking to me. Obviously it is just one man's opinion, but it is great to see that we are coming along so strong that this can even be said of us. It wasn't that long that we had a main street and a sea of parking lots behind it. There is still too many voids for my liking, but I think we really are continuing to build in a very dense pattern, with the lots being slowly but surely removed as the market can bear.

In the past it seemed like a huge shame that the speculation and subsequent operation of the land as parking lots had driven up the prices and left them barren for a long time. But now that developers like Novare are able to add density enough to afford the land, we might have hit the point where those lots fall like dominoes. We'll see.

I had personally thought we were done with announcements downtown, beyond what we can squeeze from the public sector. This Novare announcement has me thinking we are in store for even more.

Novare's projects aren't that cheap. They really upped their prices over those first announced in the press. I'm thinking things start at like $285 a square foot. Courtside started at $220 per square foot. One lucky person I know got in at $200 per square foot. Sounds shocking, I know, but this was when it was the only high rise and taking a real flier to buy into it.

Just thinking we shouldn't be giving them too much credit...I guess it is better than the $600 per square foot of some of the Vue.

[nyxmike]

How many people think Novare's project in Southpark could be another TWELVE (especially is the Hyatt is converting to condos)???

[atlrvr]

Not me, but I'm basing that solely on the fact that they have 3 high-rises under construction in Buckhead and none of them has a Twelve.

I don't think they view SP as an "edgy" enough market for the Twelve concept to work, but we'll see.

[UptownGrrl]

I guess no one was excited to read about a possible new condo tower in a 20s-era building just next to The Square. It is hard to upstage the Hall of Fame . I 'm glad to have yet another group of new residents (if it happens) to downtown, and this time a productive reuse for an 80 year old building.

Looks like an interesting project. I guess I never really noticed how this is a separate structure from Interstate Tower. Yes, very bad, I know.

I'm taking a poll-- What's the most unoriginal name possible for this project? The Square? Lofts on the Square? SquareView? Curious if it would follow the trend of semi-lame obvious names.

[cinco]

Looks like an interesting project. I guess I never really noticed how this is a separate structure from Interstate Tower. Yes, very bad, I know.

I'm taking a poll-- What's the most unoriginal name possible for this project? The Square? Lofts on the Square? SquareView? Curious if it would follow the trend of semi-lame obvious names.

squareside... oh wait, this isn't furman's project.

[ElricSeven]

Looks like an interesting project. I guess I never really noticed how this is a separate structure from Interstate Tower. Yes, very bad, I know.

I'm taking a poll-- What's the most unoriginal name possible for this project? The Square? Lofts on the Square? SquareView? Curious if it would follow the trend of semi-lame obvious names.

Something that combines Charlotte's textile industry with the proximity to the Square.

Hmm, textiles are used for furniture and clothing. Article of clothing? Maybe...

SquarePants

[graydog]

How many people think Novare's project in Southpark could be another TWELVE (especially is the Hyatt is converting to condos)???

Having stayed at TWELVE at Atlantic Station and visiting the shops there, I'd bet on it. First, Atlantic Station is a bigger version of Phillips Place. TWELVE itself is next door to a grocery store. Second, TWELVE is more style than edge and SP is about style. Lastly, TWELVE is targeting their hotel suites to business people and the business stay market in SP seems plentiful and growing.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

Having stayed at TWELVE at Atlantic Station and visiting the shops there, I'd bet on it. First, Atlantic Station is a bigger version of Phillips Place. TWELVE itself is next door to a grocery store. Second, TWELVE is more style than edge and SP is about style. Lastly, TWELVE is targeting their hotel suites to business people and the business stay market in SP seems plentiful and growing.

Especially with only a few SP hotels: Courtyard, The Park, Doubletree (we really can't count Hyatt). A twelve client probably wouldn't want to stay in any of these. Maybe the Park, but the clientel don't line up very well.

[dubone]

There was also a great rumor about one of my favorite old buildings in Charlotte. Apparently, 112 South Tryon is being considered for condos. While I hope office to condo conversions don't happen too much more, it is great for funding renovations of old buildings that are no longer viable for offices. http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte...6/tidbits1.html

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte.../20/story2.html

With 112 S Tryon and 129 W Trade being considered for conversion to condos, it will be interesting to see if there is more investor interest in new office construction. I'm glad that there is an option for old buildings that are becoming less relevant to the office market than simply tearing them down.