Elizabeth Projects (7th St, Elizabeth Ave, etc)

[dubone]

I'm surprised to learn that Conformity is only controlling the Roy' Flowers lot but not the lot with the Visart. This is actually a great relief, as I think smaller parcels allow for development more to the liking of the UPiners.

I don't have any opinions on the website, but I have love love loved the Rutler since I saw it last year. I always believed that that 5 points area with Central, Louise, and 10th would be great for Urban redevelopment.

I'd say Conformity's development model is considered very positive by most people on here. Most people here like the very innovative, modern architecture, and the actual buildings that have older architecture. That is, if it is new, make it look new, but save the old as much as possible.

To me, there isn't much to save in the buildings on that strip mall, except for the businesses.

Do you know if there is an effect to house the businesses somewhere else in the neighborhood, or in the redevelopment? Or are the shop owners using this as a means to retire?

[Charlotte_native]

Thanks for chiming in, Conformity! It is nice to see someone take interest in what the buyers, residents, and everyday folks in various neighborhoods want. I think you will find a wealth of ideas, both good and bad, on here. I use a lot of it for work in a roundabout way and it has been a great place for someone like me who also simply has an interest in Charlotte and what is going on.

I understand your need for holding back at times, I have to as well, but if I may, a couple questions (understanding you might not answer all of them!):

What is going on with the Hawthorne site that has been cleared?

What are your general plans for the 7th Street site?

Thanks again -- you can't imagine how many folks will be happy to see what you have to say rather than imagining and speculating on what is in the works!

[dubone]

... and if you answer the question about the Hawthorne site, be sure to put it in this thread, where we've discussed that project in the past:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10211

[Charlotte_native]

I just don't get it. Why are they so married to their original building?

Perhaps after so many years of doing the same thing every day they are ready to close. They may have gotten a hefty payout as well -- does anyone know?

[49er]

it would be tough, having to suspend business and employees for over a year. plus the equipment in the kitchen is probably old enough that much of it might not pass inspection in a new restaurant.

it would be neat for them to preserve some of the signage and open elsewhere

[dubone]

Maybe the rules on restaurants reopening in new locations are the culprits. Requiring restaurants to buy brand new equipment when moving is a major reason, I am assuming, that these old restaurants can't afford to reopen!

Mery Newsom should investigate that! Coffee Cup and Athens should get exceptions so they can reopen without much cost.

[uptownliving]

Perhaps after so many years of doing the same thing every day they are ready to close. They may have gotten a hefty payout as well -- does anyone know?

CPCC paid them about $869K for the property back in 2002.

[Charlotte_native]

CPCC paid them about $869K for the property back in 2002.

Considering they likely owned NOTHING that is a nice amount of cash to run away with!

[voyager12]

It is helpful to get a slightly clearer picture of what may happen. I think praise is a bit premature until we see what really ends up being submitted for approval. Does Conformity mean to say that The Stone and Jack's are not under contract or are they going to be left as is?

[Conformity]

Conformity is operating on the other side of the street. Boulevard is active on the side you are referring to.l

[Conformity]

It will be excellent and worthy of praise or we won't do it. Feel free to hold me to that.

... and if you answer the question about the Hawthorne site, be sure to put it in this thread, where we've discussed that project in the past:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=10211

I take this to mean that I should reply here and in the other thread. Is there a way to do that in one step or do I have to post to each individually?

[cinco]

It will be excellent and worthy of praise or we won't do it. Feel free to hold me to that.

I take this to mean that I should reply here and in the other thread. Is there a way to do that in one step or do I have to post to each individually?

thanks for joining in the conversations....

you will need to do seperate posts that pertain to there specific threads. i am somewhat reassured by the simple fact a developer is reading through UP. i think you will find people here to be very informed and knowledgable about many topics.... and genuinely curious about others.

[voyager12]

Conformity is operating on the other side of the street. Boulevard is active on the side you are referring to.l

Oh, in that case I better start frequenting Stone and Jack's before they go the way of Athens, Coffee Cup etc etc etc

Edited October 2, 2006 by voyager12

[monsoon]

Someone responsible for Athens this weekend said they were closing simply because CPCC would not renew their lease for the place. I take it to mean that CPCC's parking deck and the plans for a future restaurant are incompatible with each other. It could also mean the owners don't want to pay the money it would take to build a new restaurant on the property since presumably CPCC is going to require that to happen. My guess is that most of the stuff in Athens is pretty much falling apart and would not pass a building code inspection for new construction.

I too think it stinks to bulldoze down yet another historic place (ok historic to a lot of people) in order to better accomidate the automobile.

[crispin]

It will be excellent and worthy of praise or we won't do it. Feel free to hold me to that.

Well, I'm pleased you're here and I'm pleased you own that parcel. The lot is an eyesore; the sidewalk in front is nearly impassable and dark at night. The whole thing is a blight on a lovely neighborhood, and I'm excited to see what you plan to do with the space.

I also love your interest in approximating incremental development. Are there projects you've done -- or admire -- where that has been attempted?

To me, the charm of Seventh is the fact that a commercial district grew up, at least partly, inside the buildings of a residential neighborhood. It has that rare-for-Charlotte feeling of a place in its second generation of use. I'd love to see some gesture to that character.

[revitalize]

yeah, a definite "feeling of place" is what i get when i go to this area now. its hard to define, therefore hard to replicate with new development.

I imagine, with economics factored in) the temptation these days would be to try to make a new commercial development be a city-wide "attraction," almost trying to one-up other commercial developments. In the end, i think it is important that whatever re-development of a small neighborhood services center like this really provides just that: neighborhood services. not city-wide services. am i making any sense????????????

[graydog]

I have to say I agree with revitalize and crispin. The neighborhood services in that area are a large part of the residents' quality of life. You can get most of what you need almost anytime within a short walk. Maybe 1 semi-citywide store would be good if it was a traffic driver like Paper Skyscraper is.

[Conformity]

thanks for joining in the conversations....

you will need to do seperate posts that pertain to there specific threads. i am somewhat reassured by the simple fact a developer is reading through UP. i think you will find people here to be very informed and knowledgable about many topics.... and genuinely curious about others.

I have found folks here to be remarkably well versed....makes me wonder who might be behind the curtain. ....you know....what are the day jobs? I am reassured by the fact that so many people find these types of issues to be of interest that a content rich web forum can be created to support them.

[A2]

Someone responsible for Athens this weekend said they were closing simply because CPCC would not renew their lease for the place. I take it to mean that CPCC's parking deck and the plans for a future restaurant are incompatible with each other. It could also mean the owners don't want to pay the money it would take to build a new restaurant on the property since presumably CPCC is going to require that to happen. My guess is that most of the stuff in Athens is pretty much falling apart and would not pass a building code inspection for new construction.

I too think it stinks to bulldoze down yet another historic place (ok historic to a lot of people) in order to better accomidate the automobile.

How big is this deck going to be? I was thinking that they were getting a ton of new space in the one being built just across the street. Is this really going to mean we have multiple parking lots in one general area?

A2

Edited October 3, 2006 by A2

[Conformity]

Oh, in that case I better start frequenting Stone and Jack's before they go the way of Athens, Coffee Cup etc etc etc

I have contacted the folks at Beazer and offered to solve their PR nightmare although I don't really expect to hear from them. I also let the folks at Historic Charlotte, Inc. know that we were up to the challenge. It is simply amazing to me that Beazer can't see the opportunity in doing the right thing. We are not asking for anyone to give us anything. We would pay for the site. We have the skills to integrate a Coffee Cup solution into Beazer's overall master plan. All they need do is release 3/4 of an acre at a market price and we will take care of the rest.

Know someone at Beazer? Know our work and believe in it? Believe in the Coffee Cup? Please knock out a few emails or calls.

[Conformity]

Oh, in that case I better start frequenting Stone and Jack's before they go the way of Athens, Coffee Cup etc etc etc

Had the honey turkey wrap today with granny smith apples and some chippers. I missed the Bayou Kitchen and the chicken fried chicken desperately for some time and frankly shunned Philosopher's Stone. I am over that and its a good thing.

[Conformity]

Well, I'm pleased you're here and I'm pleased you own that parcel. The lot is an eyesore; the sidewalk in front is nearly impassable and dark at night. The whole thing is a blight on a lovely neighborhood, and I'm excited to see what you plan to do with the space.

I also love your interest in approximating incremental development. Are there projects you've done -- or admire -- where that has been attempted?

To me, the charm of Seventh is the fact that a commercial district grew up, at least partly, inside the buildings of a residential neighborhood. It has that rare-for-Charlotte feeling of a place in its second generation of use. I'd love to see some gesture to that character.

Okay. I am guessing there is some protocol thing here I am screwing up by responding to posts individually. I suppose I should respond more generally in the string? I don't know. I'm sure you will kindly bust me where required.

For clarity....I do not own that parcel. I control it.

As to incremental development, Elizabeth Village at Hawthorne and Independence is a combination of 5 different new buildings, 2 historic quadraplexes and a 1928 single family house. 41 units on 1.4 acres between 110K and 280K (3 years ago). It avoids 90 and 180 degree organizations of buildings and spaces (layering and deflection ala Europe). That feaure combined with the historic fabric grounds the development in things that are real to all of us....the historic centers us and well designed spaces engage us and make us acutely aware of all that we are capable of as humans. Sound weighty....walk a crappy development and then walk a great one....if you're talking about development in a web forum, you are someone who will feel these things.....feel the difference.

There are other examples, but truth be told........time is a very difficult thing to replicate (incremental development). The incremental development of great urban centers of the industrial revolution and earlier is very difficult to achieve today for a variety of reasons. That however is not reason not to strive.

[dubone]

I'm surprised that this will also be a parking deck (has anyone really confirmed this?). It has always been my understanding that the CPCC master plan called for a building on that site that is a twin to the IT building that was constructed next door at Elizabeth and Indy.

It is possible that is going to be an extension of the large parking deck next door as part of this project:

http://inside.cpcc.edu/facilitiesservices/..._updates/10.htm

But I somewhat doubt it will be an extension of the deck. With such a large deck going across the street, I don't think a small lot would be worth the money over just adding a floor onto the large floorplate deck.

I still believe that this is planned for a classroom building, as shown in their master plan, which I've attached. They have stuck pretty close to their master plan so far, so I have no reason to believe they throw away those plans for an odd extension to a parking deck.

[uptownliving]

dubone, I havn't seen anywhere that Athens will be replaced by a parking deck. In fact just like you, everything I have seen from CPCC is that Athens will be replaced with an academic building.

CPCC did offer the ground floor retail space in the new building to Athens, however they refused.

[Conformity]

yeah, a definite "feeling of place" is what i get when i go to this area now. its hard to define, therefore hard to replicate with new development.

I imagine, with economics factored in) the temptation these days would be to try to make a new commercial development be a city-wide "attraction," almost trying to one-up other commercial developments. In the end, i think it is important that whatever re-development of a small neighborhood services center like this really provides just that: neighborhood services. not city-wide services. am i making any sense????????????

"place" is tricky. But, as I suspect you know, it is certainly real. We will soon start on a Thomas Avenue district project that will not threaten any of the outstanding fabric already on the ground. I can go into this more in November. Charlotte lacks for "places" and as such people are crying out for "Thomas Streets". We are fortunate to work there.