CONSTRUCTION THREAD: Magnolia Park Town Center

[vicupstate]

This is not going to get built anytime soon, same thing for the Greer /Hwy 14 project. There is a recession/depression underway, no one is going to spend millions on retail right now.

[gman430]

Earlier in this thread there were comments about high-end retailers coming....what happened there? Did they withdraw? Not trying to start a war again, but an outdoor center with a Costco and a Rooms-to-Go only is NOT upscale.

They're not expanding right now. They'll probably still come to Magnolia Park but it will be a few years before that happens. Costco and RTG have been scheduled to get built on site since this project was first announced over three years ago. There is no timetable for completion of this project as it stands currently.

-The Highway 14/I-85 project is on hold mainly due to not being able to get financing. The site is undergoing a redesign currently also.

Edited January 29, 2009 by citylife

[goodbye]

This is not going to get built anytime soon, same thing for the Greer /Hwy 14 project. There is a recession/depression underway, no one is going to spend millions on retail right now.

Thanks vicupstate! That is what I was trying to share with some of these people not long ago. It would be folly to assume such a venture at such a time will be successful when all indication has been pointing to a contrary outcome without a prescient end. It is time to face the reality of our current economic condition and stop posting information like we know what is happening behind the scenes when we don't. We have seen quite a bit of misleading information lately in this thread.

[gs3]

I am involved with MPTC and have no confirmation as of this morning that this is indeed the case. Citylife, can you post or pm your source?

As regards retail, new store openings do no totally stop in a recession. Chains start to "rationalize"....they close unprofitable stores at the same time looking for locations that present higher margin opportunities. Of course the opening of 20 to 30 stores a year drops....a chain may only open 5 and they may close 5, thereby having no net gain. One thing retailers do is look for continual flow of money. They find it anyway / anywhere they can. If a market is performing above the national average, you will see some openings. Greenville is performing above the national average, not great, but above the national average.

To think development stops 100% in a recession is not looking at facts.

[gman430]

I am involved with MPTC and have no confirmation as of this morning that this is indeed the case. Citylife, can you post or pm your source?

I'll PM it to you.

[gs3]

I'll PM it to you.

Thanks.

[gman430]

As regards retail, new store openings do no totally stop in a recession. Chains start to "rationalize"....they close unprofitable stores at the same time looking for locations that present higher margin opportunities. Of course the opening of 20 to 30 stores a year drops....a chain may only open 5 and they may close 5, thereby having no net gain. One thing retailers do is look for continual flow of money. They find it anyway / anywhere they can. If a market is performing above the national average, you will see some openings. Greenville is performing above the national average, not great, but above the national average.

To think development stops 100% in a recession is not looking at facts.

-That statement is indeed true. Most retail commercial developments in the area are stopped due to not being able to get financing from banks not because they don't have enough tenants. However, in Magnolia Park's case the lack of tenants is why construction hasn't started. They have the financing.

-I know a lot of forum members on here think Magnolia Park is on hold indefinitely or even cancelled. That is not the case. The project will get built. It is just taking longer to get tenant leases than originally anticipated. They have lots of interest from retailers and restaurants. When the economy starts to improve, you will see construction start on the mixed use portion. Skyliner, the information I posted yesterday is accurate and confirmed.

Edited January 29, 2009 by citylife

[goodbye]

-That statement is indeed true. Most retail commercial developments in the area are stopped due to not being able to get financing from banks not because they don't have enough tenants. However, in Magnolia Park's case the lack of tenants is why construction hasn't started. They have the financing.

-I know a lot of forum members on here think Magnolia Park is on hold indefinitely or even cancelled. That is not the case. The project will get built. It is just taking longer to get tenant leases than originally anticipated. They have lots of interest from retailers and restaurants. When the economy starts to improve, you will see construction start on the mixed use portion. Skyliner, the information I posted yesterday is accurate and confirmed.

The project is on hold indefinitely, unless you have and are willing to share information regarding the precise timeframe of construction and so forth. Yesterday you said "Other spaces have not been leased enough yet to build it including retail space next to Woodruff Road." Earlier we were told, "Remember, the portion that is moving forward at the moment is only a small portion of shops that front Woodruff Road.....all of which were leased prior to the full blown downturn." Even earlier than that you said, "Not sure which retailers/restaurants will be part of phase 1. I heard phase 1 is 100% pre-leased though."

One of your most athoritative posts ironically reads as if it is factual, "The first phase of the construction (Rooms to Go and about 40,000 square feet of retail on Woodruff Road) will start end of this year/beginning of next year with a late Fall 2009 opening. The rest of the project will open in spring 2010. The project is moving forward even with the economy, which is great news." Of course, exactly two months following that post, you said,

Due to some changes made, Magnolia Park phase 1 has been moved to the January planning commission meeting:

http://www.greatergreenville.com/city_gove...agnoliaPark.pdf I'm hearing construction should start within the next month. Can't wait to see what traffic looks like on Woodruff Road once the whole center is completed.

Now it is time to face the realization that this serious economic crisis is unlike ANY we have lived through during our lives, regardless of our ages. The economic condition in this nation is growing worse every day. As of yet, professional forecasters see absolutely no definitive end in sight, which makes any prediction regarding large-scale retail development in our area nothing more than a hopeful wish.

[gman430]

The project is on hold indefinitely, unless you have and are willing to share information regarding the precise timeframe of construction and so forth. Yesterday you said "Other spaces have not been leased enough yet to build it including retail space next to Woodruff Road." Earlier we were told, "Remember, the portion that is moving forward at the moment is only a small portion of shops that front Woodruff Road.....all of which were leased prior to the full blown downturn." Even earlier than that you said, "Not sure which retailers/restaurants will be part of phase 1. I heard phase 1 is 100% pre-leased though."

One of your most athoritative posts ironically reads as if it is factual, "The first phase of the construction (Rooms to Go and about 40,000 square feet of retail on Woodruff Road) will start end of this year/beginning of next year with a late Fall 2009 opening. The rest of the project will open in spring 2010. The project is moving forward even with the economy, which is great news." Of course, exactly two months following that post, you said,

I didn't post the first bolded part. That was posted by gsupstate. Costar reported phase 1 as 100% pre-leased. They were wrong. The second bolded part is what the McGarey Group told me. They were wrong too. Sorry for the confusion regarding all of this. Sometimes sources don't give accurate information and it makes people who post it on forums look bad when it's not their fault. This latest information regarding the project is accurate and confirmed from Menin.

[goodbye]

...Sorry for the confusion regarding all of this. Sometimes sources don't give accurate information and it makes people who post it on forums look bad when it's not their fault...

Writers (at The Greenville News for example) and reporters usually know that proper journalism requires them to relay information to the public as if they are merely repeating what they have heard and seen, not as people who seem to know everything about the subject or what will happen in the future. As posters of potentially valuable information regarding developments in the Upstate, it would be a good idea to practice similar technique when sharing information that we have gathered from various sources. At the very least, please qualify your posts with "I heard from an inside source..." or "it is scheduled to start on..." rather than "it will start on..." without any credit to your source. Such mistakes often make us look bad and eventually lead to misunderstanding, as you stated.

[gman430]

Writers (at The Greenville News for example) and reporters usually know that proper journalism requires them to relay information to the public as if they are merely repeating what they have heard and seen, not as people who seem to know everything about the subject or what will happen in the future. As posters of potentially valuable information regarding developments in the Upstate, it would be a good idea to practice similar technique when sharing information that we have gathered from various sources. At the very least, please qualify your posts with "I heard from an inside source..." or "it is scheduled to start on..." rather than "it will start on..." without any credit to your source. Such mistakes often make us look bad and eventually lead to misunderstanding, as you stated.

I was just relaying what the retail consultant told me. Why are you getting upset with me over this? They said it will start construction during that time frame so that's what I posted on the forum. They never said scheduled. My source regarding that it would start at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 is the McGarey Group. I've already stated this numerous times. I'm not going to post something different than what they told me. That would be a lie.

Edited January 29, 2009 by citylife

[goodbye]

I was just relaying what the retail consultant told me. Why are you getting upset with me over this? They said it will start construction during that time frame so that's what I posted on the forum. They never said scheduled. My source regarding that it would start at the end of 2008/beginning of 2009 is the McGarey Group. I've already stated this numerous times. I'm not going to post something different than what they told me. That would be a lie.

If you prefer to post information as fact without source qualifiers, then don't be surprised when people hold you accountable for its failure to develop as stated. "C-Y-A" is more than mere lingo in the news industry.

[Greenville]

I am involved with MPTC and have no confirmation as of this morning that this is indeed the case. Citylife, can you post or pm your source?

As regards retail, new store openings do no totally stop in a recession. Chains start to "rationalize"....they close unprofitable stores at the same time looking for locations that present higher margin opportunities. Of course the opening of 20 to 30 stores a year drops....a chain may only open 5 and they may close 5, thereby having no net gain. One thing retailers do is look for continual flow of money. They find it anyway / anywhere they can. If a market is performing above the national average, you will see some openings. Greenville is performing above the national average, not great, but above the national average.

To think development stops 100% in a recession is not looking at facts.

Very well said. If some people here could stop drinking the Kool-Aid for a few minutes and allow your post to sink in, they would realize that the current recession does not mean that the world is coming to an end! The economy is certainly in a "down" period, but based on some of the posts here you would think that it rivals the Great Depression.

[goodbye]

Very well said. If some people here could stop drinking the Kool-Aid for a few minutes and allow your post to sink in, they would realize that the current recession does not mean that the world is coming to an end! The economy is certainly in a "down" period, but based on some of the posts here you would think that it rivals the Great Depression.

You are correct, it is never too difficult to maintain at least a modest level of hope in the midst of a severe recession. On the flip side, it is worth acknowledging the glaring fact that economists are saying that this economy has been rapidly declining to its worst condition since the Great Depression. Nearly every day we hear of new (sometimes surprising) victims of the deteriorating economy. Now is not the time to play games with highly volatile markets. Obviously this doesn't mean that there will not be any growth, but that is certainly becoming an increasingly rare occurrence.

[gman430]

I am involved with MPTC and have no confirmation as of this morning that this is indeed the case. Citylife, can you post or pm your source?

Menin recently received approval from the Greenville City Planning Commission to develop five retail buildings on a portion of the property fronting Woodruff Road. The buildings would rise between a Costco Wholesale store and a McDonald's restaurant in front of a vacant building that used to house Montgomery Ward.

But Menin must ink contracts with retailers before the buildings get constructed, and so far, it hasn't done that.

As for the other four buildings planned at Magnolia Park, Jacoby said Menin wouldn't develop them until it pre-leases a certain amount of the proposed retail space.

Source: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20090203/NEWS01/902030331

Edited February 3, 2009 by citylife

[101_ce]

Earlier in this thread there were comments about high-end retailers coming....what happened there? Did they withdraw? Not trying to start a war again, but an outdoor center with a Costco and a Rooms-to-Go only is NOT upscale.

I agree with you. Although it still could happen. St. Johns Town Center is anchored by Target & Dillard's and they have The Cheesecake Factory, Kate Spade, Louis Vuitton, etc. I would really rather see them at Haywood Mall though. I don't think Magnolia will get high end retailers. Besides, Greenville is so hot in the summer, I am sure people will hate going to Magnolia then. I hope Haywood adds another level to compete. All of the upscale retailers were looking for a space at Haywood, but there is none available. So they had to go to Magnolia. I hope they end up at Haywood after the expansion (I at least I hope they will expand!)

Edited February 12, 2009 by ct36

[beyonce245]

I agree with you. Although it still could happen. St. Johns Town Center is anchored by Target & Dillard's and they have The Cheesecake Factory, Kate Spade, Louis Vuitton, etc. I would really rather see them at Haywood Mall though. I don't think it will get high end retailers. Besides, Greenville is so hot in the summer, I am sure people will hate going in to then. I hope Haywood adds another level to compete. All of the upscale retailers were looking for a space at Haywood, but there is none available. So they had to go to Magnolia. I hope they end up at Haywood after the expansion (I at least I hope they will expand!)

I believe the rumor about an expansion at Haywood was debunked on another forum. Also, St. Johns Town Center may have lots of stores that sound nice and are probably out of most of our price ranges, but Jacksonville is truly the armpit of Florida. Proceed at your own risk!

[101_ce]

I believe the rumor about an expansion at Haywood was debunked on another forum. Also, St. Johns Town Center may have lots of stores that sound nice and are probably out of most of our price ranges, but Jacksonville is truly the armpit of Florida. Proceed at your own risk!

I know that the Haywood expansion was a rumor. I just wish it was not.

[mallguy]

I hope Haywood adds another level to compete. All of the upscale retailers were looking for a space at Haywood, but there is none available. So they had to go to Magnolia. I hope they end up at Haywood after the expansion (I at least I hope they will expand!)

Source, please?

"All of the upscale retailers": Every single upscale retailer imaginable, or just certain ones?

"but there is none available": 10-20% of in-line space in a typical mall opens up each year due to lease expirations- absolutely zero did at Haywood? That seems odd.

"they had to go to Magnolia": so then why has construction on upscale retail space at Magnolia not started, or why could Haywood not expand?

[101_ce]

Source, please?

"All of the upscale retailers": Every single upscale retailer imaginable, or just certain ones?

"but there is none available": 10-20% of in-line space in a typical mall opens up each year due to lease expirations- absolutely zero did at Haywood? That seems odd.

"they had to go to Magnolia": so then why has construction on upscale retail space at Magnolia not started, or why could Haywood not expand?

I meant all of the upscale retailers wanting to open in Greenville. A lot of stores such as Apple, Urban Outfitters were looking at the Haywood Mall for a location, but at the time, there was none avaliable. Currently, there is two spaces avaliable, neither suitable for an upscale retailer. There is a large store, but it is next to Sears, & the other one is the size of Starbucks, so nothing (upscale) could go there. The retail space at Magnolia has not started because of the economy. Haywood Mall does very good, but there is not an expansion planned.

[gman430]

Source, please?

"All of the upscale retailers": Every single upscale retailer imaginable, or just certain ones?

"but there is none available": 10-20% of in-line space in a typical mall opens up each year due to lease expirations- absolutely zero did at Haywood? That seems odd.

"they had to go to Magnolia": so then why has construction on upscale retail space at Magnolia not started, or why could Haywood not expand?

Last time I checked which was a month or so ago, there were two-three empty retail spaces at Haywood Mall. Apple is one of those upscale retailers who wanted to go to Haywood Mall, but none of the empty spaces then or currently fit their demographics. Even when the economy improves, i'm not so sure it's going to be easy for Magnolia Park to get built with several of the proposed tenants going elsewhere including Ruth's Chris and Chipotle. Hope i'm wrong.

Edited February 21, 2009 by citylife

[gman430]

New site plan is now up on Menin's website: http://www.menindevelopment.com/magnolia2.html

[INFOMAN]

http://www.menindevelopment.com/PPT/MagnoliaPark2.4.pdf

Check out page 5-9 pages!!!

[Galley]

It appears there is no way to get from one side to the other. You know how folks hate to walk more than 300 ft.!

[BigTone]

My wife and I were at the movies last weekend and was telling her that imax was gonna be going in. The lady in front of me overheard this and told me that they are not now. She works for the cinema and told us that they missed the dimensions by a foot to be an imax theatre. Anyone know if this is true? From the link above, it says that imax is still going in. This is just what one person said, just curious to see if its still coming.