210 Trade | EpiCentre

[atlrvr]

Location is good.....building footprint is poor...WAY too small to be considered for Class A office space.

[monsoon]

I am curious if the City of Charlotte should have done more homework before agreeing to sell this property to the 210 Trade/Epicenter developers for the paltry amount of money they got for it.

[atlrvr]

Probably...they were just happy to pocket some cash and get it back on the tax rolls (remember they had two previous bids fall through years earlier)....this whole process has been very transaction intensive. The city sold it to BofA/Wachovia who then sold it to a partnership headed by Spectrum, who then sold the managing partner share to Ghazi, who in then in turn has parceled up air rights and sold them off to F&C and Noble.

This all took place at the forefront of the development boom. If done today, I would bet the city would have enacted a much tighter set of controls. Alas, they had an arena to pay for, and bidders with cash on hand weren't exactly lined up at the city's doorstep.

[Andyc545]

I'd be curious to see how all of this has an effect on Ghazi's future development, particularly the recently announced Catalyst Millwaukee, which is essentially the same thing that the 210 Trade/Epicentre complex is...

[monsoon]

Probably...they were just happy to pocket some cash and get it back on the tax rolls (remember they had two previous bids fall through years earlier)....this whole process has been very transaction intensive. The city sold it to BofA/Wachovia who then sold it to a partnership headed by Spectrum, who then sold the managing partner share to Ghazi, who in then in turn has parceled up air rights and sold them off to F&C and Noble.

This all took place at the forefront of the development boom. If done today, I would bet the city would have enacted a much tighter set of controls. Alas, they had an arena to pay for, and bidders with cash on hand weren't exactly lined up at the city's doorstep.

Indeed. Now that I think about it, I don't think the original technicolor Ghazi proposal for this property included a 50 story condo tower. That seemed to get bolted onto the proposal some time after the deal was struck with the city. Maybe they really don't care in regards to their own bottom line if it gets built or not, though I assume they will care about the lawsuit.

Update: I did some looking at some 2004 articles posted here and yes this recollection seems to be correct. Originally Ghazi was going to redevelop the existing convention center building into an entertainment center. No mention of a 50 story tower.

[Neo]

Update: I did some looking at some 2004 articles posted here and yes this recollection seems to be correct. Originally Ghazi was going to redevelop the existing convention center building into an entertainment center. No mention of a 50 story tower.

I thought someone else was going to develop this project into an entertainment complex only and something went awry so Ghazi came to the "rescue?"

[voyager12]

What a major buzzkill it would be if Muvico and Lucky Strike were slowed down or cancelled because of this mess. They are both currently underway are they not?

[dubone]

It was Spectrum who was going to build that odd looking project in the old Civic Center building and they could not get it to work. Ghazi did come to the rescue and he envisioned adding a movie theater and a condo tower and that is what caused him to then plan to tear down the building and build new.

We've come a long way since then, and yes, if the condo tower gets axed, we still have more than was originally planned when the city sold the land. That does not mean it would not be better for the city and for the project to have those ~400 residential units on the site.

[HopHead]

What a major buzzkill it would be if Muvico and Lucky Strike were slowed down or cancelled because of this mess. They are both currently underway are they not?

From what I understand, Lucky Strike is scheduled to open in late August or early September. I don't believe either of the places you mentioned will be affected. Course, it would be nice if someone could confirm

[monsoon]

I thought someone else was going to develop this project into an entertainment complex only and something went awry so Ghazi came to the "rescue?"

I was referring to this post, that is from years ago. Ghazi and Spectrum properties originally proposed just doing a remodel on the existing convention center property. Looks like he gain control of the property on December 20, 2004.

[dubone]

That article from Doug is about the point in time that Ghazi became involved but the description of the project was all about what was proposed when Spectrum led the project. It was not long after Ghazi came involved that they started to talk about the need to tear down the building because there was the possibility of adding a condo tower and other tenants for which the original structure was not going work.

No doubt when Ghazi first came involved, there were plans to continue what Spectrum had started, which was simply to reuse the old building. But that original design was Sprectrum's, and it was Ghazi who made the plans to tear it down and add towers to the project.

[monsoon]

Yes. Later he proposed adding a bit more modest 44 story tower. Also the quality of the construction was to be of a bit more higher standard than what we ended up with. You can see his old new proposal here.

[Charlotte_native]

I'm very excited about a new retail place I found out about last night that is coming to EpiCentre...Rock & Roll Emporium is closing in Independence and moving there under a new name, Revolution! We really need this type of retail in uptown -- finally

[tiblerbrit]

and heres a link:

http://revolutionshop.net/

[dubone]

That detail linked is the 'glossy rendering' of what he actually built. There were reactions on this thread with each evolution of that design, some positive changes and some negative changes.

Ghazi even swore to the First Ward neighborhood not long before the facade actually went up, that the facade was to be mostly masonry and other solid materials. We all see how that turned out.

His design evolved, likely out of fiscal and site constraints, and what we are left with is the value engineered version of that rendering.

Also, that link lists both a 44-story version of the tower and a 53-story version. But looking at the 210 Trade sales website, the top floor is 48, so that is pretty much the version that would be built if it moves forward, since they would have made the sales for those floors. I am not sure if they can downsize and somehow move people who bought on higher floors to those lower floors.

[voyager12]

I'm very excited about a new retail place I found out about last night that is coming to EpiCentre...Rock & Roll Emporium is closing in Independence and moving there under a new name, Revolution! We really need this type of retail in uptown -- finally

That's great news

[Raintree21]

Does that place really have enough sales to afford a center city lease?

[Hornet]

This is REALLY ugly!

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stori...4193600^1653165

[Neo]

iPhone shots from Saturday:

[DjStedali]

This is REALLY ugly!

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/stori...4193600^1653165

Oh geesh, this is definitely not looking good. If the county doesnt allow those temporary certificates to be renewed we could have even more issues at hand. The current restaurants/bars could get quite upset if they have to close down their businesses because of the current fighting and delays and more than likely would result in somebody getting sued.

Flaherty & Collins need to grow up and realize that this is not going to get them anywhere. This is what happens when you jump into a huge project like this, complications arise. They were solved and Flaherty could have been starting on their condo tower by now, which I believe was last stated to begin in June. Except now they bring up this lawsuit for $70 million for what, an image enhancement cause they jumped the gun and didnt have quite the experience to handle such a big project.

As of right now I see no one to blame other than Flaherty for everything. With the inital complication, where were Flaherty & Ghazi's lawyers on the code about land ownership, someone should have known that. And then we get finger pointing from Flaherty that it is all Ghazi's fault for the hold up. If it was indeed their fault, force Ghazi to pay for all the lawsuits that may result from it, ie. the contractor lawsuit.

The way I see it, Flaherty is part of a massive project that is going to generate a heavy sum of revenue, lots of condo towers to be purchased, and lots of revenue share between the hotel and commercial businesses on the premises. If Flaherty wasnt smart enough to set up a contract to have revenue share then shame on them.

[origin.clt]

Looking at the webcam today, it appears that crews are removing much of the formwork from the tower footprint as well as dismantling the climbing core form.

[atlrvr]

In the ongoing drama/saga....Ghazi countersued, seeking $92M in damages, and asked the court to triple that amount in punitive damages.

It sounds like there is plenty of blame to pass around to all parties, and a good guess would be the source was unrealistic expectations of costs on both sides.

[rockhilljames]

That really sucks. Without a tower component the project's always going to look half-finished.

Blah.

At least Vue and Encore will get some business from this...

[monsoon]

....

At least Vue and Encore will get some business from this...

Or maybe not. I would think that 2 partially built condos that have stopped work is going to put quite a damper on people's decision to fork out the kind of cash they are asking to buy one those condos. It certainly can't help.

[tiblerbrit]

Or maybe not. I would think that 2 partially built condos that have stopped work is going to put quite a damper on people's decision to fork out the kind of cash they are asking to buy one those condos. It certainly can't help.

I can see that argument, especially for condos doing presales from now on. The only difference, with the Vue anyway, is that a national developer is at the helm and I'm sure they know how to get their ducks in a row (including capital from a group in London). I doubt construction will stop on the Vue. Both of the stalled projects have local developers in charge which I'm sure is part of the problem. Who knows with Encore though, another complicated project with a relatively inexperienced developer.