Charlotte Arts Master Plan

[monsoon]

The city council overrode the Mayor's veto on the Arts Funding package and will be headed to the Legislature to push for the new tax to specifically support the arts. It will be interesting to see how it ends up.

[Florida]

As a mayor it must stink to be overridden by the rest of your council... says alot for his/her ability to lead.

[ElricSeven]

As a mayor it must stink to be overridden by the rest of your council... says alot for his/her ability to lead.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I think they mayor sort of knew and wanted to be overriden. He was making a political gesture to the need for funding police protection Uptown given recent concerns about the same. Smart political move, although it maybe casts a pall over the legislature votes.

[MZT]

Actually, I think they mayor sort of knew and wanted to be overriden.  He was making a political gesture to the need for funding police protection Uptown given recent concerns about the same.  Smart political move, although it maybe casts a pall over the legislature votes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think there's even a possibility the ASC realized there was no chance of getting everything. They may not have been willing to face their supporters and prioritize spending. Easier to ask for all of it and blame lack of progress on the council.

[Miesian Corners]

The issue here, though, is not free expression but subsidization of a particular type of expression.  There has to be a dividing line somewhere, that's where I call it.  I just think that promoting the public good should end before it reaches the arts.  There is just too much choice and tast involved for my comfort.

Is this horse dead yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where do you draw the line? Architecture is a type of art. It is subjective. Should public buildings become concrete block structures with a couple of windows, or do we hire archtects to give us something interesting and beautiful? Imagine Washington, DC without its masterpieces. No National Gallery of Art (the buildings or their contents), no great iron-domed Capitol, no memorials, not even the mall or the radiating avenues of L'enfant (urban design is also an art).

Why can we not embrace anything that might cause us to actually think for a change? Why do we cave to our Puritanical prudish past for what is our time and our children's future? God-forbid we see something that might cause us to challenge our way of thinking, force us to see beyond ourselves, and face up to our inherent fear of something the least bit different.

[monsoon]

....

Why can we not embrace anything that might cause us to actually think for a change?  Why do we cave to our Puritanical prudish past for what is our time and our children's future?  God-forbid we see something that might cause us to challenge our way of thinking, force us to see beyond ourselves, and face up to our inherent fear of something the least bit different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This isn't a question of enjoying art or appreciating it. It is a question of creating a special and unique tax and turning it over to an organization that has demonstrated time and time again that it does not have the public's support nor can be trusted with the money it is given.

[Miesian Corners]

This isn't a question of enjoying art or appreciating it.  It is a question of creating a special and unique tax and turning it over  to an organization that has demonstrated time and time again that it does not have the public's support nor can be trusted with the money it is given.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The same can be said of anything our government does. I pay a "special tax" on gasoline, but living here I rarely see the the benefits. Integration of public schools didn't have public support when the Feds imposed it. I doubt any of us would say that was a bad decision, now would we?

When has ASC done something that should call into question their trustworthiness? The production of Angels in America and the Joe Chambers fiasco (making us the laughing stock of the nation)?

[monsoon]

The same can be said of anything our government does.  I pay a "special tax" on gasoline, but living here I rarely see the the benefits.  Integration of public schools didn't have public support when the Feds imposed it.  I doubt any of us would say that was a bad decision, now would we?   

When has ASC done something that should call into question their trustworthiness?  The production of  and the Joe Chambers fiasco (making us the laughing stock of the nation)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Every road you travel on in NC is a benefit from the gas tax. You have to benefit from it everyday. Even if you don't drive, there would be no groceries, police services, rescue services, no economy, etc if there were not highways in NC.

Integration of public schools was not a bad idea. Forced busing to accomplish it, which is what the courts actually legislated, was a bad idea and led to the suburbanization of much of america. Maybe you forgot that decision was recently eliminated by the US Supreme Ct. when it ruled against our very own CMS on the matter.

Just like the failure of forced busing, (which has nothing to do with integration) the devil is in the details with arts funding in the county. If the arts are deserving of funding, let them get in line with every other group in CLT seeking public money and justify their needs. They have not done this according to CLT's own mayor.

In regards to trusting them with money, please read what was posted above.

[Miesian Corners]

They've been in line.  NASCAR HOF didn't even get in the que?

How else would you have accomplished integration of public schools in the South?  And America was already on its way to suburbanization before that happened (see Levittown, NY and the San Fernando Valley, Ca).

If your money issue is going to be based soley on the Mya Lin "shrubs" at the old Coliseum, that's beating a dead horse.  I blame that on two redneck idiots who call WRFX home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dubone]

...The African American cultural center can be included in whatever Furman is cooking up in 1st Ward, as a TIF deal, but it would make sense that this would become a wing of the Mint.  It would seem like it is the lowest priority for a few reasons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmmm... good idea atlrvr.... (although mr. lochman doesn't agree...)

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/new...cs/12480242.htm

[atlrvr]

Consider me a visionary. I'm really glad this will be a strucutred parking facility because it lends some credibility to the rumor that this could be a 5-6 story project (of the site of the Park/strip center). I would assume townhomes will go across 7th.

Lochman may agree with me that this could be a wing of the Mint. Also, the Afro-American theatre/libary could conceivably included in the new theatre on S. Tryon....similar to the Booth Playhouse at the Blumenthal.

[dubone]

Consider me a visionary.

[atlrvr]

I believe that Myers will and Alexander won't....but I don't believe that Myers will connect over to 8th.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/12587142.htm

apparently, wachovia is working out a deal where they would be entirely responsible for construction of the arts campus, which protects the city from cost overruns, and cuts out some redtape that is involved with public projects.

If everything goes well, Wachovia could break ground in January or February 2006.

[A2]

^the city and the state better get in gear. I think this is brilliant. WB is going to be FULLY responsible for ANY cost overruns. I think that they need to be aggressively pursuing this.

It does two things. First, It assists the largest employer in the Region to move forward with building thier tower, and secondly it gives the community a welll deserved Arts Package that has been severely lacking. I will be shocked and appauled if this thing is not hammered out before the end of the year.

The arts package has already been approved. I hope we do not prolong the start construction of a wonderful complex, because one or two people can't figure out some small details.

I think this will be an awesome project. $400,000,000+ of toweres retail, and ARTS ! You have to love it.

A2

[monsoon]

Well actually I noticed in that Observer article, all the way at the end buried down in the paper, that there isn't enough money for this project unless the State Legislature votes to increase the rental tax. And they say the earliest they could do this would be in May, if at all because there are several local members in the legislature that are against the plan.

[A2]

Well actually I noticed in that Observer article, all the way at the end buried down in the paper, that there isn't enough money for this project unless the State Legislature votes to increase the rental tax. And they say the earliest they could do this would be in May, if at all because there are several local members in the legislature that are against the plan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My only response to local and state leaders is don't bite the hand that feeds you.

I know that Wachovia is one of the largest tax payers in NC and pays a ton in taxes. You piss them off and they might just decide to move to Lancaser like HSBC did. B)

I think that the small minded gov't running NC needs to wake up and smell the coffee. Just my two cents.

I know many here are against corporate welfare. But in the tight competition between cities vying for corporate HQ's and tax money from corporate giants, one needs to make sure that they assist (to some degree) a finanical incintive to attract and recruit them, or in the case of existing corporations, retain them.

A2

[monsoon]

It would be interesting to see a 80 story tower constructed on main street in Lancaster. Employees could listen to the Red Rose Jamboree on their AM radio every day at lunch.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/ent...ts/12933489.htm

the banks and duke now plan to contribute $35m instead of $18m for operation endowments for the arts.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/12948078.htm

The museums are looking at selling naming rights. I hope the names aren't tacky... but this will be a good way of raising money in a practical way.

Now we just need to figure out how the city and county will fund their share ~150m (whether the state will give them the rights to tax rental cars or some other source).

[A2]

AACC is moving to the Wachovia 1st St project, according the Observer this morning. Guess that means the city will pursue selling to Furman.

I saw this on the news last night. The AACC will be looking to move to the corner of Stonewall and Tryon directly across from the WB project on Tryon.

To me this is really exciting news. This "gateway" of sorts into Uptown from the South will be finally "filling in".

It will be two massive parking lots finally erased from within the loop. Better yet it completes that segment of Uptown. There will only be a few parcels left between the NEW projects and 277. If I am not mistaken even the lots that are currently undeveloped will be developed in the near future. I know that there was a proposal on the table for the Refelctions tower. I know it is just a proposal, but now with so much happening on S Tryon that proposal might soon become a reality.

A2

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/13067500.htm

It is incredible that the land area that will be part of the Wachovia arts complex keeps expanding.

I am so confused on the specific parcel being described at Stonewall and Tryon. On Polaris, that land south of St. Peters seems to be owned by a few different owners, but mostly "INC Consolidated Realty". Is that Wachovia, or did they purchase it recently.

If the AACC takes up the entire lot south of St. Peters, I will be a little disappointed. Civic and cultural space is nice and all, but that is a really good lot for an eventual tower.

http://virtualearth.msn.com/default.aspx?c...le=h&lvl=19&v=1

However, the wording "It would sit on a strip of Wachovia-owned land on Stonewall Street, between the Charlotte Convention Center and a new Mint Museum" could be saying that the Mint is also going on that block, and the AACC would go on the College Street side of the lot. Am I missing something?

[atlrvr]

I thought the wording was kind of weird, and reporters are notorious for not having an accurate idea of where a project is really going....they reguarly describe them at the wrong quadrants.

Anyway, the block between the Catholic Church and Stonewall that is listed as INC Consolidated Realty, I believe is a psuedo-corp. that is owned by Eastern Federal. Though their theatres have been bought by Regal, they have retained their real estate holdings.

[dubone]

So, unless Wachovia has bought the land from INC Consolidated, we can assume that the AACC will simply be woven into the original site's plan.

Although it would have been nice to erase another surface lot, I definitely prefer that site remain for a future scraper.

[A2]

From what I understand, Wachovia is putting a tunnel between the two projects and that the AACC would be built on top of the Underground deck and tunnel.

The AACC would be a much larger project than what it is today. Initial speculation puts it at 5 stories according to what I have heard. I would also assume that even if they move forward with the AACC project accross the street that there would still be room left on the site for a "future tower".

I do see both parking lots being developed, instead of just one for what its worth.

A2