210 Trade | EpiCentre

[nonillogical]

I think that would be very aggressive at this point. Probably would increase the construction costs and potentially compromise the design - just for a 1-2 week time. I would think a hotel operator would be looking at the next 20 years - not just a convention next summer.

Yeah, a full hotel for a week is not worth the cost and trouble of fast-tracking this. That said, if its STARTED by then, it would at least look kind of good to have a crane uptown.

[mad_park]

A somewhat concerning article about youths 'cruising' at the Epicenter....sounds like a lot of these folks are just hanging out on the sidewalks and common areas...not necessarily patronizing the businesses there. Would hate to see this place go the way of Underground Atlanta...

Most weekend nights, hundreds - sometimes thousands - of teens and young adults walk the stretch around the EpiCentre entertainment complex. Bus after bus at the Charlotte Transportation Center drops off more youths happy to join the party.<br style="margin-top: 0px; ">...

"That's their country club," says Ray Wilson, a gang expert who works with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. "That's the only place they can go ... where you're going to see everyone you know. You can eat there, you can meet girls there. If you want to buy drugs, you can do it right there."<br style=margin-top: 0px; "><br style="margin-top: 0px; ">Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/07/03/2425560/police-to-focus-monday-on-cruising.html#ixzz1RAL066X3

[Skyybutter]

A somewhat concerning article about youths 'cruising' at the Epicenter....sounds like a lot of these folks are just hanging out on the sidewalks and common areas...not necessarily patronizing the businesses there. Would hate to see this place go the way of Underground Atlanta...

Most weekend nights, hundreds - sometimes thousands - of teens and young adults walk the stretch around the EpiCentre entertainment complex. Bus after bus at the Charlotte Transportation Center drops off more youths happy to join the party.<br style="margin-top: 0px; ">...

"That's their country club," says Ray Wilson, a gang expert who works with the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. "That's the only place they can go ... where you're going to see everyone you know. You can eat there, you can meet girls there. If you want to buy drugs, you can do it right there."<br style=margin-top: 0px; "><br style="margin-top: 0px; ">Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/07/03/2425560/police-to-focus-monday-on-cruising.html#ixzz1RAL066X3

I read the article as well and I have mixed feelings. 16 years ago in 1995 I can remember going uptown on a sunday to take some pictures and I think I may have saw 10 other people and some of those were homeless. Charlotte has worked so hard and spent tons of money for the whole region to now be able to enjoy it. I too would hate to see things slide into a crime infested, uneasy feeling area. But.... on the flip side major cities have been dealing with this type of thing for decades. It's still pretty new for Charlotte. Obviously we cant pick and choose who we want to be around us walking down College, Trade or Tryon. If businesses start to see decline in any form I have no doubt that problems will be addressed. In the meantime, those who go to this area on fridays or saturdays will have to be prepared. I was a little surprised by the one persons comment about "if you want to get drugs you can do it right there"...ummm good for the drug dealers for that to be in the paper...lol... not so good for the area. Anyway, 16 years ago we were just wanting people to be Uptown, to feel somewhat like it was a happening....well, that has all happened and then some.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Skyybutter

[mallguy]

It is good to have people coming uptown but other cities with downtowns that attract lots of people for entertainment options at night don't have the same gang/violence problem that Charlotte does. Greenville, SC definitely does not; its downtown attracts plenty of young people and families and I've never heard of gang violence, shootings, etc. happening, and vagrants do not loiter there like they do in Charlotte.

Perhaps Charlotte's problems with gang violence and shootings come from (1) Uptown being so close to a rough area, just north of I-277, and (2) high transit use from rough areas.

I have a place in Fourth Ward and have lived in plenty of other larger urban areas but have not seen the same gang/violence problems elsewhere. Nor have I been bugged, to put it nicely, by vagrants in other places like I have been in Charlotte.

Charlotte needs a much stronger police presence uptown, for starts. Panhandling simply should not be tolerated, for one thing.

[krazeeboi]

It is good to have people coming uptown but other cities with downtowns that attract lots of people for entertainment options at night don't have the same gang/violence problem that Charlotte does. Greenville, SC definitely does not; its downtown attracts plenty of young people and families and I've never heard of gang violence, shootings, etc. happening, and vagrants do not loiter there like they do in Charlotte.

Not true. Greenville did indeed have to deal with this very same issue of young people congregating at Falls Park, sometimes causing problems, getting into fights, etc. The city has handled it by instituting a curfew which seems to be effective.

It should also be kept in mind that this sort of thing seems to be more pronounced in several cities in the summer months when school is out.

While I didn't live in uptown when I lived in Charlotte, I was in uptown quite a bit and can only recall a few times I've been approached by "vagrants." They really aren't a huge issue in uptown because their presence is diluted by regular pedestrians. You want to see what it looks like to have a downtown full of vagrants in certain spots? Come on down to my neck of the woods; it makes all of uptown look like Disneyland in that regard.

[Skyybutter]

I have lived in both Philadelphia and D.C and the vagrant thing is just part of big city living. I learned very very quickly to walk looking straight ahead. If someone says 'Sir" NEVER look at them! I know it sounds kind of un-southern, but unless you want to be bugged to death you basically have to ignore. I dont remember Philly having as many gang related incidents, but the murder rate was 300+ per year so Im sure it went on, the news just didn't talk about it as much as they do in Charlotte.

[Norm2]

Chicago gets pretty bad crime every summer. I was there for the 4th of July in Chicago and they had a gang related shooting down there. there was only one shooting that I recall and there were 1 million people in Grant Park for the fire works. Crime and gangs are unfortunately a part of city life. I do think though that the city could find a solution to the teens loitering around the Epicenter and the transit center. T

[New Name]

the news just didn't talk about it as much as they do in Charlotte.

I honestly think this is a problem in Charlotte. We [arguably] have graduated to a big "city," but the news cast haven't seemed to get the message. Either they don't know how to report on all of the things Charlotte has to offer, or they don't care about anything other than the social unrest caused by an influx of population. The reports make it seem like Mayberry is being overrun. But this isn't Mayberry.

[NcSc74]

I honestly think this is a problem in Charlotte. We [arguably] have graduated to a big "city," but the news cast haven't seemed to get the message. Either they don't know how to report on all of the things Charlotte has to offer, or they don't care about anything other than the social unrest caused by an influx of population. The reports make it seem like Mayberry is being overrun. But this isn't Mayberry.

Having visited many cities this is part of city life IMO. I'm sure some folks have visited big cities and liked some of the amenities but none of the other baggage that comes with it. People flock to cities that offer opportunity. Some of them dont make it and unfortunately they end up homeless or living close to it. To some native to the city that might be a little alarming but be flattered it is happening. It means the city and region is doing big things. Now it must adjust from small provincial town to national player. If those of you who wanted big city then be ready to deal with big city problems. . The question is will the city leaders over-react and do something detrimental to the burgeoning nightlife or will moderate heads prevail and tackle the problem objectively. I have faith the citizens and to some point politicians of Charlotte will reduce some of the crime while continuing the growth of the urban nightlife fabric. Charlotte seems to be the progressive leader in the state concerning social-economic growth for all parties. I do agree that the media should stop trying to stoke the "our small town is being overran with hooligans" flames and grow up. More money, more problems=bigger city, big city problems. Most vagrants and homeless are harmless and to some extent add to the feel and grit of the city. Not endorsing it or saying its ok but honestly a clean and crime free utopia will not happen in a country full of people with free will. Remember all of the bad press over the years Charlotte has gotten about being sterile and lifeless. Im certain anyone of us here on urbanplanet cringe when we here that word "sterile". I remember the numerous arguments about Charlotte and that word.

Edited July 6, 2011 by NcSc74

[SmellyCat]

I honestly think this is a problem in Charlotte. We [arguably] have graduated to a big "city," but the news cast haven't seemed to get the message. Either they don't know how to report on all of the things Charlotte has to offer, or they don't care about anything other than the social unrest caused by an influx of population. The reports make it seem like Mayberry is being overrun. But this isn't Mayberry.

Not surprising given whom the news down here is probably catering too. I assume it's many of the same conservative idiots who bash everything in existence on the charlotteobserver comments section.

[mallguy]

Not true. Greenville did indeed have to deal with this very same issue of young people congregating at Falls Park, sometimes causing problems, getting into fights, etc. The city has handled it by instituting a curfew which seems to be effective.

It should also be kept in mind that this sort of thing seems to be more pronounced in several cities in the summer months when school is out.

While I didn't live in uptown when I lived in Charlotte, I was in uptown quite a bit and can only recall a few times I've been approached by "vagrants." They really aren't a huge issue in uptown because their presence is diluted by regular pedestrians. You want to see what it looks like to have a downtown full of vagrants in certain spots? Come on down to my neck of the woods; it makes all of uptown look like Disneyland in that regard.

Indeed you're right about Greenville.

For vagrants uptown- I have spent several years living and working in Charlotte, both in the center of uptown. I have also lived in NYC and another large US city, plus several European ones, all in center city areas. I am frequently asked for cash by panhandlers in Charlotte, and I've also heard gunshots (at the July 4 melee probably 6 years or so ago), from within my home in Charlotte.

Conversely, I've been asked for cash a handful of times in over a decade of living in central Manhattan. There may be the same number of panhandlers in both (although I think Charlotte has more per square foot, probably due to the proximity of the rough area right north of I-277), but Manhattan has just so many more people per square foot that the typical citizen vs. panhandler ratio is much worse in Charlotte.

Try walking down N. Tryon on an early morning on a weekend- the vagrant to typical citizen ratio is out the roof.

ETA: I have never heard gunshots in any other city.

Just my two cents. Too bad there is no Rudy Giuliani to lay down the law in Charlotte.

Edited July 7, 2011 by mallguy

[Urbanity]

It's a little odd to compare Charlotte to NYC, but since we got off track let me say that I am a several generation New Yorker who only moved here from NYC in 2008 and I can attest that NYC's modern reputation as a safe glamorous metropolis is a very recent development of the last 20 years.

Look up pictures of Hell's Kitchen and Times Square (midtown Manhattan btw) in the 80's and even most of the 90's and you'll see how dramatic the shift was. There's were also the Tompkins Square park riots in the East Village; the constant drug slayings in Washington Heights and Chelsea and let's not fool ourselves to even think that Lower Manhattan in the Tribeca area was always that posh - And don't even get me started on the hoods of Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx!

Now I would like to tie a few things together and bring this all back to the Epicentre and 210 Trade, Someone mentioned that Charlotte looks positively like Disney compared to Greenville (I think?) and the comparison to NYC (and my own thoughts of how scary Times Square was for decades in NY) kind of get me thinking of the Epicentre.

Frankly, my only regret with the Epicentre area to date is that it hasn't gone Times Square enough. I would make the OMNI hotel cover that bland 3-4 story College street blank wall with Neon advertisements. I would set up some kind of ticker-tape electronic billboard around the outer railings of the Epicenter themselves. Let them drop the New Year's Eve Ball from somewhere up above the Epicentre and further develop College Street on either side.

In truth all the above would probably exacerbate the quality of life issues that are being talked about re: rowdy crowds and *wink wink* undesirables - but the fact of the matter is that Charlotte can either take advantage of what I think is a strength in that area and exploit it even further or it can try to batten down the hatches and just hope that Epicentre doesn't die out like underground Atlanta did and leave us one hell of an embarrassing to be avoided attraction because its considered dead.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Urbanity

[krazeeboi]

Someone mentioned that Charlotte looks positively like Disney compared to Greenville (I think?)

No, I was saying that in terms of vagrants/panhandlers, uptown looks like Disney compared to my neck of the woods (Atlanta).

[Urbanity]

Small blurb in today's CBJ that has me excited - basically both MSNBC and Fox News are in negotiations to lease space in the Epicentre for the DNC'12.

While this will only be a short-term leasing arrangement - I would love to see the Epicentre follow through on this kind of development and try to secure more permanent media tenants in the complex.  I still have a wish that some form of a news tickertape billboard is set up in complex as well.

In other news - The following are pending leases for the site acorrding to the same article:  Modern Salon, and expansion of Black Finn, Yard House Resturant. Funny Bone, Kripsy Kreme (About freakin time!) Truliant, a tanning Salon, Providence eye and the McDevitt Agency

[nonillogical]

There are window cling graphics up for a place called "Bubble Lounge" on the large 2nd floor space above Vida. I guess I haven't been to the epicentre on a friday or saturday night in a while to see how big the crowds are, but do we need another one of these?

[sleightofhand]

There are window cling graphics up for a place called "Bubble Lounge" on the large 2nd floor space above Vida. I guess I haven't been to the epicentre on a friday or saturday night in a while to see how big the crowds are, but do we need another one of these?

Friday and Saturday nights especially are insanely crowded. We've got room for 5 more "Bubble Lounge" establishments in my opinion. Its gotten to the point where my friends and I avoid uptown on a Saturday night. My friends that work in the service industry refer to it as "amatuer night".

[nonillogical]

^more power to them, then. I was just hoping it would be a somewhat different take rather than what appears to be a Suite clone.

[Urbanity]

To both nonillogical and sleightofhand's points. I lean toward;s nonillogical's gut reaction of "do we really need another...: as I think Charlotte has more than its share of such places;however I was just at Epicentre on Saturday night (Vida for dinner) and sleightofhand is absolutely right in that there seems to be more than enough room for another club or two of the same vein.

On a related but different note, I've only been in Charlotte since 2008 and it amazes me how much downtown has changed in that short amount of time. When I first got here there were people on Tryon/5th street area for the most part - now the whole city just seems alive with a constant flow of people on weekends.

[Spartan]

I have to agree, Urbanity. As much as I personally dislike the Epicentre, it has done wonders for pedestrian traffic on weekends, and not just at night. It's even starting to spread with the Charlotte Plaza building allowing ground-level retail to open up to the exterior.

[New Name]

There is a lot of potential for "spreading" too: Usually I enter Epicentre via Tryon/The Square at 101 Independence/Omni. This allows me to park on Tryon street parking, and enter through the Overstreet Mall - then across the pedestrian bridge by Einsteins. That one ped-bridge could do wonders to spread shopping across the blocks (if only the Overstreet Mall had anything worthwhile in it). Think of the possibilities of 101 Independence opened to the Square with a destination...

[Spartan]

If the Overstreet Mall didn't have anything in it, the streets on neighboring blocks would have more businesses and shops worth going to. Charlotte lacks a consistent corridor of shops and restaurants in uptown.

[ah59396]

The AHL team and affiliate to the Carolina Hurricanes, YOUR Charlotte Checkers, just opened a brand new office and retail store on the 4th floor of the Epicenter. I think this a great addition to the retail shops already in place and will hopefully bring more exposure to the team and some new shoppers uptown. They had a great showing the other day for Carolina Hurricanes "fan fest" and the exhibition (NHL Preseason) the other night against the Winnipeg Jets pulled over 10,000!

[49er]

If the Overstreet Mall didn't have anything in it, the streets on neighboring blocks would have more businesses and shops worth going to. Charlotte lacks a consistent corridor of shops and restaurants in uptown.

True, but Charlotte tore down all the buildings that had street level retail so at this point closing Overstreet wouldn't change a whole lot to get back the street vibe of continuous shops. I was Downtown for the Panthers game and was encouraged to see how projects like the Ale house/Panera at Charlotte Plaza are beginning to correct some of the mistakes from the past. A lot of the 70's and 80's buildings had so much wasted lobby space that these conversions just seem natural.

[Guest]

210 Trade Investments is in talks with a major hotel chain to develop a hotel where the tower was supposed to go... The only thing that can derail this is the ongoing court battle. I would love for something to be built here! I just think its so weird to have two hotels in the same development!

[15895]

Do you have a source?