Westin on Lower Broad

[Hankster]

Months is about all I can say. Metro Council could be holding the cards.

Thanks for your assessment. I'll be very patient about this one, and I suspect the developers will take this thing all the way until it is either approved or defeated.

[NewTowner]

Indeed, the city has been wanting a better design but it has been dictating the parameters, for example, requiring that the different zones of the building be set apart more. The architects are designing within a box the city has created.

The rather abstract criteria imposed by the city could, I confess, be a little more proscriptive and specific, but that almost makes the architect's failure to "make the most of it" even more stupid, given the wild and ridiculous amount of options that have been left available to his/her incompetence. I just get the feeling that the bugger is lazy, and contemptuous of Nashville's desire to keep some sort of traditional aesthetic alive on Lower Broadway.

Metro, on their part, should quit applying what has amounted to the Socratic method of gentle design prodding and articulate exactly what sort of building they would rather have. Even if they don't know it, what they want is traditional design--and they sure haven't made that clear to anyone but those who already know it, and, perhaps more importantly, are willing to admit it.

In other words, perhaps Bernhardt should have brought a slideshow to the meeting of beautiful, human-scaled, well-detailed hotels around the world and said "This, This!!" But of course, I wasn't there. Maybe he did.

Regardless, a monkey in a cage is still a monkey. The design has improved, substantially, but the 2nd Avenue fa

[LA_TN]

The developers actually testified the tile material they are proposing hasn't been used on any property in DT Nashville. That's part of the reason the committee asked for further review of the materials they are using.

Thanks, very interesting to hear this. I just somehow see (a modern) L&C bldg when I look at the renderings based on the style and colors. I, too, have been curious about the materials and some more details of the 2nd Ave facade

As for looking like a hospital:

1) then it should blend in well here

2) could be worse, soon they'll be drilling for oil in DT Louisville on their new platform, er, museum

[Lexy]

As for looking like a hospital:

1) then it should blend in well here

2) could be worse, soon they'll be drilling for oil in DT Louisville on their new platform, er, museum

Nice! LOL!!!

[pturbo]

I'm glad the project is going forward, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Imagine every time you leave your place you are in the 2nd Ave mess/level of activity. Everytime you come home you face the same thing. I've done some urban living on busy streets, but this would be over the top for me. Maybe I'mjust getting old, but anyone with the money to buy one of these condos will have a few years on them(minus any trust fund 20 somethings).

[smeagolsfree]

I hope the all the new condos DT have good sound proofing. As I drive on the weekends DT at 4 and 5 in the morning, I am blown away by the number of people on the streets and the number of times I hear police, fire, and ambulance sirens. Thats not to mention all the loud stereos that are booming. Most of the problem are the late night clubs. I really hope they close down the after hours clubs DT as public nuicences. There is no place for them in a residential mix.

[memphian]

I disagree. There is room for everyone downtown. You cannot cherry-pick demographics. Maybe an extended police force is what is really needed.

[Kheldane]

I really hope they close down the after hours clubs DT as public nuicences. There is no place for them in a residential mix.

What a suggestion! What would you say to the business owners in that part of town who bought or leased space so they could operate after hours clubs? "Sorry, but you're business doesn't jive with the new residential mix"?

Honestly, I find it highly disturbing how flipantly people say things like "The should shut this business down, they should shut that business down". How about they shut your business down first, then we'll go check on the others? That sounds better to me.

[jcoop]

I hope the all the new condos DT have good sound proofing. As I drive on the weekends DT at 4 and 5 in the morning, I am blown away by the number of people on the streets and the number of times I hear police, fire, and ambulance sirens. Thats not to mention all the loud stereos that are booming. Most of the problem are the late night clubs. I really hope they close down the after hours clubs DT as public nuicences. There is no place for them in a residential mix.

I really disagree too...a vibrant downtown will allow people to live, work and play downtown. Eliminating clubs is not what needs to be done, they just need to be contained to certain parts of downtown. And noise can be dealt with. Whenever I stay in a hotel in New York, I always think I'll be up all night listening to the noise outside, and it usually doesn't bother me at all once I'm going to sleep.

[jdavidf]

I hope the all the new condos DT have good sound proofing. As I drive on the weekends DT at 4 and 5 in the morning, I am blown away by the number of people on the streets and the number of times I hear police, fire, and ambulance sirens.

It's funny - when we first moved downtown, we thought we'd never get used to the noise (something we didn't think about with the euphoria of moving there!)... didn't take but a day or two, though. Now, when we go visit family in their small, very quiet towns, we can't sleep because it's so QUIET! In fact, if we go outside to talk, we find ourselves whispering to each other!

I doubt the noise will be a problem compared the positives of living downtown...

David

[barakat]

Sorry, I disagree too. It is the mix of entertainment -- honky tonks, nightclubs, bars, restaurants, and afterhours, that attract downtown residents and visitors. I don't do afterhours often, but every now and then on a Friday or Saturday night, I feel like going out late. Nightclubs of all types add to the appeal of a city in the first place. It's part of the urban experience in most larger cities, and noise is to be expected.

[bwithers1]

Here in Chicago there were some legal proceedings going on near me when somebody built a mid-rise loft condo building on a vacant lot next to an existing night club. Of course, the condo developers promoted the fact that the building was in the heart of an entertainment district. Then a few of the condo owners started complaining about the noise from the buildling next door and there were threats of pulling licenses, et al. It was actually pretty ugly for a while. For their part, the nightclub did spend a ton of money to redo their sound system and to soundproof the roof, and they are still in business, and the condo owners haven't been heard from in a while. But it is pretty idiotic to move next to a noisy nightclub and then complain about the noise and the people on the street in front of your building.

It's like moving next to a train line and suing the train company for noise, or moving next to O'Hare airport, forcing the city of Chicago to soundproof your home, and still suing the city constantly. It would be one thing if you bought your house in the 1950s before the airport opened, but come on!

I actually live on the 14th floor of a building near a hospital, and I can tell you that there are constant sirens and car horns going all the time. But that is a trade off for having a view of Wrigley field out one window and Lake Michigan out the other. I will not be lodging any complaints.

[Hankster]

What a suggestion! What would you say to the business owners in that part of town who bought or leased space so they could operate after hours clubs? "Sorry, but you're business doesn't jive with the new residential mix"?

Honestly, I find it highly disturbing how flipantly people say things like "The should shut this business down, they should shut that business down". How about they shut your business down first, then we'll go check on the others? That sounds better to me.

I agree. It's simply amazing how the government tries to dictate everthing. Here in Chattanooga, they are threatening to close some check cashing businesses on a couple of roads here simply because they are too close together. They passed a city ordinance stating that check cashing establishments must be at least 1/4 mile apart from one another. I'm no proponent of these check cashing businesses because I think they're a rip off, but why should people care about close close together check cashing business are. It makes me shake my head in disbelief.

[frankliner]

I hope the all the new condos DT have good sound proofing. As I drive on the weekends DT at 4 and 5 in the morning, I am blown away by the number of people on the streets and the number of times I hear police, fire, and ambulance sirens. Thats not to mention all the loud stereos that are booming. Most of the problem are the late night clubs. I really hope they close down the after hours clubs DT as public nuicences. There is no place for them in a residential mix.

I also share your concerns about sound proofing. However, these late-night joints are precisely what attracts me to downtown. In case I have one of those insomniac episodes, I wanna be able to get out of bed and go down to see some hot chics on the sidewalk . I do wonder if emergency services will be more considerate with their sirens though. In DC, I hardly ever heard a siren after midnight when I was living there and I lived on one of the busiest streets (Connecticut Ave).

[smeagolsfree]

I am not talking about the regular places that have been there for years. The ones I am talking about are a draw to gang members, thugs, and criminals. Don't get me wrong either because it is not any particular race, but mainly a young urban crowd of Blacks, Hispanics and Whites who only wants to cause trouble. I have been DT and seen running fights in the middle of 2nd avenue and Metro was nowhere to be seen. Normally on the weekend early in the morning. These are clubs where you BYOB. My opinion is that they are not regulated and they should be. Sorry if you dont agree, but that is how I feel. I have seen people threatened by this criminal element. They need to go play somewhere else. Wait till one of the new residents in the Signature are attacked or killed by this element. I think you will see Metro take action on these so called clubs soon.

[jcoop]

If those are your concerns, they are justified. A little bit of specification is all that was needed to clarify that you don't mean all clubs or bars on 2nd ave

[nashvillwill]

When you consider ever kind of bar....I agree that part of living in an urban environment is dealing with urban nise. Although, I have always been skeptical of the after hours clubs. There are liquor laws for a reason. Agree or not, it is the law. I am guilty of drinking in my own home after hours......but I am AT home. If the law says that I can't roam the streets at 5am with a drink, then I won't do it!

Give and take! If you don't like noise.....don't live in town. If you don't like rules, live on a farm. If you worry about morals....watch your kids! Otherwise, learn to love your neighbors.

[smeagolsfree]

Sorry I didn't specify before, but those are the clubs I mean. I have been DT very early and seen some really big problems. I think all the other clubs and restaurants are fine. Most of the time the managers and the owners of those establishments police their own problems.

[Onyte9]

Getting back on topic. I think this is a beautiful project. With the acception of the trail west building those buildings are terrible. This project will improve the whole block, also yet another surface lot bites the dust! I absolutely love the renderings and next to the Signature this is my favorite project. There are many cities out there that can only dream of a beautiful structure like this being built.

[Hankster]

Getting back on topic. I think this is a beautiful project. With the acception of the trail west building those buildings are terrible. This project will improve the whole block, also yet another surface lot bites the dust! I absolutely love the renderings and next to the Signature this is my favorite project. There are many cities out there that can only dream of a beautiful structure like this being built.

I think this is a great project too that will be wonderful for downtown Nashville. I predict that activity in the area will be on the increase, the vast majority of people will think the project will have improved Broadway significantly and we have more residents living in the area to boot. As I've said numerous time before, "Let's build this thing!" And now it's beginning to look like that's exactly what we'll do!

[Hankster]

http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2006/8/1...pite_foul_water

Here is what I posted on the meeting yesterday. I also talked about it on News 2 this morning. That link is on our site as well and it's free too.

Here's an exerpt from the article above:

"they still will have to get a skyplane variance for the Third Avenue side of the building, or they will file for rezoning to specific plan.

The variance would put the developers in front of the Board of Zoning of Appeals, which requires a public hearing. A loss there wouldn't kill the deal. They could still go for the specific plan zoning, but it would be a costly loss since the application fee for a variance would be about $100,000. With specific plan zoning, they would go before the Metro Planning Commission.

If shot down there, the battle goes to the 40-member Metro Council, where Jameson would be the key player for whether the project flies or doesn't".

Does anyone have any information as to how long this process should take? I'm assuming that they would go to the Board of Zoning of Appeals, and that a public hearing would have to be scheduled, since it sounds like they have nothing to lose by going that way. Has anything been scheduled?

[jice]

Here's an exerpt from the article above:

"they still will have to get a skyplane variance for the Third Avenue side of the building, or they will file for rezoning to specific plan.

The variance would put the developers in front of the Board of Zoning of Appeals, which requires a public hearing. A loss there wouldn't kill the deal. They could still go for the specific plan zoning, but it would be a costly loss since the application fee for a variance would be about $100,000. With specific plan zoning, they would go before the Metro Planning Commission.

If shot down there, the battle goes to the 40-member Metro Council, where Jameson would be the key player for whether the project flies or doesn't".

Does anyone have any information as to how long this process should take? I'm assuming that they would go to the Board of Zoning of Appeals, and that a public hearing would have to be scheduled, since it sounds like they have nothing to lose by going that way. Has anything been scheduled?

If I understand correctly.... going before BZA for a skyplane variance is what costs the $100,000 app fee. So they are more likely to apply for specific plan zoning, and bypass the BZA.

[barakat]

Richard - Now that SP zoning is an option, what are the reasons anyone would choose to get a skyplane variance?

[Richard Lawson]

Richard - Now that SP zoning is an option, what are the reasons anyone would choose to get a skyplane variance?

Good question.... It depends on whether the developer thinks they can get it there or through Metro Council. The app fee is high for sure. But if a fight in council drags out so would the costs for lobbying and lawyers etc. as well as lost opportunity cost.

[jice]

Good question.... It depends on whether the developer thinks they can get it there or through Metro Council. The app fee is high for sure. But if a fight in council drags out so would the costs for lobbying and lawyers etc. as well as lost opportunity cost.

So I assume the BZA process is a quicker one? Does it still have to go to Metro Council in the end if they were to get the variance?