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downtowninvestor

By downtowninvestor
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spenser1058 Gigalopolis

spenser1058

Posted
Posted (edited)

Also, we have an urban downtown full-service grocery store.  Most cities of our size would kill for that.

 

Greenville has a downtown Publix also - but you are correct, and it verifies my point. It seems the City of Greenville worked in conjunction with the developer on The One building to include retail (such as the new Brooks Brothers and also Anthropologie). I assume they did something not unlike what Buddy did to encourage Publix and the Plaza Cinema Cafe. Both opened roughly FIVE YEARS AGO. And then crickets. To JFW's point, yes, Orlando has many competing shopping venues. So does Greenville - BB and Anthropologie could have gone to the mall. Given our particular situation, I am not expecting Neiman's to plop down on Orange Avenue anytime soon. However, the city isn't even bothering to look for more retail downtown. Buddy's own statements since Publix and Cobb opened are all about "entertainment venues" and not a peep about retail. Let me be the first to say, entertainment venues are fine - DPAC rocks and, though I'll never attend, I have no problem with the soccer stadium.

 

But we also need retail for those of us who live here. My point in bringing up Greenville is simply that there are more than a few who believe there's some intrinsic reason why we can't get retail downtown. Greenville shows it does not require a huge college or even a huge population to get retail (I suspect based on the numbers I've seen that more people live and work in downtown Orlando than in downtown Greenville.) What is missing since 2008 is WILL. And it's not like only downtown gets subsidies for these projects - Millenia got money from the city and county; Colonial Plaza got over $1 milllion dollars to tear down the mall and what is our latest wonderful addition to CP? The fabulous Bealls Outlet!

 

Bottom line: we can do better than we're doing. People keep saying we have to wait for more people downtown. More people live downtown today than in the history of the city. People say we don't have the right "mix": as any advertiser can tell you, the young college and post-college age folks filling up most of downtown's high-rises are EXACTLY the target audience required.

 

Instead, we keep putting in bars and restaurants, most of which fail within 6 months of opening. Meanwhile, a hardware store? A 24-hour drug store? Based on Publix' numbers, there's room. It's time - no more excuses are acceptable.

 

http://www.onegreenville.com/

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Jernigan
Jernigan

Lots of permitting this month including applying for the 1st floor interior demo.  

spenser1058
spenser1058

I've long thought the Creative Village was more PR to get the new arena built than anything else when no one wanted to hand a penny to Rich DeVos. Grand urban projects of that sort rarely amount to an

Jernigan
Jernigan

Yes - employees that park in that lot have been advised that the lot will be gone in the coming weeks 

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spenser1058 Gigalopolis

spenser1058

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'd bet we will see more brand name clothing retail in places like Health Village, Creative Village and/or Uptown before we see it in areas like Downtown Orange Ave or Church St.

 A good point and I can live with Uptown - anywhere that's walkable for those downtown without a car or at least a relatively short Lymmo jaunt.

 

Speaking of Creative Village and developer Craig Ustler - if he's really serious about downtown (and I do believe him to be), he has a perfect opportunity to walk the walk at Thornton Park Central. When it first opened, he said he could have signed up chain retail but they were going for a "local vibe." Well, as we now know (from many of the local retailers who have pleaded for some chain stores to attract shoppers to the area), in 21st century America most shopping is done at a well-known chain. 

 

With HUE and Urban ReThink both closed, there's space to attract popular retail. Once people think of downtown as a place to shop, then will be the time to encourage the interesting owner-occupied stores that give us personality. As it stands now, they never get enough traffic to stay in business.

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prahaboheme City

prahaboheme

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In order to create a thriving pedestrian retail district, a few things need to be in place.  None of which exist in downtown Orlando.

 

Despite popular belief, residential density is not one of them.  If this were true, downtown Orlando would already have one whereas Park Avenue in Winter Park, King Street in Charleston, and Pacific Ave in Santa Cruz would be littered with little more than empty store fronts and a dream.

 

The answer is:  Orlando city government needs to step up here, and big time.  Orlando needs a strategic planning process that will outline how and where retail business will grow.  Right now, any potential retailer that even entertains the idea of creating a footprint in downtown Orlando will be hard pressed because identifying an appropriate location is not possible.  Strategic corridors for retail establishment must be identified (by the city, not the retailers) and marketed to the private sector.

 

My personal opinion on this is that Magnolia Ave between Church Street and Livingston should be a focus here.  This is a terribly underutilized downtown street that already has all the urban elements in place.  

 

Virginia Ave between Orange and Mills should also have a strategic plan.  Despite city government's best effort to do absolutely NOTHING with this street, it seems to rise above.  Why not help Virginia along by implementing a strategic plan to bring in boutique retail and restaurants?  Virginia should already be Orlando's Park Avenue.

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jack Burg

jack

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All good points. But I don't have high hopes City Hall can develop a framework you all are asking for. I know one issue for retail is available space. A lot is not large enough and configured oddly.

 

In spite of all that, Magnolia to me is the clear area where there could be a good retail hub. But the existing buildings need work. The library and Heritage Park creates dead zones. The office building on Church (that the Church owns) is another dead zone. In spite of all that, there are some tremendous possibilities.  

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sunshine City

sunshine

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I agreed about

 

Greenville has a downtown Publix also - but you are correct, and it verifies my point. It seems the City of Greenville worked in conjunction with the developer on The One building to include retail (such as the new Brooks Brothers and also Anthropologie). I assume they did something not unlike what Buddy did to encourage Publix and the Plaza Cinema Cafe. Both opened roughly FIVE YEARS AGO. And then crickets. To JFW's point, yes, Orlando has many competing shopping venues. So does Greenville - BB and Anthropologie could have gone to the mall. Given our particular situation, I am not expecting Neiman's to plop down on Orange Avenue anytime soon. However, the city isn't even bothering to look for more retail downtown. Buddy's own statements since Publix and Cobb opened are all about "entertainment venues" and not a peep about retail. Let me be the first to say, entertainment venues are fine - DPAC rocks and, though I'll never attend, I have no problem with the soccer stadium.

 

But we also need retail for those of us who live here. My point in bringing up Greenville is simply that there are more than a few who believe there's some intrinsic reason why we can't get retail downtown. Greenville shows it does not require a huge college or even a huge population to get retail (I suspect based on the numbers I've seen that more people live and work in downtown Orlando than in downtown Greenville.) What is missing since 2008 is WILL. And it's not like only downtown gets subsidies for these projects - Millenia got money from the city and county; Colonial Plaza got over $1 milllion dollars to tear down the mall and what is our latest wonderful addition to CP? The fabulous Bealls Outlet!

 

Bottom line: we can do better than we're doing. People keep saying we have to wait for more people downtown. More people live downtown today than in the history of the city. People say we don't have the right "mix": as any advertiser can tell you, the young college and post-college age folks filling up most of downtown's high-rises are EXACTLY the target audience required.

 

Instead, we keep putting in bars and restaurants, most of which fail within 6 months of opening. Meanwhile, a hardware store? A 24-hour drug store? Based on Publix' numbers, there's room. It's time - no more excuses are acceptable.

 

http://www.onegreenville.com/

I think the city does have a framework on where they want the retails activity, they just doesnt have anyone to implement it. DDP has people with "wait and see" attitude and doesnt have retails experiences.

 

I agree that developer needs to find tenants before they build out the retails space. Most of the retails space we have are too small.

 

We dont have to look so far at greenville...just look at St Petersburg or Winter Park...they have better downtown retails than us.

 

I think a good retail hub should be all along Eola Drive (i think that is the name of the street). from Panera bread all the way down to south street. U have the lake eola crowd and the views for nice restaurants....a newberry street (boston) south...or oceon drive north....Church street from Amway to Citrus bowl can be our lincoln road with street car...

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Urbanista407 Crossroads

Urbanista407

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I cannot agree more with the above post that some sort of strategic planning needs to be in place for retail development.  On that note, does anyone know whatever happened to Orlando 2.0?  "This groups goal was to transform from an after-scene for partiers, parking tickets and panhandlers into a place for shopping, dining, higher education and entertainment."  They were announced in the Orlando Sentinel back in January and nothing else has come about this group that I know of.

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jack Burg

jack

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I think someone on this board needs to take a little initiative to get what they want. Especially since there seems to be general disappointment with City Hall. Come up with a plan, get support, then go to City Hall. Who knows, it may work. Or maybe enlist property owners and brokers. 

 

Look to other areas that are successful and figure out why they were and what lessons can be learned here. 

Edited by jack
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John Hargrove Hamlet

John Hargrove

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This is great news for CSS and may bode well for the future of the Exchange and Church Street in general.  Perhaps CSS could evolve into a small tech and start-up cluster.  These are exactly the types of people who utilize mass transit and embrace the urban lifestyle. 

 

While I was still involved in a start-up, we were shopping the exchange as a possible location. Their goal is exactly what you describe: they want to take the open nature of the space and create a tech community within. When we were looking, we were looking at the top floor as a possible option.

 

I was also recently contacted by a Time Warner rep who I was working with at the time and was told TW is bringing fiber into the building, which should help a lot. I suspect this has something to do with PlanSource. 

Edited by castorvx
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mrh3 Hamlet

mrh3

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I'm also curious about where the entrepreneur's are? A city can only do so much to stir investment, but at a certain point you need individuals willing to take the risk to open in these locations without expecting national retailers to do all the heavy lifting. In my experience, the national firms being more risk averse are more likely to arrive after there is a demonstrated retail market nurtured by local businesses. Some of the basic things I know we've discussed prior include a hardware store, office supply store, dry cleaners, wine and liquor stores, home goods, etc... That's low hanging fruit that should easily be solved. The way that the city could help would be to guarantee leases for the businesses or find some other way to incentivize a landlord to accept a lease.

Edited by mrh3
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