Westin on Lower Broad

[frankliner]

Well I guess everyone is afraid to post the results of the Planning Meeting yesterday. This from the Tennessean today and covers the public meeting held at the Symphony Center and the results of the Planning meeting. It passed 8-2.

http://my.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...556/MICRO021301

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS02/611150417

[Richard Lawson]

I did my take on the meeting and published this morning. It's still behind the subscriber wall so anyone with a subscription should feel free to quote liberally from it.

[prguy]

Well I guess everyone is afraid to post the results of the Planning Meeting yesterday. This from the Tennessean today and covers the public meeting held at the Symphony Center and the results of the Planning meeting. It passed 8-2.

http://my.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...556/MICRO021301

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS02/611150417

[elguapo731]

Curious... Does anyone know what is going on at the intersection of 4th and where the new Hotel is going up over in SoBro. The building in question is the old engine machine building that has moved to Craighead. I remember reading that the building had been under contract for awhile but I think it had lapsed and was availiable again.... Anyway, a demolition crew is tearing down the building. Anyone have word as to what is going on? Has it been sold? It's a big plot of land and in a primo spot right across from the new (future) hotel and just down the street from the Hall of Fame and Encore. Has nice access since it's on the end of that bridge and right where the city spent good money making the street pedestrian friendly.

[ATLBrain]

Tower Properties from California just bought that block of land. They are prepping it for future use either with or without a new CC located in the adjacent block. Tower said it could work with the city or not. So they've got bucks to spend. My bet is on a hotel.

[Hankster]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...ESS02/611150417

[smeagolsfree]

Part of the problem here Hank is that you have Metro Council meetings every two weeks. Next is you have the holidays and I think they are required by law to post the agenda so far in advance. This was the same problem they had last year for the Sounds vote.

[Richard Lawson]

Part of the problem here Hank is that you have Metro Council meetings every two weeks. Next is you have the holidays and I think they are required by law to post the agenda so far in advance. This was the same problem they had last year for the Sounds vote.

[smeagolsfree]

Thanks Richard, I figured you would be one of the ones in the know.

[ATLBrain]

So then what would the developer be expected to do b/n the time of the Planning meeting and the Council meeting two months later? Planning suggested some changes (including height), but passed it 8-2. So with that margin, what is a developer to do if he wants the project to have a better chance of passing in Council? Of course, the cynic in me says he wouldn't have to do anything to the project as long as he schmoozed the right Council members. Jameson's compromise sounds like it has merit. What does the outcome of this project portend for the BBS tower?

[Richard Lawson]

So then what would the developer be expected to do b/n the time of the Planning meeting and the Council meeting two months later? Planning suggested some changes (including height), but passed it 8-2. So with that margin, what is a developer to do if he wants the project to have a better chance of passing in Council? Of course, the cynic in me says he wouldn't have to do anything to the project as long as he schmoozed the right Council members. Jameson's compromise sounds like it has merit. What does the outcome of this project portend for the BBS tower?

[ATLBrain]

Thanks for the insight, Richard. I'm still amazed at how hard it is to get a new project built in DT Nashville. Plus, the zoning that's in place doesn't seem to be equitable to the property owners. Plus, it doesn't seem to produce consistently good/attractive results (e.g. proliferaton of parking lots in front of new buildings on West End and arbitrary height limits on new buildings in what is hoped to be a dense area). Go figure!

Somebody once told me that Nashville was a growing city despite itself. Now I'm beginning to understand the sentiment behind that.

[Richard Lawson]

Thanks for the insight, Richard. I'm still amazed at how hard it is to get a new project built in DT Nashville. Plus, the zoning that's in place doesn't seem to be equitable to the property owners. Plus, it doesn't seem to produce consistently good/attractive results (e.g. proliferaton of parking lots in front of new buildings on West End and arbitrary height limits on new buildings in what is hoped to be a dense area). Go figure!

Somebody once told me that Nashville was a growing city despite itself. Now I'm beginning to understand the sentiment behind that.

[doormanpoet]

BTW, the engine company building someone mentioned that is on fourth avenue was torn down for the extension of Gateway Blvd up to 8th Avenue. Tower development owns land behind the arena and has some connection with Marriott Development.

Many hotel companies are looking at sites in SOBRO because of the POSSIBLE new convention center, which in my opinion will go where PCS Metals is. It is my OPINION that the city will offer PCS Metals a lot of money for the land, and COULD be taken by imminant domain. I do agree with some that SOBRO does not need a box convention center.

In regards to the Westin, as far as I know, The Barber Group has NOT looked at any other sites such as the large lot across from the Cumberland, or the large surface lot next to Hooters. Remember, MDHA and the Planning Department stopped a 15 story tower from being built there in the late 1980's.

Although I am on record as being opposed to Rick Barnhardt and Anne Roberts, my apologies for the bridge comment, I do think Church Street would be more fitting than Lower Broadway, but that seems to be the only option the Barber Group has so the city might as well support it and embrace it.

The bottom line is that this project has to go through, or other hotel companies may view Nashville as too restrictive and too unwilling for compromise and thus go to another city. Remember, we are in competition with Louisville, Orlando, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Birmingham, Charlotte and other "boom" cities. Do not think the Titans and the Predators are the automatic draw for Nashville. We attracted corporations and hotels long before we had pro sports.

There are other major developments on the horizon for midtown and West End not including West End Summit, and our city cannot tarnish itself by having too many restrictions on development.

[BnaBreaker]

The bottom line is that this project has to go through, or other hotel companies may view Nashville as too restrictive and too unwilling for compromise and thus go to another city. Remember, we are in competition with Louisville, Orlando, Phoenix, Jacksonville, Birmingham, Charlotte and other "boom" cities. Do not think the Titans and the Predators are the automatic draw for Nashville. We attracted corporations and hotels long before we had pro sports.

[Hankster]

These deal very likely will get council approval in Feb. It will go through public hearing on second reading in early January, get deferred until the second meeting in January (but no public hearing again) and then pass on third reading at one of the two meetings in Feb.

[jcoop]

great location definitely...the design is just still a little bland. But I wouldn't be surprised if 10 years from now it fits right in with an expanded downtown core and then sitting right down in the middle is historic honky tonk Broadway which will always draw the tourists right in...it amazes me everytime I take a new friend to Nashville how much they love this little area

Basically all I'm saying is that if this doesn't happen now, it's only a matter of time before it will happen.

[it's just dave]

jcoop, that's the way I look at it too. For all the people who are doing their best to protect the area by wanting to stop current projects, I like to look at some of this development as the beginning of a cradling effect. You take the CDB on one hand and SoBro on the other. Each filled with large investments, large populations of people. These two areas, including the Westin begin to form the two "hands" cradling something precious. The corny analogy would be a baby bird, vulnerable to outside forces, but safe. The bird might not even know it's being protected, but it is. As the two areas are built up around Broadway, I think we may be looking at one of our last chances to assure this area is protected, cradled and cared for as it should be. By having that "security wall" on each side of our historic district, encroachment by ANYTHING counter to the current philosophy would be virtually impossible, and thus, Broadway will live and be better because of it. That my take on it.

[ATLBrain]

I see your point. Taken a bit farther, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Westin owners and management would even become the biggest proponents of preservation of Lower Broad. It would make sense given everything we can foresee. In other words, why would they kill the golden goose? They'd be in a position to have the only large hotel directly in the middle of the Broadway district. Hilton and Renaissance are close, but not in the middle of it all.

From what I've read, it sounds like your vision of the security wall is part of Councilman Jameson's proposal to see that the Westin project passes.

[it's just dave]

I haven't had much time to hear what Mr. Jameson has to say, but that's the way I see it. To me, it's a practical approach. Even the Crown building will help. Neighborhood benefactors are rarely invisible and even more rarely, poor. And in these instances, community philanthropy can begin at home, on the streets where [they] live a.k.a. the property owners with the largest investments to grow...or lose. Keeping Broadway's historic district intact, and I don't doubt they know this, is in their best interests.

[Nashvillain]

This article by Christine Kreyling in last weeks Scene, Westin Redux, makes Dave's and Brain's points clearly, the Barber group would no doubt be in favor of a future conservation overlay for Lower Broadway, after they build their junky-ass hotel.

I think this article gives a clear account of the economics of this project and how it's driving not only the scale of this development, obviously, but also the aesthetics of the development. They're paying between $8-$9,000,000 for these parcels at $158 a square foot when land nearby sold for between $50 and $60 per square foot. A good chunk of their pre-construction budget is also going into PR and fighting codes and regulations. We can all see how little of their budget has gone into the architecture.

In my opinion, the basic story is this; out of town developer with no consideration or respect for downtown Nashville sees an opportunity to make money off Nashville, dangles the prospect of big economic rewards for the area in the faces of local business and metro gov. in exchange for eradicating a big chunk of what makes Nashville, Nashville, in order to maximize the return on its dubious investment. I know that many of you see nothing wrong with this scenario, capitalism is capitalism and that's surely what this is. What's unfortunate is that Metro doesn't have the balls to stick to its guns and enforce the existing zoning and height restrictions and setbacks for the area. It's also unfortunate that Lower Broad did not have an historic zoning overlay in place prior to this proposal.

An interesting idea from Mike Jameson is for the Barber Group to increase the height of the facade at the street level in order to lower the height of the tower. I would be all for this if the street level facades weren't a pile of crap that would only be made worse by being a couple stories taller, but at this point, I don't see the Barber Group going back to the drawing board and redesigning these portions of the buildings to any suitable degree.

[Nashvillain]

Seems like the debate on this one is pretty much played out but I'll go ahead and throw one more stick on the fire anyway. This is an op-ed from today's Tennessean written by James Hoobler, curator of Art and Architecture at the Tennessee State Museum (according to UrbanChick over on Nashville Charrette. I was able to ascertain that he works at the museum, but not in what capacity. I'm a lazy googler), he's also on the board of the Metro Historical Commission.

Tennessee Voices: Don't Let a Highrise Overshadow Our Broadway Heritage

[ATLBrain]

Understandably, it's an emotional appeal. However, I think he undercuts his point when he jumps over from the historical block of Broadway to the site of the proposed BBS tower... which is currently a parking lot.

[Nashvillain]

Understandably, it's an emotional appeal. However, I think he undercuts his point when he jumps over from the historical block of Broadway to the site of the proposed BBS tower... which is currently a parking lot.

[FluffyP13]

yeah i dont see why everyone cant come to some sort of comprimise. why not just build a hotel there that looks like it belongs. build a building that looks historic too, that looks like it has been there forever. you can still have your location and blend into the surroundings. in franklin they just built a beautiful new courthouse downtown and it matches the historic character of downtown franklin. it looks like it could have been there for years. why not just do that here bc this has become such a big deal.